Perry67
journeyman
Reged: 07/18/08
Posts: 6
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Greetings
My name is Perry. I have been lurking on this list for a couple weeks, reading and learning. I wouldn’t say I’m a newbie but I am going to make the jump from observing to imaging this year, I hope.
I started with a Bushnell 60mm about 20 years ago. “Wow 500X, I’ll be able to see the lunar Lander!” Well I learned better. I bought a Star Atlas 2000 and managed to star hop my way around anyway. 10 years later I wanted to do some film astrophotography. That was about the time Celestron came out with the NexStar 5/8. I bought the 5 for ease of handling. I use a wheelchair. So I wait for the promised wedge to finally come along and in the mean time I learn that it’s not a good platform for astrophotography. Foiled again!  Oh well it has been a good visual scope.
Now I am ready to try astro imaging. I figure with the help of this forum I should get it right this time. I’m looking at the Orion Atlas EQ-G with Goto. My plan is to mount the C-5 from my NexStar on it with the Orion Starshoot Color for starters. I will add an inexpensive guide scope and the starshoot autoguider next. That should get me taking pictures. With this mount I will be able to move up to an Orion 102mm Premium ED refractor with a guide scope and have plenty of head room weight wise. Oh and the Atlas will be on a pier not a tripod. Easier for the wheelchair to get around. I will build a movable house over it so it is always ready to go. Don’t let the wheelchair fool ya. I have a complete wood and metal working shop with a metal lathe and vertical mill all wheelchair accessible. Building the observatory will not be a problem. I just want to make sure I am getting equipment that will do the job this time around. I don’t have 30k to spend on this either. I like Andy’s Shotglass site for his recommendations on a less expensive way to go.
Where I would like to be in 2 years. Atlas mount on a pier under a moblile house. Orion 102mm Premium ED refractor, Orion short tube 80mm guide scope, starshoot autoguider, starshoot color ccd and all hard wired to the PC in my shop 45 feet away. The C-5 would be back on the NexStar as my grab and go scope.
Please, if you see any problems with this let me know.
Thanks in advance,
Perry
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fishmagnet
sage
Reged: 12/11/07
Posts: 256
Loc: Satellite Beach Fla
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I think you have an excellent plan and have done your home work. It will all come together. You are obviously a very motivated individual.
*****John
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Vixen ED 103S refractor
Takahashi EM 11 Temma II Jr
Astro-Tech AT66ED
SBIG ST-10E CFW-8
Meade DSI Pro II monochrome CCD
Atik filter wheel
Philips PCVC 740K ToUcam
Registax 4.0
Photoshop CS3
MaxIm DL4
The Sky 6
Astro-Lab Roxy
Member Brevard Astronomical Society
"Starin' at the stars in a distant galaxy; wonderin' if there's someone out there starin' back at me!"
Fountains of Wayne
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yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1649
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That sounds like a very good plan. Getting a good mount is essential.
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Nils_Lars
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 726
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Sound like a great plan , maybe you could skip the 102ED and the ST80 and just get a used 80ED then have the C-5 and 80ED and use both for guiding and shooting depending on the target.
Your set up is also a great way to go and lets you go in steps I was just thinking of a different way.
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Erik
Celestron C6S-GT
Various eyepieces and other gear
Baytronix 80mm guidescope
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D (unmodded)
Stilleto Focuser
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://home.comcast.net/~eriknlarsen/site/?/photos/
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Perry67
journeyman
Reged: 07/18/08
Posts: 6
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Eric,
That is what I was thinking for a start anyway. What do you mean buy depending on what you are shooting. C-5 for planets and moon?
Perry
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Perry
NexStar 5
CG-5 advanced
Hap Griffin modified Canon 40D
6.3 Celestron R/C
Orion illuminated ep
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Nils_Lars
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 726
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Yes I would use that with a webcam for planets and moon and some galxies and smaller nebula the the 80ED or the C-5 with a focal reducer for wider targets.
Alot of targets wont fit in the C-5 even with a FR , I have a C-6 and found that out , this is my first season shooting and the learing curve is discouraging at first but it pays off once you get going.
I would say that Atlas will be the best start , I was getting 2 min subs unguided with my CG-5 and the Atlas is definatly a better mount so all the guiding and other goodies can come later.
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Erik
Celestron C6S-GT
Various eyepieces and other gear
Baytronix 80mm guidescope
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D (unmodded)
Stilleto Focuser
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://home.comcast.net/~eriknlarsen/site/?/photos/
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knuklhdastnmr
Pepperbelly
Reged: 02/24/05
Posts: 3495
Loc: Beerpuddle, Colorado
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"Jump" is an apt metaphor. Learning how to produce a recognizeable image, I have found, is like trying to jump from one side of a canyon to the other.
