canyoning
journeyman
Reged: 07/08/08
Posts: 5
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How useful are hand held 30x80 binos for stargazing and birding? Is the 2.7mm exit pupil too small to see through hand held?
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 967
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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Unless you've got arms like Popeye, 30x80 or 30x anything for that matter, requires a sturdy tripod/head or some other means of support. Some can hand hold 15x70s for short periods but the views are always going to be better mounted.
If hand holding is a requirement, look to something more like 10x. It's not about exit pupil it's about steadiness. 
BTW, welcome to Binoculars!
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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canyoning
journeyman
Reged: 07/08/08
Posts: 5
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About the 30x80 binos. What about being seated and resting your elbows on supports?
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SeanOD
member
Reged: 06/10/08
Posts: 12
Loc: South Africa
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Greetings,
As a newish member here I can attest to Rich's statement. I rested my 15x70's on a wall and was so impressed with the views that I am now grimly determined to get a sturdy tripod ASAP. Based on my admittedly limited knowledge I would say that even with braced elbows, a 30x willl be unusable.
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Oberwerk 15X70
Pentax PCF 12X50
Nikon 7X50
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SaberScorpX
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 4120
Loc: illinois, usa
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A tripod will be required for any serious observing and the most detail.
If one is willing to put in dozens of hours to reinforce coordination, technique, breathing, etc. a workable degree of handheld stability can be achieved at 30x.
But have a tripod at your disposal anyway.
The long 'close' focus and relatively narrow field of view are not especially popular for birding either.
Saber Does The Stars at
www.astronomyblogs.com/member/saberscorpx/
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werewolf6977
Lord High Smasher
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7408
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
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You'd have to have arms like Ahnahld to hand hold'em.
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Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
About the 30x80 binos. What about being seated and resting your elbows on supports?
Stephen Saber and myself both have a couple of 30x80mm binoculars that we like to handhold. I do mine from a sitting postion, but, I am mostly just "scanning" the heavens. I make brief stops to look at the Double Cluster or the Orion Nebula. However, a 30x, or even a 20x, NEEDS a tripod to do it justice. Any level of serious birdwatching will necessitate having it mounted. (Most Chinese 30x binoculars have a minimum focus of around 100+ feet, my Japanese 30x is somewhere around 65-75 feet) Trying to hold five pounds of weight, at 30x, for any LENGTH of time, is just not realistic for steady views.
Which 30x80mm giant binocular have you been considering? I really enjoy my Barska 30x80mm X-Trail for long distance bird watching, using a Manfrotto 3246 tripod and a 501 head.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (07/09/08 09:57 PM)
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1802
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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The question here is not really "can you do it" - the answer is obviously "yes". But now that the academic question is out of the way, we can answer the more important question - is this something you really want to do on a regular or extended basis? The answer is surely going to be "no".
Common wisdom is that if you go much above 12x, you are going to want to tripod mount the binoculars. Not because you can't see anything handheld, but rather, you see so much more when tripod-mounted, that it's unlikely you will be happy with the handheld views.
That being said, yes, I often use my 20x80LW binoculars (that weigh less than 4 lbs) handheld for quick views, and while the image bounces all over the place, The much deeper reach does show some DSO's that would be difficult to see in smaller binoculars.
But at 30x? Whatever enjoyment you get handheld will be magnified by a factor of five on a tripod, and that's most likely where they will end up (if you choose to hold onto them).
I regularly observe with tripod-mounted 30x77mm binoculars and it's amazing how much you can see with binoculars like that. There's a wealth of interesting NGC objects that you can pick up with them. Happy Hunting!
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canyoning
journeyman
Reged: 07/08/08
Posts: 5
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I have several binoculars ranging from 7x50, 10x50, 10x70 and now 20x80 for astronomy, birding etc. My most recent was the 20x80, after using these I thought they were great, so much I want a 30x80 to see if they are as easy to use and with increased image size. I do use Bogen tripods with bino adapters. Is the Barska 30x80 X-Trail worth it at $98?
