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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9975
Loc: Lancashire UK
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I'm surprised so many more qualified than myself advocate using targets as close as 100 feet or 100 yards away .
In the past , when I've tried to adjust alignments using targets so close , what appeared acceptable at that distance has still been alarmingly out once switching to planets or stars .
I'm no expert , but I've found that using something like a satellite communication dish on a hill top several miles away provides a more useful starting point .
Of course , it helps if such objects are readily viewable from one's home or working location ! :-)
If all else fails , there is always the option of capping one objective and using the remainder as a monocular , keeping both eyes open !
If things still look out of alignment after that , then you REALLY have a problem ! :-)
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12147
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
I'm surprised so many more qualified than myself advocate using targets as close as 100 feet or 100 yards away .
In the past , when I've tried to adjust alignments using targets so close , what appeared acceptable at that distance has still been alarmingly out once switching to planets or stars .
Not long ago I purchased an older 20x80 that is badly in need of alignment. It is one that requires moving the objective lenses. I spent some time last weekend using a target at 200 yards. What looked good enough after about 10 iterations of adjusments turned out to be hopelessly still mis-aligned when I observed the stars.
For those that think they can do this with a terresstrial target,
if you happen to be dealing with a 20x80,
at 200 yds you need to merge images to within an accuracy of 2 inches.
At 100 yds your target must merge within 1 inch.
At 100 feet your tollerance is 1cm.
If you are dealing with a 10x50, you can double all those values.
FWIW, I need to start all over with my 20x80s.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Thanks for sharing the precious experience. I'll let my eyes rest for a day or two before I continue the project. BillC, I wish you a speedy recovery.
Just curious, what do you guys use to adjust the objective lens? I just use my fingers and that smudge up all over the lens. I am afraid that would affect the lens' coating, in case it is coated. You can tell how inexperienced I am.
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12147
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I use my fingers. You cannot hurt the coatings unless you purposely scratch them.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Quote:
I use my fingers. You cannot hurt the coatings unless you purposely scratch them.
edz
Ah i see. Glad to know. Thanks EdZ.
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1181
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Hi Kenny, EdZ, and CFC,
I'll address some issues all at once here. Kenny and EdZ: I agree that 100 feet or 100 yards is way too close for comfort. I wanted to imply that that is THE INITIAL adjustment in my lab (basement). It is only a fine tune.
Now, as I hope that I conveyed, the fine, fine tune and correction comes at an "almost" infinity distance--actually about four mile away!
CFC: I use either a spaner wrench tool that fits the notches in the rings. I have one tool with two sides of different thicknesses to "grab" the notches. Now, the width of the tool is adjustable over quite a large range, so this tool works for about 90-95% of what I do. This is the easiest menthod. This tool is specifically designed for ring removal/reinsertion on optical equipments.
On the happenstance that I come along an odd ball, I use a screwdriver--the small jewelry type again. I have, I think, about forty different ones.
Every so often, I have to nudge the driver/ring with a VERY SMALL hammer, one designed for jewelry (mainly for gold leaf work). On those rare occasions whereby I have to use this method, it has NEVER failed me yet.
If the black "paint" dislodges from the notch or other areas, which it usually does, I use either KODAK Brushing Lacquer (No. 4 - DULL BLACK {4 fluid ounces}) or simply a black laundy pen.
Just my observations--hope it may help you some.
Best regards,
Dave.
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9975
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Thanks for the clarification , Dave -- although I must say that I would consider 4 fluid ounces leaning toward the excessive for restoration of such tiny areas ! :-)
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1181
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Hi Kenny,
No, I don't use four fluid ounces for every project. I was merely giving the information which is located on the original KODAK information panel. Sorry that I didn't make that clear enough--and I should have, having been a technical writer for black hole projects. There, every sentence has to describe the conclusion and must describe everything in as few words as possible (for upper management, you know).
What I do, my method, is to dab a common swab with a bit of the solution, and then I apply it to the area(s) that need to be repaired.
I have had the four ounces since approx. 1980, and I still have about 67% solution left! I also use the KODAK solution for minor camera/lenses blackening, for which purpose I purchased it in the first place. I am not aware if the product is even available these days.
Anyway, the bottom line: It is a very non-viscous fluid which seems like it could last me for the rest of my life.
Thanks, Kenny, for bringing this to my attention.
Best regards,
Dave.
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote:
Thanks for sharing the precious experience. I'll let my eyes rest for a day or two before I continue the project. BillC, I wish you a speedy recovery.
Just curious, what do you guys use to adjust the objective lens? I just use my fingers and that smudge up all over the lens. I am afraid that would affect the lens' coating, in case it is coated. You can tell how inexperienced I am.
First: THANK YOU!
Next, while using a Mark 5 collimator I use “machinist’s scribe.” It’s pretty universally used. HOWEVR, 3 generations before, many OMs or “Precision Artificers,” as they we known at the time, used a set of eccentric rings that were made to just fit the eccentric rings of the binos. That way BOTH could be turned at once, and the observer never lost sight of the target. They were a more talented generation.
Also, 2000 nautical yards is what we had to use when no collimator was available.
Also also (sic) oil from the skin is more caustic to coatings—I know, I experimented in the fleet. HOWEVER, unless coatings were put on too cold there should be no broblem. Tho optical tinkerers have a proclivity for thinking and worrying about WAY too much!
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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When it comes to optics, there is no "too careful", right? LOL...
Just got a tube of GOOP at Home Depot. So, the critical phase of this project begins now. Will let y'all know how it turns out. It's good that I started the project with a pair of old Jason and not some vintage Bausch and Lomb  .
In the meantime, I am lucky enough to see a pair of used Steiner M22 Military 7x50 Marine for sale. I heard M22 is rare. According to the owner (retired soldier), the binoc have seen some action in Iraq(2003-2004) but the lens are scratch/dust free. I checked. I did some online search, a new pair of Steiner M22 7x50 is selling for about $759. However, i can't find the estimate on an old copy. This used pair that i saw says "Made in W. Germany". So it must be at least 18 years old? You guys definitely have more experience in vintage binoculars than me. What is a fair price for this used Steiner M22 Military?
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
Edited by CFC (07/21/08 03:59 PM)
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1181
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Hi Bill C.,
Thanks for the tip on that instrument of choice. It seems like it is just the thing for this type of work.
And, good health to you. Take your asperin daily (perhaps Plavex as well). Do not follow my suggestions; check with your physician, of course.
Best regards,
Dave.
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richtea
sage
Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 203
Loc: UK Yorkshire
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"I have had a stroke and can't fight about it, this time. Believe me or not."
Cheers,
Bill
I too wish Bill a speedy recovery
As one of the few members on the Forum who can make me laugh out loud with that wry humour and equally educate with vast knowledge lets hope a personal "re-collimation " can be done
Regards
RichT
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Carl Zeiss MC Jenoptem 10 x 50
Nikon SE 10 x 42
Nikon E11 8 x 30 + 10 x 35
Bresser/Meade x2 10 x 50(40)
Pentax Papilo 6.5 x 21
Minolta Activa WP FP 8 x 40
Praktica WA Lanthanum x2 8 x 25
Swift Audubon 804 FMC 8.5x 44
Fujinon CD Phase Coated Roof 7 x 42
Opticron Minerva Porro 9 x 35
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