JasonNB
member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 98
Loc: Spring Hill, TN
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I have spent 18 months with my Z8 (8", F5.9) so far and have enjoyed it, but I am at a crossroad. My EP collection is basic and I have started losing interest a bit as I feel a bit frustrated. My complaints are narrow FOV, some haziness in the ep's, and challenging eye relief on a couple. I currently have:
4mm Zhumell Plossl - ER makes it hard to use, but I like the mag level
6mm Zhumell Plossl - Like the mag, ER a challenge, don't use it as the optics seem hazy
9mm Zhumell Plossl - Favorite EP for planetary
12.5. Zhumell Plossl - Like this one, just don't use it that much
20mm no name Rank Kellner - Really enjoy this one, seems so much sharper than the plossls
30mm 2" GSO Kellner - Love this one
32mm 1.25 Zhumell plossl - like this one too
Also have a GSO barlow and a few inexpensive filters
I really enjoy searching for everything in the sky, planets, nebula, clusters, etc. I enjoy looking for clouds and other details of planets.
Another consideration is that I have two observing buddies, one is 4yo, the other is 2 and will soon start wanting to have a look. I do a few outings each year for kids and adults at church.
I had originally settled on picking up maybe 8 and 17mm hyperions at ~$240 total. Not really in budget, and I have concerns about having $120 ep's around the kids. While I could limit them to the plossl's, I would prefer to let them see the good stuff.
After doing a ton of reading here, I am considering some ep's from the AGENA\OWL\Expanse EWA set, likely the 6, 9, and maybe 15. Reviews are less than great for the 20. Also considering 1-2 selections from the Astronomics Titan\Agena SWA\q70 line, maybe a 15 and\0r 20. This collection would be a bit more budget friendly to build.
I'm also curious about the various ED pieces.
I'm pretty sure the Hyperions would be ok in my scope, but how about the others?
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Zhumell 8" Dob
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naglertized
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/10/07
Posts: 1515
Loc: Jacksonville Florida
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My children 4 and 7 had no trouble viewing Saturn with a BO/TMB 6mm. Planetary. They are relatively inexpensive approx. $45-$55/ea.
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Clinton
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Lamb0
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 668
Loc: Fairbury, Nebraska
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A really wide field eyepiece, like the Garrett Optical SuperWide Angle 38mm 69° might be $80 well spent, too. 
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John "Have eyepiece - will travel!"
8" f/5 Dob w/2.14" sec in a 12" alum tube 'The Mortar' - w/PCorr 2° TFoV @ 36.5X ~70% illum *NICE*
Typical eyepieces: 32 Burg, 24 Pan, 20T5, 5-8 SW, Others ALL 2": Pcorr, 2X PwrMt, Ast H-b, Lum UHC + OIII
60mm $50 Walmart Special in training - aka "Backpack Observatory"
Minolta Activa 12x50 , Steiner 15X80
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square_peg
Postmaster
Reged: 03/26/04
Posts: 23797
Loc: Maple Valley, WA
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I'd start with something that produces close to a 2mm exit pupil in your scope. Maybe a 13mm Hyperion.
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Tom (Pegster)
DSH-8 (GSO Dob)
15x70 Oberwerks
SVP 100 f/6 achro
WO 66 Petzval
Sears Discoverer EQ 60/900
8x42 Regals
History is Philosophy teaching by examples.
Thucydides
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Hermie
super member
Reged: 04/20/05
Posts: 145
Loc: On the way to SYD
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I have a BO/TMB 6, and can recommend it for higher power - definitely good value! I had ordered others but they haven't arrived. I believe the rest of this series are pretty good, but you will have to be patient!
When you know what you want, watch the "shop & swap" and be patient, and you will save even more!
Hermie
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APM 105/650
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JasonNB
member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 98
Loc: Spring Hill, TN
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Ok, so I've added the BO/TMB 6 to my shopping list.
I really like the Hyperion 13 as well, but the allure of cheap SWA glass is strong....