I'm still doing my "Wile E. Coyote" impression.
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Knucklhead Astronomer
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 6686
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Quote:
That is what I was thinking for a start anyway. What do you mean buy depending on what you are shooting. C-5 for planets and moon?
It sounds like you have a good plan, Perry, but Eric does bring up a good point. You need to consider what your targets are going to be and plan your scopes accordingly. If you want to image wide field objects, a shorter focal length scope would be better. On the other hand, for planetary imaging you'll probably want as much focal length as possible.
So...for the most versatility, a shorter focal length APO combined with a longer focal length SCT or other scope is worth considering. At a minimum, rather than an ST80 as a guide scope, you might want to consider a 66mm Williams Optics or Astro Tech APO refractor. With a focal reducer/flattener you would have a 320mm f/4.8 imaging scope as well as a 712mm refractor.
Or...use the C5 as your guide scope/planetary scope combined with the 102ED. Or...the list goes on... 
Patrick
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Discovery 10" f/6 Split Tube Dob
Celestron C6S-GT SCT
Denk Binoviewers
AT66ED Refractor
Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Binocular
475B Geared Tripod & 501HDV Head
Oberwerk 9x60 Binocular
Celestron Regal 8x42 Binocular
Canon 30D DSLR
My Astronomy Pages
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Bill W.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1437
Loc: Western PA, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
At a minimum, rather than an ST80 as a guide scope, you might want to consider a 66mm Williams Optics or Astro Tech APO refractor. With a focal reducer/flattener you would have a 320mm f/4.8 imaging scope as well as a 712mm refractor.
A 66mm WO or Astro-Tech scope without the reducer is 400mm... 
-Bill
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Orion Atlas EQ-G (EQMOD), SBIG ST-2000XM & AO7
Stellarvue SV66ED
Skunk Hollow Observatory
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Al Canarelli
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/06/07
Posts: 1442
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If you are looking to save a few bucks (who isn't) you may want to reconsider your imaging scope. Rather than the 102, why not go with an 80mm ED. Going this route would allow you to buy a less expensive mount, such as the Celestron Advanced GT which sells for almost one third the cost of the Atlas EQ-G. I offer this suggestion because I know that you have not considered many costs that will present themselves as you learn more about astrophotography. I use this mount (for astrophotography only) and find it to be very worthwhile. Finally, so there are no surprises for you, I suggest that you go to www.astropix.com and buy the book on CD that you see. This book will become your bible and will answer any and all questions that will confront you with astrophotography. It will tell you specifically which equipment you will need, how much to pay for it, where to buy it and how to use it. In short, it will be the best $40 you ever spent.
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Perry67
journeyman
Reged: 07/18/08
Posts: 6
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Thanks Al,
What seems to keep coming up in the research I have been doing is “Buy the best mount you can afford.” The Atlas is just that. I hope to grow with it into possibly a 120 apo at some point. If not I will still have a very stable mount on a pier. The Celestron Advanced GT does not have PEC. How important is that with this mount. It is one of my deciding factors.
Perry
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Perry
NexStar 5
CG-5 advanced
Hap Griffin modified Canon 40D
6.3 Celestron R/C
Orion illuminated ep
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 6686
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Quote:
What seems to keep coming up in the research I have been doing is “Buy the best mount you can afford.” The Atlas is just that. I hope to grow with it into possibly a 120 apo at some point. If not I will still have a very stable mount on a pier. The Celestron Advanced GT does not have PEC. How important is that with this mount. It is one of my deciding factors.
Hi Perry,
You will get a lot of divergent opinions on the question of which mount. I think it boils down to a couple of things. What load will you be putting on the mount and what focal length are you going to be imaging at? The suggestion of a CG5-GT is very supportable if you will be carrying loads less than about 20-25 lbs and imaging at focal lengths under 1000mm. The physical length of the OTA is also a consideration. I use a CG5-GT with a 6" SCT and a 66mm APO as my main imaging scope. SEE HERE.
