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MMICKELSAdministrator
Aluminum Knight
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Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 24261
Loc: The Land of Shake and Bake
Dumb Question
      #2513561 - 07/11/08 08:14 PM

How do they know a meteorite is a meteorite? I told ya up front it was a dumb question.

--------------------
Mark


"The only thing wrong with immortality is that it tends to go on forever."

Herb Caen






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csa/montanaModerator
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Re: Dumb Question new [Re: MMICKELS]
      #2513604 - 07/11/08 08:39 PM

Mark, not a dumb question; are you referring to buyers, or the ones that classify them?

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Carol


AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
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Lost in Space
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Reged: 11/14/04
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Re: Dumb Question new [Re: csa/montana]
      #2513645 - 07/11/08 08:59 PM

Here are some links for you. Better to get it straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.

Ed

Portland State Univ

Washington Univ in St Louis

--------------------
Ed

Televue TV76
Coronado SM60/BF15
Meteorite Collection
Member of IMCA - http://www.imca.cc

“A graduation ceremony is an event where the commencement speaker tells thousands of students dressed in identical caps and gowns that 'individuality' is the key to success." - Robert Orben


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Re: Dumb Question new [Re: Lost in Space]
      #2513794 - 07/11/08 10:26 PM

Mark,

In a nutshell, chemistry.

When dealing with "unclassifieds", it's a matter of experience and provenance.

There are elements and minerals in meteorites that do not match Earthly chemistries. The presence of nickel is a strong indicator of meteoritic origin. Sure, nickel is present in the Earth, but most of it is deep down near the mantle - and what is present in the mines of the Earth's crust does not appear in the same form as meteoritic nickel-iron. In other words, meteorites (stone or iron) do not match any Earthly metallic ores.

Some stony meteorites can resemble Earth rocks - especially older weathered meteorites which have lost their distinctive fusion crust. In these cases, the presence of nickel is the major determining factor. Some Earthly rocks can mimic stony meteorites - but these rocks are so rare, that they are valuable just like a meteorite. And even these are less dense than meteoritic stones. A keen eye, a magnet, a beaker of water, and a scale can weed out the meteorites from a pile of suspect specimens. Streak testing is also used - a common practice amongst rock and mineral hounds.

When dealing with unknown specimens, it's best to rely on a reputable dealer with credentials. IMCA or Meteoritical Society membership is a good sign that the dealer takes their business seriously. I have bought and sold alot of meteorites in my time, and I have never purchased a bogus rock (or "meteorwrong") from an IMCA or MS member.

Finding meteorites in the field is a whole different ballgame. Determining whether a specimen bought from a dealer or another collector is genuine is relatively easy because the specimen has been vetted to some degree. But, going out into the field and identifying a meteorite from a dry stream bed that is strewn with dark colored rocks, is more difficult. Some Earthly rocks like basalts not only look like a meteorite, but they often exhibit magnetism which furthers confuses the matter. In such a case, the experience of the hunter comes into play. Suspect but promising specimens can be filed open with a diamond file to reveal a small window into the interior of the specimen. This window is then studied with a loupe or field microscope - the presence of chondrules or metal flecks is a giveaway that the specimen is meteoritic. Which is something else I should have mentioned earlier - CHONDRULES. Chondrules are another form of mineral that does not appear on Earth. Chondrules were formed under conditions not present on Earth at any time during it's history. To see tiny little perfect spheres of various minerals suspended in a surrounding matrix is "unearthly". To see chondrules, one must usually cut or file open the specimen - unless it's very weathered, in which case the matrix may be exposed and the chondrules readily visible. Chondrules range in size from several microns to several millimeters across and come in a variety of colors and compositions.

BTW, did you find the print out I enclosed in the box? It answers the "how do you know" question, but if it doesn't, then feel free to let me know - because I could use the feedback. You are the first person to read that brochure, and I want to know if it gets the definition across to someone with little or no meteorite experience.

I hope this helps.

The links Ed posted are great places to start as well.

Regards and clear skies,

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & Celestial Irons


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MMICKELSAdministrator
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Re: Dumb Question new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #2513838 - 07/11/08 10:46 PM

Mike I haven't read through everything you sent me yet. I've been getting a hard time from the guys at work who I've shown the collection to. It's all good natured fun, but I wasn't able to answer the main question of "how do you know it's really ameteorite". I've also been told that NWA XXXX means it came from Northwest Airlines!

--------------------
Mark


"The only thing wrong with immortality is that it tends to go on forever."

Herb Caen






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Glassthrower
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Re: Dumb Question new [Re: MMICKELS]
      #2513863 - 07/11/08 10:57 PM

I get some of that from the locals around here at times. There is a big misconception floating around that meteorites are only found in sealed clean-rooms at NASA facilities. Many people confuse meteorites with lunar samples brought back by the Apollo program. Most people aren't aware that the Earth is peppered with meteorites daily and many of them strike populated areas. Ask the young woman whose Chevy Malibu got smashed by the Peekskill meteorite if the stone that fell from the sky was really a space rock.

I often send the skeptics to Wikipedia first. The Wiki article on meteorites has some good basic facts and is a good layman's primer for meteorites :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite

Our own Tom (Pegster) is having some meteorites I sold him analyzed at a university lab right now as we speak. It will be interesting to hear the exact results of the type and compositions.

Regards and clear skies,

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & Celestial Irons


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MMICKELSAdministrator
Aluminum Knight
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Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 24261
Loc: The Land of Shake and Bake
Re: Dumb Question new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #2513877 - 07/11/08 11:07 PM

Thanks Mike. This is one of the learning curves that I'm starting out on the bottom of at the moment. I hope to get to use the SEM on the Canyon Diablos and post a pic or two for folks to see.

--------------------
Mark


"The only thing wrong with immortality is that it tends to go on forever."

Herb Caen






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