Martin O
member
Reged: 08/09/05
Posts: 67
Loc: Malmoe, Sweden
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I just bought a Minox 8x25 macroscope and I found it was Argon filled.
Usually bin's are filled with nitrogen and I know argon is an inert gas, but are there other benefits with argon?
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http://www.kikarforum.se
The Swedish binocular community
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10029
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Martin ,
The rightfully respected Dr.Holger Merlitz once stated that he knew of no useful advantages of ( the more expensive ) Argon over Nitrogen .
However , one ( admittedly sales - pitch standard ) article I once read from Leupold suggested the advantages of an Argon / Krypton mixture ( admittedly not pure Argon ) were twofold .
The assertion was that the A/K mixture ALMOST eliminates the effects of thermal shock .
Also , apparantly Argon/Krypton molecules are significantly larger than nitrogen molecules, reducing the diffusion of gasses sealed inside , even more .
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Martin O
member
Reged: 08/09/05
Posts: 67
Loc: Malmoe, Sweden
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Thanks for the information, Kenny.
I Was also thinking about the molecule size.
As an example, when i inflate my bicycle tubes with CO2 they will not hold there pressure as long as with coventional air. I'll think it have the reason with the molecule size.
The theory of thermal shock effect is wery intresting with this type of "mini scope" I almost carrying in a warm pocket.
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http://www.kikarforum.se
The Swedish binocular community
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ronharper
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 957
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Of all binocular buzzwords, gas-filled must be the greatest test of faith. Ultimately, it is not so much what is in your bino, but what you THINK is in your bino, that determines happiness.
Has it occurred by now to manufacturers that we might be easily duped on this one? Might they have saved a little time and effort, and increased their margins a bit, by neglecting to do a good job, or any job at all, of pure gas filling? Might a seal that holds water out leak a bit of much more mobile gas? Is my early edition 7x50 FMT-SX still full of pure nitrogen, after 25 or 30 years? Do bino shops reassemble repairs in inert-gas glove boxes, requiring the tech to handle optics wearing big thick rubber gloves, all the time fighting an overpressure? Any amateur atomic spectroscopists in the house?
Yes, I have doubts. But, I will try not to think such thoughts again, and don't you guys think them either.
Ron
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1537
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
I just bought a Minox 8x25 macroscope and I found it was Argon filled. are there other benefits with argon?
According to Minox, "Due to its larger molecules, argon gas has a slower rate of diffusion than the conventional nitrogen, which guarantees that the super gas remains inside the binoculars for much longer than is the case with nitrogen."
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Martin O
member
Reged: 08/09/05
Posts: 67
Loc: Malmoe, Sweden
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It's late here in Sweden and i'm tired. Hope they never fill bin's with hydrogen. Carrying my binocular like a baloon 
But it may be a positive effect on my heavy nitrogen filled 25x100 
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http://www.kikarforum.se
The Swedish binocular community
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ronharper
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 957
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" guarantees that the super gas remains inside the binoculars for much longer than is the case with nitrogen."
See, "much longer", ie, NOT FOREVER! What'd I tell you?
Ron
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1537
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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NOTHING IS FOREVER IN THIS LIFE.  
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Ragaisis
member
Reged: 05/16/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Mequon, WI
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My Vortex Razors are Argon filled. When I called the company and asked about the benefits, they gave me the sales pitch of, "It lasts much longer than Nitrogen so it preserves the life of the binoculars."
Then I asked if they had a problem with nitrogen escaping that they needed argon? The lady laughed and said that instead of just being able to pass the nitrogen filled binoculars on to my kids, I'd be able to pass the argon filled binoculars on to my grandkids. There really wasn't a problem that needed to be solved.
So I left it there...
Chris
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Televue TV85 APO
Vortex Razor 8x42
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 468
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The nitrogen purging is mostly advertising hype. Where are the inlet and outlet fittings? Are there well lubricated o-rings or other suitable seals?
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12332
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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photos and descriptions I've seen for nitrogen filling seem to dismiss the need for fittings.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Roadbike
member
Reged: 12/02/06
Posts: 67
Loc: Virginia, USA
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My understanding is that argon, nitrogen, etc., all are solutions to the same problem and that there is no benefit to one over the other. Since no seal is perfect, the contents are not under pressure and no provision is made to refresh the gaseous charge I have to wonder if the benefits of argon over nitrogen are not gaseous as well.
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Falcon Birder
super member
Reged: 04/16/07
Posts: 111
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I am still waiting for one of the company to come out to claim Xenon filled binoculars are superior than Ar binoculars. 
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Zen-Ray SUMMIT 10x42 WP
Swaroski 8.5x42 EL
Leica 8x32 Ultravid
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1215
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Hi EdZ,
I don't understand your brief statement on fittings. I would love to know that website. Of all the binoculars that I have repaired/thrown the h___ out, all had a purge system and fittings for the introduction of the gases, whatever the chemical composition.
I'm just curious, because I am not aware of this. If you have time, I will appreciate a short response. Thanks.
Best regards,
Dave.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12332
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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It was explained to me that nitrogen is simply filled thru an open end of the binocular by holding the binocular upright, open end down, and inserting a hose. Since the nitrogen rises, it pushes out air but does not escape and then that end is capped.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1215
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Hi EdZ,
Thanks for your reply. Sounds good to me, but, I guess, the tricky part is to get the end caps on before the purged mixture changes or recombines.
I have always found this proc. to be somewhat perplexing. For the few times I've done this, I have done it in error, apparently (in the lab). Thanks again. I use a small canister of the appropriate gas, but it is getting harder and harder to get it shipped anymore!
Best regards,
Dave.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12332
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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this process was described long time ago in this forum. A few select searches may turn up the old discussions.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Falcon Birder
super member
Reged: 04/16/07
Posts: 111
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I believe they use a glovebox or enclosed apparatus to purge the binoculars in the N2 atmosphere before sealing it off.
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Zen-Ray SUMMIT 10x42 WP
Swaroski 8.5x42 EL
Leica 8x32 Ultravid
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