Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
|
|
I had several enjoyable observing sessions earlier this week with my 22-inch Dob from our midtown Kansas City backyard. See a picture of my observing setup on this CN thread.
One object that surprised me was M107, a globular cluster in Ophiuchus. This is not a difficult object from dark sites, but I had difficulty locating it from my backyard even with 22-inches of aperture. Here is my logbook entry for the object:
Quote:
M107, Ophiuchus, 6/29/2008, KCMO, 22-inch, 31mmT5, 22T4, 17T4, 22/17 w/2xPM, T:6/S:5 This was a much more challenging object than I had anticipated. I almost gave up on it. I finally spotted it with the 31mm (82.9x). After figuring out precisely where it was, I was able to see it at many magnification levels. It had a grainy appearance in the 31mmT5, and I was able to resolve quite a few stars with the 22T4/2xPM (203x) combo. Maybe as many as two dozen winking in averted. I could not fully resolve the cluster even with the 17T4 & 2xPM (263x). It is a loose GC with minimal central brightening and lots of faint nebulosity. A fine but subtle object.
Over the years I haven't logged too many entries for this object. My first observation of it was on June 5, 2000 from a dark site with a G9.25. I described it as quite faint and expressed skepticism regarding Stephen O'Meara's value of 7.8 mag for it.
I found a second observation for the cluster, logged during my first observing session with my C11 on July 21, 2001. I described it as loose with some central brightening and 10-12 stars winking in and out of averted vision in a generally grainy patch of nebulosity. I also noted I could see the object in my 50mm finder in averted vision.
I haven't found any log entries for observations of M107 from my backyard. It seems surprising to me that the June 29 observation is the first time I have looked at it in an urban sky, but perhaps it is. I plan to try it with a few smaller scopes to see if it can be seen at all with less aperture from my backyard.
--------------------
Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
|
Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1648
|
|
Nice report! I'll have to dig up my notes... suburban skies (LM around 4.5), 6-10" dobs, and see what I saw. I do remember seeing it.
-----
Ah, dug it up. Found my remarks on the back of an Astrocard that covered M107. I wrote, "amorphous, no real resolution". It was positioned in the center of four stars, "like the cross piece of a kite". Best view was in a 14mm Pentax XL, at about 70x. That was in a 7" dob.
|
CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
   
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1811
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
|
|
Whenever I think I'm going to complain about cloudy skies, I only have to read reports like this to realize how lucky I am to have finally moved from an urban area (Chicago) to wonderfully dark skies in North Georgia.
I was just out last night observing all the Messier globs in the Orphiucus/Scorpio region and all of them were readily visible in my 10x42mm binoculars, including m107.
I do think that knowing precisely where items are helps a lot when LP intrudes - scanning around approximately where the item ought to be is very different from looking at a FOV and knowing that the object is in the center of the FOV. I often look for these items when the moon is up (LLP = Lunar Light Pollution) and it sure adds a huge element of difficulty!
Sometimes posts like this annoy people: "oh, you were having problems finding M1024 in your 60" DOB? Gee it was naked eye object from where I live...." , but I make these posts more for encouragement to viewers in urban areas, to hopefully find it possible for them to go out to the nearest dark skies - it really is worth the effort!!
--------------------
|
JakeT93
member
Reged: 06/28/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Williamstown, NJ
|
|
I'm in a Suburban, and on a humid night, M107 was visible in my 10"-barely. But, I aint complainin', I couldn't dream of spotting it with my old DS.
-------------------- -Jake the Snake
My equipment:
Orion DSE 10" Light Bucket!
10x50 Finder and ebay bracket
40mm GSO Plossl
32mm Celestron Plossl
2x Antares Barlow
25mm and 6.7mm Meade 3000 Plossls
Orion Explorer II 10mm and 17mm Kellners
Orion SkyGlow Ultrablock
Antares ND25
70 M's Obsreved
All Planets seen
|
Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2098
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
|
|
Quote:
I had several enjoyable observing sessions earlier this week with my 22-inch Dob from our midtown Kansas City backyard. One object that surprised me was M107, a globular cluster in Ophiuchus. This is not a difficult object from dark sites, but I had difficulty locating it from my backyard even with 22-inches of aperture ...
M107 has low surface brightness for a globular cluster. That, coupled with the fact that it's well south of the celestial equator, makes it challenging from light-polluted sites at mid-northern latitudes.
Looking over my notes, I find that M107 and M68 are the only Messier globulars that I couldn't see through my 70-mm refractor from my local urban park. And even through my 7-inch Dob, I logged M107 as "difficult with averted vision" from that park.
By contrast, M107 is not especially hard through 15x45 binoculars at a dark site.
M68 is even tougher because it has lower surface brightness yet, and it's much farther south.
-------------------- Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
|
Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
|
|
Quote:
Whenever I think I'm going to complain about cloudy skies, I only have to read reports like this to realize how lucky I am to have finally moved from an urban area (Chicago) to wonderfully dark skies in North Georgia.
Yeah, but whenever I think about complaining, I hear from someone in Boston, Philly, or the like, who say they would drive 30 minutes to get to a site as good as my backyard! 
Quote:
I do think that knowing precisely where items are helps a lot when LP intrudes - scanning around approximately where the item ought to be is very different from looking at a FOV and knowing that the object is in the center of the FOV.
This is absolutely correct. I just didn't anticipate the problem with this particular object. If I hadn't found it, I would have made a custom chart with MegaStar and hopped to it. I know this is really twisted, but sometimes, for fun, I pinpoint the location of an object I know I can't possibly see from my backyard, and think to myself, Yep, it would be right there if it weren't for all this darn LP!
