Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2487
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Here's an idea....
Put the lists and charts and reference books away and spend an evening just sweeping the summer Milky Way.
Use your lowest power telescope/eyepiece combination or binoculars and just enjoy the views.
Next, put on a UHC filter and sweep the same areas again; you'll be amazed at the amount of nebulosity that is missed the first time around.
Hey guys, too much emphasis is put on lists and "bagging" DSOs....just take an evening without an agenda and marvel at the infinite variation in starfields, clusters, and bright and dark nebulae in the Milky Way arms.
Sometimes, being "simple minded" can lead to an epiphany.
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Mr. Bill
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 "bent" homemade achromat
8 inch Orion newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
"Life's too short to look through "almost as good" eyepieces"
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 266
Loc: Arizona
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Do what? I can't hear you....
Just kidding Bill.... Are you going to the meeting on the 18th and bringing the Miyauchi's? I'll consider marveling at the star fields if you do....
Steven
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Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2487
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Hi Steven...
What's happening on the 18th??
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Mr. Bill
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 "bent" homemade achromat
8 inch Orion newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
"Life's too short to look through "almost as good" eyepieces"
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 266
Loc: Arizona
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EVAC, July 18th, 2008 - Tom Polakis will talk about Lunar and Planetary imaging.
I just talked to you in the grocery store parking lot a few weeks ago, you haven't moved out of state yet have you (I saw your bio)?
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Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1609
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I usually end all my summer observing sessions (yes, after working through a list or a doing a tour via my DSCs) by cruising the Milky Way. Wonderful!
In fact, my favorite DSO viewing is starting at M8 or M22 and then just sweeping back up the Milky Way picking up all sorts of major DSOs along the way.
I've always wanted to just cruise a constellation or two and use the DSC identify function (the couple of times I tried identify, however, there are too many objects or they are not close enough for definitive identification).
But I've never tried what you suggested... sweeping gently, slowly, and then following up the same path with a filter.
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2487
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
EVAC, July 18th, 2008 - Tom Polakis will talk about Lunar and Planetary imaging.
I just talked to you in the grocery store parking lot a few weeks ago, you haven't moved out of state yet have you (I saw your bio)?
Wrong guy or Alzheimer's is setting in early.....I live in Susanville, California.
Love to meet you in person, though.
EVAC, sounds like something we will be doing if these fires don't stop.
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Mr. Bill
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 "bent" homemade achromat
8 inch Orion newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
"Life's too short to look through "almost as good" eyepieces"
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 266
Loc: Arizona
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Wow, really??? Well your evil twin lives in Apache Junction, AZ and has a pair of binocs just like in your bio pic. And, I even found a 454x369 pixel bio pic of you some time ago, googling 'Mr Bill cloudy' and could swear you were "Bill", um, the one I know.... lol
Well, no matter, if you bring the big binocs, I'll still take a look.... 
Sorry to hear about the fires up there.
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Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2487
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Well, I just sold my 25x150 Fujinons.....
Hummmm......
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Mr. Bill
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 "bent" homemade achromat
8 inch Orion newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
"Life's too short to look through "almost as good" eyepieces"
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deepsky
super member
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 194
Loc: oregon
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I like to do both. 
Last night I used my "list" to grab a bunch of galaxies near M5, including logging the details and sketching the view.
Then spent several hours just looking at the sky, grabbing the scope and sweeping an area, or going on mutual eye candy hunts with buddies.
The best of both!
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jim jackson
Astroleague Observer Award junkie
Messier Club-Honorary
Lunar Club
Binocular Messier Club
Double Star Club
Herschel 400 Club
Urban Observing Club
Deep Sky Binocular Club
Caldwell Club Silver&Gold
Southern Sky Binocular Club
Southern Sky Telescopic Club
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stevecoe
"The Astronomical Tourist"
Reged: 04/24/04
Posts: 2019
Loc: Arizona, USA
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I also really enjoy both. We recently had a star party at the Saguaro Astronomy Club were we showed up with binoculars, enjoyed the views, swapped with someone else...a grand time was had by all. Like Bill said, just scanning around, seeing what you can see.
I have discovered two of the asterisms I discovered in this manner, there are lots of fun things to see when you are just looking for the fun of it. I enjoy taking on a list and I also enjoy setting it aside for a while and looking at the beautiful Galaxy we live in.
Clear skies;
Steve Coe
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150mm 6" f/8 Celestron Refractor on Sirius Mount
80mmED 3" f/7.5 Orion Refractor
Author "Deep Sky Observing" Springer-Verlag
Author "Nebulae and How to Observe Them" Springer
New Canon Xt astrocamera with Hutech modification
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RRaubach
AstroCowboy
Reged: 01/26/05
Posts: 2172
Loc: Douglas (Converse County),WY
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You just sold WHAT?!!!! I thought that you and the Fujis were joined at the hip! 
