Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
|
|
The U. S. Navy recently bought some of the Kazan (KOMZ) 20 x 110, with stands. Why, and for what purpose? That is a more complicated ( too complicated) prism setup than the Novosibirsk 15 x 110 under discusssion. Mike Rivkin ( "Deutsche Optik"), Mitch at Sovietski, and Vladimir Wolf, were all selling those two models at much lower prices just a few years ago. Every one I saw had yellowish tint in the images, and were out of collimation .
But the field of the 15 x 110 is impressive, and I did not have complaints about images, other than the collimation and yellow glass problems. That is an elegant design, which deserves better glass and mechanical quality control .
In DK eyewitness travel series "Cuba", a beautifully illustrated guide to travel there, there appears on p. 239 a photo of a mounted KOMZ 20 x 110 ( 90 deg. field, 60 (?) viewing inclination , at an observation post called Mirador los Maloes, which overlooks the U. S. installation at Guantanamo. Perhaps somebody wanted to find out what the Cubans could see, and decided to recommend that the U. S. Navy buy some?
|
holger_merlitz
sage
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 281
|
|
Hi Gordon,
The fact that the US Navy bought these 20x110 implies that they still regard them higher than the current Chinese products - perhaps due to the wider field of view? I once asked one guy in Kunming whether they were planning to build something of similar design, but unfortunately he thought there would be no way. Todays customers always ask for low weight, the heavy units simply do not sell. As a result, the prisms are usually undersized and we have to live with narrow fields of view or small exit pupils.
A friend of mine owns one of these 15x110, and it is also out of collimation. Do you happen to know how to fix them? Once I find some time I would try to collimate them but so far I have no clue which screw to turn :-)
Cheers,
Holger
|
Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
|
|
Quote:
But the field of the 15 x 110 is impressive, and I did not have complaints about images, other than the collimation
Maybe this link can be some useful?
http://www.telescopes.ru/manuals/pnb1/pnb1_manual.phtml
Bye.
|
Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 11709
|
|
I have looked through one of these at twilight. With such a large exit pupil you would expect a bright view, and the view was bright and clear. I did not look at stars. They cost about $3000 a few years ago at online sources.
It is an attractive binocular style-wise, but the fit and finish don't come close to the competition. Very very rough metal work on the fork and mount. It is heavy for its size. If I am not mistaken it also features that common Russian optical "yellow" tinge in the view due to one of the glass elements. This binocular would be fun to have if it could be gotten cheaply, but given the huge selection of good quality Chinese giant binoculars, it is not a good buy today.
|
GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 179
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
|
|
Hi, on my website, you can find a review here: http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/15x110/15x110.php
unfortunately it's in italian language but you can unterstand by babelfilsh altavita (i hope :-)
Best
Pier
--------------------
[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
|
Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
|
|
Quote:
Hi, on my website, you can find a review here: http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/15x110/15x110.php
Hi, I've alredy mentioned your page, with a link to the Google translated one :-)
Quote:
unfortunately it's in italian
E c'hai ragione, nun ce se capisce un c... ehm ... tubbo! ;-)
|
Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
|
|
Re: prism in Novosibirsk 15 x 110 and prism in Busch 10 x 80 with 45 deg inclination from World War II ( Holger Merlitz). I have never been inside the 15 x 110,nor do I have a specimen, but have been inside many Busch design 10 x 80, and have a copy of its plans (via a WW II Leitz file, about 100 pages,which I found after extensive research, fragments of which appear in the Seeger book(without credit)). The roof angle tolerance in the Busch design's Schmidt prism is 10 seconds of arc. While the 10 x 80 offsets the beam( center of outgoing beam to the eyepiece is offset laterally with respect to the center of the beam entering the prism from the center of the objective lens), I believe that the roof splits the light cone (asymmetrically). I have seen barely detectable( at 10x) double images in one or two Busch built (cxn) 10 x 80, but never in a Schneider (dkl) nor in a Leitz (beh). There exist 20 x 80 which used the same eyepiece as the Zeiss 12 x 60. Were those prisms made to a tighter roof tolerance?
The 15 x 110 prism, which is not a Schmidt prism, seems to have a much greater offset laterally, so much that one can consider the possibility that the roof line does not split the cone ( Amici II), with 30 deg overall deviation of the line of sight, in the case of the 15 x 110 from Novosibirsk. Any 15 x 110 split, if it exists, is very asymmetic. When a roof prism does not split the beam, the roof angle tolerance can be much looser. Errors in the roof angle, in this case, result in image rotation, rather than double images.
With all the oil money in Siberia , one can hope that someone will invest in the optical factory in Novosibirsk, to diversify local industry, and improve the mechanisms and the glass.
|
GlennLeDrew
sage
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 286
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
|
|
At NEAF in 2002 I looked through a pair and was astonished at the prominent yellowish cast. It didn't appear as though there were yellow filters in place, either. Many other Russian optics I've used delivered yellowish images as well, and there absolutely were no filters causing it. I think some glass types they use(d) did at least some of this, as well as the choice of coating thickness (hence transmission color.)
To me, the most impressive aspect of these beasties was the huge apparent field of view.
--------------------
Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
|
Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
|
|
The path of the August total solar eclipse passes near or on Novosibirsk. I shall not attend, but if there is a binocular fan visiting that part of Siberia at the eclipse, perhaps they could find out why the Tal factory does not use clear glass, etc.
|
hallelujah
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1419
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
|
|
IOR B/GA 10x42 binoculars come with attached objective caps which contain yellow filters for low light situations.
http://www.valdada.com/product/eab76668-4518-4099-82b2-26e37cad7653.aspx
Supposedly, some European binoculars have the built-in yellow, in their optics, to cut through haze.
http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/003587
Hunters, for example, use yellow eyeglasses, for target practice, under cloudy skies.
Yellow Filter
--------------------
Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/Japan
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/Japan
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/Japan
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (07/21/08 10:47 PM)
|
Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
|
|
This has been discussed before, here and in at least two other binocular enthusiast sites ( one now defunct), and the consensus has been that Soviet/Russian glass is yellow because of quality control problems, not because of haze penetration, radiation protection, etc. Possibly misguided or oddball engineering? Would you want yellow images in low light situations, if clear images were available? I would not.
|
hallelujah
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1419
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
|
|
Quote:
Would you want yellow images in low light situations, if clear images were available? I would not.
Obviously there ARE those folks out there who DO want the results from yellow filters and or/optics, otherwise there would not be a market for same.
Fujinon as well as IOR and Leupold ALL sell yellow filters for their binoculars.
Obviously SOMEONE (optics manufacturers and optics customers) feels that there IS a legitimate application for the use of same.
Here are other possible answers:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=71911
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/ior7x40.html
--------------------
Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/Japan
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/Japan
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/Japan
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (07/22/08 11:17 PM)
|
Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
|
|
Quote:
have a copy of its plans (via a WW II Leitz file, about 100 pages, which I found after extensive research, fragments of which appear in the Seeger book(without credit)).
Hi,
I've read only today your post - may you please give the link to the Leitz file? Thanks.
|
Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 427
|
|
The microfilm and the paper copies have not been scanned into electronically transmittable form. There are also sights for the Panther tank, plans for the optics and the production tools for the 8 x 60 wide field binocular, the 150 or 180 mm. binocs shown on the roof of the Leitz factory in the Seeger book, and many other things , which I have forgotten.
|
|
4 registered and 21 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: EdZ
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 3092
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