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canyoning
journeyman
Reged: 07/08/08
Posts: 5
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I'm afraid the 30x80s are similar to 20x50 binos. Exit pupils of 2.66mm and 2.50mm.
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Exit pupils have never been a problem for me, with my Barska 30x80mm.
"Things to be aware of BEFORE purchasing a 30x80mm".
I have two different 30x80's and I had to purchase a 1" center post extension for each one, to keep the tubes from rubbing against the top of the 501 & 503 heads, when sliding the binoculars along the center bar. Without the 1" center extension you cannot utilize 100% of the center bar.
http://www.garrettoptical.com/Binocular-Center-Post-Extension-p/gbinx.htm
I had to return two of the Barska 30x80mm X-Trails to get one that had good collimation.
I find that I must keep the rubber eyecups rolled down at all times, when viewing thru my Barska, otherwise I get very narrow tunnel vision from the very short eye relief.
The grease they use in China seems to be very thick, as the right diopter adjustment is very stiff and gets worse in cold weather. One Chinese giant astronomy binocular that I had was almost impossible to adjust the IPD in cold weather, and it was extremely difficult to adjust the right diopter when temperatures got below 45 degrees. In such cases it is recommended to adjust the IPD indoors.
All of the three Barska 30x80's that I received were stamped "Fully Coated" on the prism housing, so, light transmission, for stargazing, is not as good as Fully Multi-Coated optics. The Barska 30x80mm X-Trail is advertised as Multi-Coated in their catalogs.
Close focus is advertised at 49', when in reality it is probably closer to 100+'. The Barska 30x80mm X-Trail is a very good binocular for daytime bird watching. It is my favorite.
One of the problems with purchasing an X-trail 30-80mm at "rock-bottom" prices is the fact that these internet companies will NOT properly pack the binoculars for shipping. So, there is a very high probability of receiving the binocular out of collimation. It is better to pay alittle exttra, for the overall cost, from a company that is willing to go the extra mile and package the binocular securely.
http://www.amazon.com/Barska-X-trail-Binocularw-Braced-Adapter/dp/B000EUH75M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1215911677&sr=8-1
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (07/12/08 09:16 PM)
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10082
Loc: Lancashire UK
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I'm wondering if Barska pay special attention to which manufacturers they buy their 30 x 80 X - trail models from ?
The 70mm Barskas I've seen have been of poor quality -- similar to the Celestrons etc.
I never liked the 30 x 80 Orions / Helios , 10 / 12 years ago , even when they came from Japan and cost the equivalent to around $800 by today's standards .
Perhaps the Chinese have managed to find a way to make these 30 x 80s superior to the old Japanese ones , for 10% of the price ?
If so , this is tremendous news for big binocular enthusiasts !
Clear Skies
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12514
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Barska makes two different bodies for their 80mm binoculars. One is similar to the X-trail model, the same as the Anttler, several lightweights and the Zhumell 80mm models. The other has silver back plates on the prism housing, similar to the older discontinued Burgess binocular. I tested both of these in the 20x80 sizes at NEAF. The effective aperture of the X-trail body is 72mm. The effective aperture of the silver backed model is 70mm.
The Barska 30x80 is built on the X-trail body.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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EdZ,
The Barska 20x80mm X-Trail weighs 68.8 ozs.
The Barska 20x80mm Cosmos weighs 88 ozs.
The prisms housings look bigger on the Cosmos in Barska's catalog. Did you happen to notice this? I'm wondering if the prisms ARE larger, in reality. What do you think?
According to the catalog the Cosmos is "structurally reinforced", do you think the Cosmos has better internal prism reinforcement?
Thanks
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12514
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I've never compared the two.
I only measured the effecctive aperture. Both have small prisms.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
I've never compared the two. Both have small prisms.
edz
Thanks!
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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