The point Al is making about costs is an important one as well. I have over $3000 worth of gear in my setup not including my DSLR and the notebook computer I use to run my autoguiding software (an additional $2800). Here's the list:
1. C6S-GT 6” SCT and CG5-GT mount $800.00
2. Telrad $40.00
3. Meade DSI Color CCD Camera $100.00
4. 2” Visual Back for SCT $40.00
5. 2” Diagonal $150.00
6. Astrozap Dew Shield $80.00
7. Dew Buster Dew Heater Controller $160.00
8. Telrad Dew Heater $25.00
9. Dual Dovetail Saddle Plate $140.00
10. Astro Tech AT66ED APO Refractor $340.00
11. William Optics 0.8 Field Flattener $150.00
12. Astro Tech 90mm Guide Rings $70.00
13. 12 Volt 33AH Battery $80.00
14. Mount AC Power Adapter $30.00
15. APO Dew Heater $40.00
16. Extra Mount Counterweight $30.00
17. Shoe String Astronomy GPUSB Cable $66.00
18. Battery connectors $15.00
19. Reticle Eyepiece $70.00
20. Stiletto Knife Edge Focuser $240.00
21. Canon AC Battery Adapter $80.00
22. Canon TC80N3 Remote Control $135.00
23. Images Plus Software $180.00
24. Guide to DSLR Astrophotography $40.00
25. Noel Carboni Astro Tools $20.00
26. Misc Cables & Adapters $100.00
Total $3,221.00
You may already have some of these items or can find less expensive ways to accomplish the tasks they perform, but I've found each item necessary for my own workflow. I bought my C6S-GT used.
The question of PEC is a good one. I don't have PEC on the CG5-GT, but I don't need it because I autoguide and I've been able to get excellent tracking up to 5 minutes at 320mm f/l(I haven't tried to go longer...no particular reason not to...just haven't). Unguided, I've only been able to go for 1 minute at 320mm f/l. The question for you is...are you planning on autoguiding? If you are then PEC is not that important. What is more important is to get a good polar alignment.
If you're planning on going with longer focal lengths above 1000mm and/or are going to use heavy OTA's than go for the Atlas. Otherwise, you might consider the CG5-GT as a starter setup to develop a work flow. All the gear I've purchased to support my astrophotography platform now can be transfered to a larger setup down the road should I choose to do longer focal length imaging.
Regards,
Patrick
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Discovery 10" f/6 Split Tube Dob
Celestron C6S-GT SCT
Denk Binoviewers
AT66ED Refractor
Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Binocular
475B Geared Tripod & 501HDV Head
Oberwerk 9x60 Binocular
Celestron Regal 8x42 Binocular
Canon 30D DSLR
My Astronomy Pages
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Perry67
journeyman
Reged: 07/18/08
Posts: 6
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Patrick,
You and Al are making a good case for the Celestron mount. I won't have the cash till August anyway. Realy something to think about. If I outgrew the CG-5 I could sell it on Astro-Mart anyway. I realy appriciate the advice.
Perry
NexStar5
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1118
Loc: New Mexico
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That's a valid point, you could easily sell a CG5 on the market. It's not a bad mount at all and can be modified in many ways. I use one as well. I'd love an atlas or a Tak mount, but right now it's not in the budget until I reach the limits of my current setup, which is a long way away yet. I suspect this mount will carry me for a few years to come in regards to AP.
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-Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My AP Gallery
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Perry67
journeyman
Reged: 07/18/08
Posts: 6
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Ok, so with the CG5-GT, the Orion 102 premium and my c-5. Set up on a saddle for side by side operation. The weight of the scopes are 14lbs the Starshoot color and autoguider 1.5lbs. Rings, plates, dew heaters ect. We are looking at close to 20lbs?? The CG5-GT is rated at 30lbs. I will assume that is for visual and from what I’ve read it would be half that for long exposure astro imaging or 15lbs. On a pier maybe it would handle 20lbs. Have I got this right?
Perry
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Perry
NexStar 5
CG-5 advanced
Hap Griffin modified Canon 40D
6.3 Celestron R/C
Orion illuminated ep
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Nils_Lars
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 726
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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I was worried also until I found out what people are doing on this mount on the stock tripod with about 20Lbs of gear on it.
There are many examples but here is one:
http://weatherandsky.com/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=10&g2_enterAlbum=1
By the time you get to be able to capture and process shots as well as some of the people that have been doing this for years then you can always sell and upgrade.
If it was me and money wasnt the issue it was when I got my CG-5 I might have gone Atlas right off the bat so there are lots of ways to look at it.
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Erik
Celestron C6S-GT
Various eyepieces and other gear
Baytronix 80mm guidescope
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D (unmodded)
Stilleto Focuser
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://home.comcast.net/~eriknlarsen/site/?/photos/
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Perry67
journeyman
Reged: 07/18/08
Posts: 6
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Ok ok I'm sold. I am saving my money till around September when it gets dark earlier. Work and all that. In the mean time I will watch Astro mart and the classifieds in CN in case a good deal pops up.
I really want to thank everybody that replied to my post. I think it will be good to be a part of Cloudy Nights.
Perry
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Perry
NexStar 5
CG-5 advanced
Hap Griffin modified Canon 40D
6.3 Celestron R/C
Orion illuminated ep
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