Regarding dark sky sites, our club owns a fabu site in Butler, Missouri (with built in electrical hookups for RVs, no less!). Plus, I have a good friend with his own DSS observatory and have located a few other observing spots I sometimes visit with other observing buddies. So, I do enjoy going to dark sky sites, but I enjoy urban observing just as much. I have a lot of fun figuring out what can be seen from my own backyard and am constantly amazed by everything that is visible. And, of course, from a convenience point of view, nothing beats it. No travel time, no GAS MILEAGE to worry about, not worries about sky conditions (frustration, of course, but no sweating whether the trip will be worth it), minor hassles if I forgot to bring something -- just another trip into the house, shed, whatever. If something isn't on the meridean until 3:30 am, I can get up at 3:00 to see it. Lot's of advantages. Oh, and dew. Let's not forget that. In Missouri, dew is a horrific problem at dark sky sites. It is almost never a factor in town.
You know what would really be cool? (Strong hint to Tony F. about a possible S&T publication ) An URBAN sky atlas. It could include DSOs observable from urban/surban areas, with stuff like MUCH better coverage of double stars, variable stars, carbon stars, and stars of interest for other reasons (Bernard's star, for example.) Of course, globular clusters, open clusters, some galaxies, some emission nebula, and planetary nebula. Galaxies generally aren't worth the trouble, the challenge is whether or not you can see anything at all. Forget detail for all but the very brightest. Planetaries are surprisingly rewarding thanks to OIII and UHC filters: a much better alternative to galaxies in most cases. Open clusters are nearly as good.
Norton's is the only currently published atlas that addresses double stars AT ALL!!! What an oversight, considering how many amateur astronomers DO observe from their light polluted yards and balconies.
Okay. I'll stop ranting. (For now.)
--------------------
Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
|
Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
|
|
Tony:
As far south as M107 was, on the same evening I easily observed M9 and NGC 6356. NGC 6342 was a little more challenging, but not as tough as M107. All three GCs are further south. This is a nice triplet arranged around an attractive triangle of guide stars. The northern most star of the triangle is a fine double, Burnham 126, with 6.0 and 7.3 components and a separation of 2.4 seconds in 1995. The separation was measured at 1.6 seconds in 1875. The PA for both observations is reported as 262 degrees. I guess that means one of the observations is in error or the star isn't actually a binary. I didn't make specific notes about the component colors, which I sometimes do to compare against existing double star catalogs like the WDS. On occasion, one finds spectral classes misreported. The components might both be listed as A2, for example, while they show an obvious color contrast.
NGC 6309, the Box Nebula, is at about the same declination and was bright in direct vision and showed considerable detail. Of course, it is a smaller object with much higher surface brightness. Plus, I was using a UHC filter to observe it.
Your point about atmospheric extinction under light polluted skies is a good one, though. The best area to observe is the zenith. Not only are objects easier to see, but one doesn't have to worry about chimneys getting in the way...
--------------------
Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
|
Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
|
|
Jake:
Thanks for your observation. I'm going to try to see if I can spot it with my XT-8 on the next clear night.
--------------------
Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
|
Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
|
|
And before anyone takes the trouble to point this out: Yes, I know the Herald-Bobroff includes DS symbols indicating relative separation for multiple stars, but it doesn't list identification (like Struve numbers) for them. Variable stars AND multiple stars are indicated on all the major atlases, but with no identification for multiples and rarely any for variables. And frequently, for reasons which totally escape me, atlases will indicate doubles with impossibly close separations (less than .5 arc seconds, etc.) Like a casual observer is going to notice a sub-arc second double while searching for a DSO!
--------------------
Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
|
stevek
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/16/06
Posts: 1229
Loc: west michigan
|
|
Fiske - loved your comment " I know this is really twisted, but sometimes, for fun, I pinpoint the location of an object I know I can't possibly see from my backyard, and think to myself, Yep, it would be right there if it weren't for all this darn LP!" I too play that game. The words of someone who enjoys the hunt as well as the 'kill'. IMHO, it helps one get to know and understand the night sky and how my scope will 'relate' to it. Clear skies... Steve
-------------------- DSO 8" f6 DOB w/ 8x50 RACI & 2"Crayford
1958 Sears Discoverer 76mm Refractor
GSO SV 30mm 2",21mm Hyp,13mm Strat,BO/TMB ver2-6mm & 4mm
1.25"Filters: DGM-NPB, 25%ND
1.25" plossls: 25mm,20mm,15mm,9mm
Orion 2X Shorty Barlow
Garrett Gemini LW 11x56mm binocs
BTG-10 4.0mW green laser pointer
"What is that burning in the sky? Tell me y'all..." Jeff Beck/Jan Hammer
|
Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2098
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
|
|
Quote:
You know what would really be cool? (Strong hint to Tony F. about a possible S&T publication ) An URBAN sky atlas. It could include DSOs observable from urban/surban areas, with stuff like MUCH better coverage of double stars, variable stars, carbon stars, and stars of interest for other reasons (Bernard's star, for example.)
The Pocket Sky Atlas labels many, many carbon stars and double stars. How about just using it and ignoring the galaxies?
-------------------- Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
|
Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
|
|
Tony:
You know, I have been looking for a reason to buy one of those... 
Thanks!
--------------------
Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
|
Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
   
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 6285
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
|
|
The Pocket Sky Atlas is very handy and is great for casual observing.
Dave Mitsky
-------------------- Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
|
|
4 registered and 4 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: matt, Olivier Biot
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 252
|
|
|
|
|
|
|