I got my scope out over the weekend and cleaned the mirroe and re-collimated. I also cleaned all my ep's. Even with Jupiter moderately low to the horizon, I was able to get a decent look down to the 4mm plossl I have, but the haze/glare around it was annoying (showed in other ep's too. Addin the barlow to any ep made it 3x worse.
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Zhumell 8" Dob
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AZStarGuy
super member
Reged: 05/05/08
Posts: 152
Loc: Scottsdale AZ
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Was the haze unusual or is it always present when looking at bright objects? Haze is usually light scatter from eyepiece construction issues or something else causing scatter in the optical train. Sometimes high thin clound can present the same effect...
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Ron
8" f6 Eq Newt
24PAN, 13T6,7T1,6RAD,5RAD,4 & 3.2 Planetaries
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JasonNB
member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 98
Loc: Spring Hill, TN
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It's always there. Some ep's worse than others.
Would flocking the scope help?
Correction, the 4-12 plossls all show some of it, the others not so muck. The two Kellners are the clearest.
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Zhumell 8" Dob
Edited by JasonNB (07/18/08 10:37 PM)
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Darenwh
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 648
Loc: Saint Francis, WI
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Quite likely flocking would help. You could flock the entire tube (can be quite a chore) or just the few feet near each end of the tube or just across from the eyepiece. Every little bit helps but flocking across from the focuser is really the most important thing.
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Daren
St. Francis, WI
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BillP
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/06
Posts: 2207
Loc: Vienna, VA
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Quote:
...I really like the Hyperion 13 as well, but the allure of cheap SWA glass is strong....
The 9mm and 6mm Owl Enhanced Superwides are just fine. The 15 will not be as good as the 13 or 17 Hyperion by a long shot in your scope. 24mm and 13mm Hyperions, plus 9mm and 6mm Owls would be a nice step up from your current stall IMO.
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250mm f/4.7 Orion XT10i Dobsonian
102mm f/8.0 Tak TSA Super-APO
66mm f/5.9 WO ZenithStar SD APO
40mm f/10 Coronado P.S.T.
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Joe Aguiar
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/10/07
Posts: 707
Loc: Toront,Ontario
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Another good EP that not too expensive is Antares W70, they have a 70 degree FOV & the eye rielf is about 20mm on the whole set (even the 4.3mm)so you dont have your eyeball touching the lens. I think they retail for $80 but you can find them used for about $40.
I will take a pic soon & post it.
Here is a pic side by side on the AntaresW70/4.3mm next to a plossl 6.5mm EP see how much better eyerielf is not to mention have an extra 20 degree FOV its a good EP try it.
Joe
All the scope I have owned * is what I have right now
-4.5" F/8 generic reflector on EQ1
-6"F/5 Omcon reflector on EQ3
-10" F/10 Meade S.C.T LX6
-3"F/5 Jason reflector on table top
-3.1"F/5 Celestron refractor on EQ1
-4.7"F/9 Antres refractor on EQ4
-3.1" F/5 Celestron G.T (computer go-to scope)
-6"F/5 Sky Mender reflector on EQ4
-8"F/4 Sky Mender reflector on EQ4
-6"F/8 Celestron refractor on CG-5
-16" F/4.5 Meade Dobsonian (partly custom made)
*-8"F/10 Celestron Nexstar G.T /With telrad
-10"F/5 Sky Mender reflector Dobsonian
*-4"F/5 Skywatcher refractor on AZ3 with rigel finder & Antares 2" crayford dual speed focuser
-3.1"F/5 Vista refractor on EQ2
-14"F/10 Meade LX200 G.P.S Smart mount
-6"F/8 Skywatcher refractor on EQ-6 mount
-6"F/8 Skywatcher refractor to make a custom made dual 6" binoculars in the making now
-5"F/13 Skywatcher maksutov on EQ2
*-12" Meade LX90 G.P.S/S.C.T/ F10 with telrad & feather touch 2 speed focuser
*-7" Meade Mak/Cass F/15 LXD-75 with telrad & feather touch 2 speed focuser
-Cornado solar maxscope 40 on EQ-3 mount
*-Cornado Solar maxscope 60 on EQ-3 mount
*-Antares 152mm F/6.5 refractor on LXD-75 mount with rigel
*80mm F/5 refractor on a Table top EQ-1 mount
*Nexstar 6SE
Not counting any EP filters ETC... I got 2 cases full & would take up another page to list them all.