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Rodger
Meade SN-10 (UHTC) on Tak EM-200 mount/Antares rotating rings. Moonlite focuser.
Parallax 14.5" Newtonian on HD 200 mount (arriving soon!) w/ conical Royce mirror.
TMB 203 f/7 APO refractor on Tak NJP-160 mount.
Discovery 12.5" PDHQ
Schneider 18x80 "Flakfernrohr" binoculars/tripod mounted. Canon 15x50 IS binoculars
Unihedron Sky Quality Meter
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2487
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
You just sold WHAT?!!!! I thought that you and the Fujis were joined at the hip!
Life goes on....
Power lifting 46 pounds over my head to mount the binoculars was getting tough on my back; also the 6mm exit pupil was being vignetted by my 5.1mm dilated 62 year old eye pupil.
OTOH, my BT 100 binoculars with 24mm Panoptics (4mm exit pupil) ain't too shabby.
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Mr. Bill
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 "bent" homemade achromat
8 inch Orion newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
"Life's too short to look through "almost as good" eyepieces"
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stevek
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/16/06
Posts: 1170
Loc: west michigan
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You're right Bill - the "Milky Way Cruise" can be alot of fun from a dark site. I got to play it all by myself Fri nite. I spent about an hour moving from Sag to Cyg, and then did it over again with the NPB filter on. The filter is new to me since Xmas, so the trip was new too. There are some remarkable light/dark neb distinct areas around M11 that I spent alot of time on and discovered the N Amer Neb is greatly enhanced by it also. It was a great way to end the day after hours in the Sun at the pool with excessive adult beverages  .
Steve
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DSO 8" f6 DOB w/ 8x50 RACI & 2"Crayford
1958 Sears Discoverer 76mm Refractor
GSO SV 30mm 2",21mm Hyp,13mm Strat,BO/TMB ver2-6mm & 4mm
1.25"Filters: DGM-NPB, 25%ND
1.25" plossls: 25mm,20mm,15mm,9mm
Orion 2X Shorty Barlow
Garrett Gemini LW 11x56mm binocs
BTG-10 4.0mW green laser pointer
"What is that burning in the sky? Tell me y'all..." Jeff Beck/Jan Hammer
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MessierScott
super member
Reged: 06/18/07
Posts: 159
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Why use lists? The same reason people use GO-TO telescopes I suppose. Observing time is short and I want to see as many "different" objects as I can.
I like to see new and intersting stuff that I've never observed before. I like to push my limits and see what kind of weird stuff is really out there.
Oh, I've spent many nights sitting on my observing chair with my 16x80's just panning the Milky Way. I love to do the same in the Winter Milky Way as well. I will usually have them set up on a mount and get some observing in while others are peering through my scope.
But if the night is clear, (we get far too few of them here in the Great Plains) I have my scope out, my list in hand, and am going deep!
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Scott Kranz
20-inch f/4.3 Starmaster w/Zambuto mirror, Feathertouch focuser, GO TO & tracking
7-inch Starmaster
H-alpha Coronado PST
Denkmeier II binoviewers w/24mm Panoptics
16x80 binos
Astronomical Society of Kansas City
Astronomical League Messier, Meteor, Sunspotter, & Asteroid Observing Programs Coordinator
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2487
Loc: Just passing through.....
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I'm not suggesting giving up using lists of DSOs while observing; it is to also take time out to "smell the roses."
Goal oriented behavior has its place as does trying to recapture the pure joy of wonder of the universe around us that we had the first time we looked through a telescope. After 30 years of observing, that is my mission these days.
That is the point of this thread.
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Mr. Bill
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 "bent" homemade achromat
8 inch Orion newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
"Life's too short to look through "almost as good" eyepieces"
Edited by Mr. Bill (07/12/08 12:36 PM)
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Thomas_N
member
Reged: 07/07/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Germany, Bavarian Forest
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Quote:
Why use lists? The same reason people use GO-TO telescopes I suppose. Observing time is short and I want to see as many "different" objects as I can.
Interesting! People are different, I guess. What I like most is surfing through the night sky by binoculars without any lists (just my atlas close at hand), stumbling over fuzzy patches. What the heck is this? Have'nt seen that before! Then I'm trying to identify star patterns, looking them up in the atlas, verifying, looking up, verifying... and finally: "YES!, that HAS TO BE Stock 23!"
OK, I only find a couple of new objects every night, but they are all new discoveries. No way I let GOTO or lists spoil that experience. OK - I'm a little exaggerating. Sometimes I go out on a hunt for all the GCs in Ophiuchus for example. But most of the time I go out discovering.
