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JakeT93
member
Reged: 06/28/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Williamstown, NJ
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More faint fuzzy things tonight, and my 60th M! I found, in order, M94, M106, and M102 . I'm beginning to realize how differant each galaxy is. Some are big, small, faint, bright, face or edge on. M106 was big and a little faint, M94 was bright, almost thought is was a star, 'til I saw the glow, and M102 was edge on maybe? That was a neat galaxy. M102 was my 60th Messier. Only 50 to go. Might be hard though. Also tried M101, but failed, I bet I came over it, but didn't see it. I can see just about anything I want with the Bucket!  Gonna try M55 again.
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-Jake the Snake
My equipment:
Orion DSE 10" Light Bucket!
10x50 Finder and ebay bracket
40mm GSO Plossl
32mm Celestron Plossl
2x Antares Barlow
25mm and 6.7mm Meade 3000 Plossls
Orion Explorer II 10mm and 17mm Kellners
Orion SkyGlow Ultrablock
Antares ND25
70 M's Obsreved
All Planets seen
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PeterSurma
member
Reged: 08/24/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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You should be able to see 101 easily with your 10" (it's large and low surface brightness though - so use a large field eyepiece first + then drill in) - PROVIDED you have good skies !!! Sky is much more important than anything else for galaxies. Good sky = see stars of mag 5.5 + fainter...
Good skies + good luck,
Peter
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Web: http://www.eyes4skies.de/home_EnglishVersion.htm
Edited by PeterSurma (07/11/08 05:59 AM)
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JakeT93
member
Reged: 06/28/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Williamstown, NJ
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Up in the Poconos, it's a yellow bortle, about 6 and fainter?
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-Jake the Snake
My equipment:
Orion DSE 10" Light Bucket!
10x50 Finder and ebay bracket
40mm GSO Plossl
32mm Celestron Plossl
2x Antares Barlow
25mm and 6.7mm Meade 3000 Plossls
Orion Explorer II 10mm and 17mm Kellners
Orion SkyGlow Ultrablock
Antares ND25
70 M's Obsreved
All Planets seen
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Quote:
More faint fuzzy things tonight, and my 60th M! I found, in order, M94, M106, and M102 . I'm beginning to realize how differant each galaxy is. Some are big, small, faint, bright, face or edge on. M106 was big and a little faint, M94 was bright, almost thought is was a star, 'til I saw the glow, and M102 was edge on maybe? That was a neat galaxy. M102 was my 60th Messier. Only 50 to go. Might be hard though. Also tried M101, but failed, I bet I came over it, but didn't see it. I can see just about anything I want with the Bucket! Gonna try M55 again.
Congratulations on the finds!
There is a dramatically edge-on galaxy near M102, called NGC 5907. (M102 also known as NGC 5866). I'm wondering based on your description if you found 5907 by mistake. You might want to find some pictures and compare to your memory. For example on the SEDS website or using the Microsoft Worldwide Telescope free program.
Anyway, both 5907 and 5866 M102 are great. I like the 5907 a little better.
And M101 is large and fainter, nothing like M94 at all. I'm sure you will find it soon.
Good hunting!
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16" f/4.9 dob
Tele Vue Plossls 32,25,20,15,11
13 Nagler T6
10.5 Pentax XL
Brandon 32, 16
12.5 UO ortho, 9 Circle T ortho
2x TV Barlow
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PeterSurma
member
Reged: 08/24/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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What I forgot: looking for galaxies (+ finding them ! :-) happens with overview eyepieces of course. But make sure you drill in also with all the hi-magnification eyepieces you got. It helps fighting down bright skies ! (because photons are spread across larger area + thus the surface brightness of sky goes down). Galaxies can stick out of the sky pretty nicely at high magnifications. So don't miss the detail view, once you've got them in your field of view !!!
Dark skies are absolutely essential for galaxies. Make some effort to get a REALLY dark sky at least once to check how extremely strong this effect is. You'll never wanna miss this again ever ... (so this is also a 'warning' in some sense :-)
Good luck,
Peter
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Web: http://www.eyes4skies.de/home_EnglishVersion.htm
Edited by PeterSurma (07/11/08 02:33 PM)
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NerfMonkey
super member
Reged: 06/12/08
Posts: 187
Loc: NE Ohio
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M94 is one of my favorite galaxies because of how bright it is. Easy too, forming a triangle with Cor Caroli and Chara. Good job on finding 60 Messiers, I've had my Z12 for 6 months and only seen 25-30. M101 also gives me trouble.
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Mike
71 Messiers
149 total DSOs
6 planets
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Thomas_N
member
Reged: 07/07/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Germany, Bavarian Forest
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Quote:
What I forgot: looking for galaxies (+ finding them ! :-) happens with overview eyepieces of course. But make sure you drill in also with all the hi-magnification eyepieces you got. It helps fighting down bright skies ! (because photons are spread across larger area + thus the surface brightness of sky goes down). Galaxies can stick out of the sky pretty nicely at high magnifications. So don't miss the detail view, once you've got them in your field of view !!!
Hi Peter,
not only the (apparent) surface brightness of the sky decreases but so does the apparent surface brightness of the nebula. This is because the same amount of light is gathered but spread over a larger angle.
Still, the contrast becomes better: Although the nebulae appears dimmer per unit square, it appears bigger and the same amount of light shines in your eyes whereas there is less skylight (since we see a amaller portion of the sky at larger magnification). So far so good, but if the sky is too bright, magnification won't help either because the scattered light coming from the direction of the galaxy will outshine the galaxy...
One shouldn't overdo magnification though or else the nebula becomes *too* dim. BTW: I heard (from an avid galaxy-observer) that 2mm exit pupil should be a good value for observing. That means eyepieces of 2*5mm = 10mm for F/5 scopes or 16mm for F/8 scopes.
Thomas
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PeterSurma
member
Reged: 08/24/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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Hi Thomas,
I know my simple argument is only strictly valid for stars (and as long as their image remains smaller than one resolution element in the human eye). On the other hand I think it's pretty hard explaining our common experience - namely that galaxies benefit from magnification !!! - by physics + geometry only. The human eye is not a CCD: not linear (there may be threshold effects), there's no well-defined pixel size (several cells add up their signals depending on the angular distance from the optical axis), the eye itself adapts to the amount of light it sees (by biochemistry and by opening the pupil), the brain does a lot of image processing + pattern/shape recognition as well ... etc etc... So rankly, I tend to doubt a bit it's easy to prove by pure geometry... ??? Do you really think so ? Somehow I still really wonder what the real major effects are here ... But well, in the end I am also content by just the matter of fact from experience, I must admit... :-)
Peter
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Web: http://www.eyes4skies.de/home_EnglishVersion.htm
Edited by PeterSurma (07/12/08 05:39 PM)
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Thomas_N
member
Reged: 07/07/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Germany, Bavarian Forest
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I don't know either - I think blocking out superfluous light is a good idea and also seeing a larger image helps us see things more easily. But of course, it is subtle. The eye-brain complex plays a lot of tricks on us ("optical illusions") - so it is not just geometry or linear algebra.
Thomas
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PeterSurma
member
Reged: 08/24/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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Yeah, I once read an article on this in the web, but can't seem to find it... It was pretty sophisticated...
Peter
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Web: http://www.eyes4skies.de/home_EnglishVersion.htm
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