Edited by Joe Aguiar (07/19/08 11:23 AM)
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JasonNB
member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 98
Loc: Spring Hill, TN
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Ok, since the BO is still out of stock for a while, I'm settling on the other ep's I want. Looks like the 6 & 0 expanse clones are on my list. I qould like to add a Hyperion, but my budget may not allow. I see that the 15 of the Expanse clones is not a viable option, but I have read that the 20 may be? Owl has good pricing on sets of 3 if the 20 is worthwhile in my scope, this may fill my EP lineup for now, assuming the 6 and 9 are decent on planets. Later on, I can pick up a planetary after I get used to a little nicer glass.
As I understand it, the 6&9 use a smythe/barlow. Can these ep's be used as ~2 and 18mm without the extra lens?
The Antares 70's are nice. Would like to hear some opinions of the 55 deg ED glass ep's that see so popular.
Many thanks for all the advice so far. I'm soaking it all in and trying to learn.
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Zhumell 8" Dob
Edited by JasonNB (07/29/08 11:15 PM)
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astrodon
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 1347
Loc: Hillsboro, OR, USA
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I think the 15mm Expanse clone would serve well at f/6, sure the correction is not perfect, but for the price you really won't notice.
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Don Miller
Meade 16" f4.5 in a hot water heater tube!
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astrodon
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 1347
Loc: Hillsboro, OR, USA
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Also, the eye placement is tricky on the W70's at the shorter focal lengths so be forewarned, they may black out. I had the 8.6mm and it blacked out the worst of any eyepiece I've ever had. The ED eyepieces are about as good as cheaper plossls which you already have but do offer more eye relief. However, they are prone to blackout at the shorter focal lengths also and don't offer any edge in performance over the plossls, so you may wish to get some Expanse clones now and save up for the Hyperions down the road.
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Don Miller
Meade 16" f4.5 in a hot water heater tube!
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JasonNB
member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 98
Loc: Spring Hill, TN
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I have also scanned over the owl/agena 20mm, 16mm, and 11mm ultra wide 80's. The 20 intrigues me since it doubles as a 30.
Sounds like the ED's aren't for me.
I really like the idea of Hyperions, but it's hard for me to justify $120 each, and probably won't for the next 3 years or so. I probably wouldn't enjoy the limited observing time I get if I was worried about more expensive EP's. Part of the fun for me is experimenting, but not to the point of buying items that won't work well with my scope.
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Zhumell 8" Dob
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cuir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/03/07
Posts: 835
Loc: 45° 1'12. N, 73°56'12. W (Qc)
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You need better eyepieces. This said, don't be worried about the kids. eyelash ghoop is easy to clean, and eyepieces are much more resilient than most would care to believe. Be wary of adults. Glasses and feminine war paint is what menaces your precious glass. The glasses can damage your coatings, the metal frames can scratch the lenses, and the solvent used in womens make-up are definitely NOT kosher.
Go for the Hyperions. You will not be sorry. Do let the kids look thrue them. After all, they are the ones that will benefit the most, as their eyesight is so much better than that of older people. A mesmerizing view might inspire them thowards grander things. As for your dip in interest, I'd say that you might be lacking documentation. Do you have a very large scaled atlas? Open it on a known contellation, and start hunting for a DSO you haven't seen yet. Sky Atlas 2000.0, Herald-Bobroff or Uranometria are good ones. Even Firefly's Deluxe planisphere (Tirion) is great to find a new challenge.
Looking at the same targets over and over can become boring to some. In my case, I can spend night upon night, gazing only at one target, but that is just the result of a personality trait. I'm a dreamer, and thousands of things go thrue my head while I gaze. Others, like I suspect you to be, are more target oriented. For that type of personality, there is often a penchant to go back to known targets, as satisfaction is achieved much faster. The satisfaction becomes rather tame, though, and intest wanes. The biggest part of the fun for that type of personality, is the hunt and discovery of a target.