Thomas
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mypontiac
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 651
Loc: Austin, Tx.
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Funny you post this.
I haven't taken my "beast" CPC 1100 out much lately as it is a chore to setup and break down when your tired at late hours. 
So I have been viewing lately with my Obies. I have seen such great things recently that I have got my motivation back.
Its nice to lay back and see so many things that you can stumble across!
I ordered a scope buggy last night to make it easier for bringing out the "beast". Soon I will be back to high power viewing.
I look forward to IDing some of the objects I found.
Sean
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2487
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
What I like most is surfing through the night sky by binoculars without any lists (just my atlas close at hand), stumbling over fuzzy patches. What the heck is this? Have'nt seen that before! Then I'm trying to identify star patterns, looking them up in the atlas, verifying, looking up, verifying... and finally: "YES!, that HAS TO BE Stock 23!"
OK, I only find a couple of new objects every night, but they are all new discoveries. No way I let GOTO or lists spoil that experience. OK - I'm a little exaggerating. Sometimes I go out on a hunt for all the GCs in Ophiuchus for example. But most of the time I go out discovering.
Thomas
We have very similar observing techniques.
My normal pattern is to sweep fields at different magnifications; when I run into something I don't know offhand, I look on my SkyAtlas.
If I don't find it there, I use my Uranometria to identify it.
Seen just about everything I can see with my equipment using this method....seems more intuitive at this point in my observing career.
Also, you never know if you're going to run into an undiscovered comet.....
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Mr. Bill
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 "bent" homemade achromat
8 inch Orion newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
"Life's too short to look through "almost as good" eyepieces"
Edited by Mr. Bill (07/13/08 11:44 AM)
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PeterSurma
member
Reged: 08/24/06
Posts: 60
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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Yes, it can be very nice, rewarding + surprising (of course) NOT to keep watching lists + checking one object after the other, but to sweep freely ! Perhaps ESPECIALLY in the structures of the MW in summer, with those lots of
objects crowded together ! The emotional aspect is stronger with accidential findings, of course. And what counts in fact IS the emotional aspect !
The bad thing about lists is: all these many objects together they seem to suggest to me: I have to scan thru them quickly (the better the more objects/sec :-) and completely (finally got the whole list, yeah), and tell people I saw them. This simply leads to boredom. Who cares if I saw NGC xyz, if thousands saw it before ? It's only my thought's an emotions and effort and experience that makes observing this thing special - to me !
The other way of achieving this is 'go for details !' Then it doesn't matter whether you've found it just by accident, or if you've searched for it (the hard way). The emotion comes from the detail + the time you spend on it, while being fascinated...
Well, so keep up your right philosophy ! :-)
Don't take me wrong if you feel in favour of the 'list-driven kind of observing'. That's ok of course - I use them as well, but it's the attitude while going through them (+ reporting on this) that makes the difference. And that is probably where you might agree, I guess...
Peter
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Web: http://www.eyes4skies.de/home_EnglishVersion.htm
Edited by PeterSurma (07/12/08 05:41 PM)
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Olivier Biot
Amused
Reged: 04/25/05
Posts: 14005
Loc: 51°N (Belgium)
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I agree with most what has been said in this thread. What's funny, is that there are nights where I want to compare views of different similar objects (e.g., galaxies in Coma Berenices and Virgo, globulars, planetaries). In those situations I like the ability to quickly move between targets. In not too favorable skies (where star hopping is harder due to the lack of a sufficient amount of visible stars) I like the assistance of a GoTo (or PushTo) system.
On other occasions I want to visit a list of objects. I usually prefer moving the scope by hand to do so. It's nice to compare nights this way, using a set of standard observing lists. Also, sometimes I want to observe a list of objects described in an article, or a report or somebody else's observing log. Reading these articles often motivates me to visit the objects mentioned.
There are other days where I just enjoy unprepared stargazing. Usually I sweep the skies either with binoculars while lying on a reclining chair (on summer nights). Or I use my 80mm rich field refractor with a low power eyepiece and just want to take in whatever crosses my field of view. The darker the skies the more fun!
Cheers,
Olivier
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Tal-200K (#199) with JMI NGF-Mini2M focuser on GEM3 • Astro-Tech AT80ED on Orion Sirius EQ-G with EQDIR & home made wireless EQDIRECT • Celestron Regal LX 8x42 & 10x42 • Helios 15x70
ATM 14" f/5 (designing mirror cell and filter wheel/focuser) • ATM 10" f/6 Portable Truss (polishing) • ATM 10" f/25 Dall-Kirkham (primary: polishing, secondary: #120 grit)
AstroForecast
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