Just on a side note; Have you always collimated the scope ? Used a laser ?
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Seb
Latest eyepiece spreadsheet
Choosing the right eyepiece
Main scope: 150mm Skywatcher Maksutov
Favorite ep: 24 Panoptic
Pref'ed filters: Lumicon 0III and UHC
Mounts: EQ6-Pro and Skyview AZ
Just in: C8-S-XLT
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astrodon
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 1347
Loc: Hillsboro, OR, USA
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While the 80 degree field of the UWA's is intriguing, they really supply no more and even perhaps less useable field than the budget widefields such as the Q70 and Agena and Garret Super Wide Angles or the Expanse clones at about 15mm and 10mm focal lengths.
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Don Miller
Meade 16" f4.5 in a hot water heater tube!
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astrodon
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 1347
Loc: Hillsboro, OR, USA
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I'll put it this way, you can either go for decent higher power views from 6mm and 9mm Expanse clones or go for the Hyperion at 13mm if you see yourself doing more deep sky viewing than planetary. Or you could go for one of the higher power expanses and 15mm expanse for great planetary views and very decent deep sky views. Any option you go for, you'll be seeing more, so you come out a winner either way. Personally, I would save the $40 of two expanse clones at $80 for both over the $120 of just one hyperion. Also I'd probably go for the option of the 9mm since it is your favorite focal length and the 15mm, since it would barlow to a very usable 7.5mm.
Good Luck!
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Don Miller
Meade 16" f4.5 in a hot water heater tube!
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JasonNB
member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 98
Loc: Spring Hill, TN
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I have a laser, but I only use it for quick checks. even though I have collimated the laser, it has a very sloppy fit in the focuser. I generally collimate every time or two out with a cheshire.
You have my personality somewhat pegged. I tend to spend the first half of a session hunting known targets. I seem to have sessions of either planets, or DSO's, mainly Nebulas, but I would really like to hone my skills to track down some galaxies. I'm really still learning what ep's are best for what objects.
I have a PSA 2000 and a couple other books that walk through popular objects. I have a nasty tendency to sit down with my laptop and Stellariun to locate objects though.
I have ordered a 2" ED Barlow that should give me a chance to see if my 1.25" is a problem, and to give me an alternate FL for my 2" 26mm for some decent lower power views. I suspect I have a a tendancy to overpower DSO's.
I can pick up the 6, 9, and 15 expanse clones for $99 total or any 2 for $80, so the 15 or 20 will only cost me $20 to find out. My new barlow and 26 will also net me 13mm at a reported 65deg. If I find myself using this often, I will save my pennies for the Hyperion or something else. In this case I will be covered except for 15-26mm.
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Zhumell 8" Dob
Edited by JasonNB (07/30/08 09:24 AM)
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cuir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/03/07
Posts: 835
Loc: 45° 1'12. N, 73°56'12. W (Qc)
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Have you done the math to reveal wich eyepiece gives you the magic 2mm ExPl and limit 1mm ExPl ? These two lengths are the most imortant one. Beyond 1mm, unless it's the moon or planetary you are expecting too much magnification out of your equipment. It's a common mistake, and it can be quite disheartning because everything seems so dim. My first large aperture scope, an 8" (200x1000) EQ Newton caused me to do that a lot. I learned better, ironically, using my GF's 6" (150x750). I soon realized the importance of pupil. Images in the same FL eyepieces were much brighter in her scope, even if the magnification was less. Not too long after this, I started reading CN forum threads to see my new doubts confirmed.
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Seb
Latest eyepiece spreadsheet
Choosing the right eyepiece
Main scope: 150mm Skywatcher Maksutov
Favorite ep: 24 Panoptic
Pref'ed filters: Lumicon 0III and UHC
Mounts: EQ6-Pro and Skyview AZ
Just in: C8-S-XLT
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