JimP
sage
Reged: 04/22/03
Posts: 345
Loc: South Carolina
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Since you are looking at the image projected on a screen what is the difference between this and a Collins I3 eyepiece with an adapter to let you use two eyes to look at the same screen?
JimP
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27282
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Two eyes. A bunch of accessories in the works. The bandpasses are different. The Collins is basically out of production.
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Larry F
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 1382
Loc: Westchester, NY
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Quote:
It's a neat idea, but it's a shame that such a thing is necessary for some observers. Until we can get light pollution laws with teeth here in the US, desperate observers will have to rely on light amplification gadgets. 
There would have to be no lights anywhere to darken the skies enough to compare with the BIPH. We'd be back to the pitch-darkness of the 17th century, dark enough so that in downtown Seville Count Almaviva can mistake his wife for the serving-maid Susanna (Mozart's "Marriage of Figaro", Act IV). But if it were that dark, I'd never able to find the bloody focus knob on my scope much less anther eyepiece.
Like everything in our hobby, the BIPH can't do it all. It's better for some objects than others. It's monochromatic, which may or may not bother you. There's scintillation to a greater or lesser degree, which may or may not bother you. There are a few black spots on every tube, which may or may not bother you. It's expensive, which may or may not bother you. On the other hand, it triples your aperture and allows you to see things you've never seen before. The last time I saw the North American Nebula was with 7x50 binos from 9,000 feet in the pitch-black Colorado Rockies; Doug showed it to me from his driveway in suburban Westchester (maybe 150 feet above sea level and 35 miles north of Times Square) on a very hazy, very humid night, with a H-alpha filter in front of the cheapie 105 mm C-mount lens on the BIPH. It's hard not to be a believer. And the thought of it on a 30" scope!
I figure the conversation will probably go like this:
LARRY: I ordered a BIPH.
ELYSE: You're spending 4 grand on ANOTHER telescope thing?
LARRY: No, I'm saving $50,000 by not buying a 20" Meade.
ELYSE: Come on, that's not really saving. You're still spending $4 grand.
LARRY: But when you bought your mink coat you explained that you actually hadn't spent money, you saved thousands because of the discount.
ELYSE: [Glaring]
LARRY: [Reminder to self: buy some jewelry for her, too.]
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C5 Orange Tube SCT
Orion 127 Mak
SV Nighthawk (1st generation)
CPC 800 XLT SCT
Coronado Maxscope 40
Denk II Binos
Giro 2/Tech2000 Giro Driver/Tech2000 QuickDraw Pier
A zillion eyepieces and some more mounts
Mason & Hamlin BB 214 cm (piano)
My Gallery
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27282
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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In my case, I've found it's distinctly better to spend the money for her first, and instead of all in one lump sum, spread it out over a couple months.
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Mogster
sage
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 294
Loc: Manchester, England
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Hmmm, quite tempted. This has to be the future of backyard astronomy.
If it worked on galaxies I'd be more interested though, it doesn't sound like its the complete package, yet.
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CPC 9.25, Orion 127 Mak, WO Zenithstar 2 80APO, Coronado PST, Pentax 12X50 WP
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 428
Loc: East Tennessee
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Galaxies ARE enhanced some with 3rd gen night vision but nowhere near the increase shown with stars and nebulas. I believe Doug is working on something for galaxies. I hope it is successful and in a filter form so I can use with my IIE.
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27282
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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I'm not sure enhanced is the right term. Not harmed to badly, might be more appropriate. OTOH, if the galaxy is edge on, that does usually do better.
Doug is working on improving the response.
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Larry F
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 1382
Loc: Westchester, NY
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Quote:
In my case, I've found it's distinctly better to spend the money for her first, and instead of all in one lump sum, spread it out over a couple months.
An accurate description of our 24 years of marriage.
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C5 Orange Tube SCT
Orion 127 Mak
SV Nighthawk (1st generation)
CPC 800 XLT SCT
Coronado Maxscope 40
Denk II Binos
Giro 2/Tech2000 Giro Driver/Tech2000 QuickDraw Pier
A zillion eyepieces and some more mounts
Mason & Hamlin BB 214 cm (piano)
My Gallery
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AstroWheels
super member
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Mid-Michigan
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OK Tom. I know it's been a while, but you peaked my interest with this "doo-hicky"!
I was going to get a second Collins I-3 and duct tape them together, but if this comes already taped up.......
What is the referrence to the pricing "new tube vs old-tube"?
Thanks,
Don
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13" T-scope "Bertha"
6" UTI-6c traveler "Polly"
5" Televue NP-127 "Betty"
4.5" Starblast "O'l Blue"
3.5" Megrez 90 APO "Scooter"
Collins I-3 "The Eye"
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ScottAz
Fleet Navigator
Reged: 02/06/05
Posts: 1142
Loc: Millington, TN
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Thanks, Tom! I can't wait to hear more ... particularly about potential enhancements. Sounds great for sharing the sky with a group of students! 
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Scott Azmus
SV80BV, NexStar 11, & 18" Obsession 
Many Views Yield Truth
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27282
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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DON!
Great to see you.
The old tube is military surplus. The new tube is straight from the manufacturer. The old tube carries a year warrenty, whereas the new tube two years.
T
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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rodb
member
Reged: 05/19/08
Posts: 66
Loc: MD, USA, Chevy Chase (just nor...
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Quote:
Brad, it does not work in conjunction with eyepieces - rather think of it as it's own eyepiece.
T
Tom,
I guess I must be the only dumb one here. So, if you would, please explain in more detail about the mag. with different scopes, since it doesen't use external eyepieces. And is it, therefore, a low power device, only?
Also, if you're looking at a screen with two eyes, then I assume those who wear eye glasses would need them to compensate for the differing vision of each eye. Can eye glasses, in fact, be used?
Thanks a lot.
Rod
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Canon 10x42 IS Binos
Zeiss 8x42 T* FL Binos
Aus Jena 10x50B Nobilem Binos
Swarovski 80mm HD (birding/nature scope)
WO 90 Megrez and 4 TV eps (waiting on delivery as of 8/25/08)
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Larry F
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 1382
Loc: Westchester, NY
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The device has a single, wide observing lens that's wider than your eye span and allows you to use both eyes (and you don't have to get close to it either). This allows you to see a virtual image of the photomultiplier. You can wear your glasses to compensate for any visual abnormalities. The device functions like an eyepiece so you can hook it up to a telescope and get high-power views, but you can also mate it to a camera lens, which acts as a low-power refractor. Then you simply use it like a binocular. I think it has an effective focal length somewhere in the high 20's-low 30's but I'm not totally sure.
It's more comfortable than a binoviewer because there's no adjustment for interocular distance required, no merging issues and no problem with matching small exit pupils when you are using higher powers. It was also very light weight, utterly unlike a bino.
[You can also mate a regular eyepiece to a camera lens. Vivitar and others used to sell an adaptor that would allow you to use various SLR lenses as objective lenses. You just put an eyepiece on the device and voila! These are impossible to find now, but not a bad idea given the otherwise useless and unsellable manual focus SLR lenses many of us have.]
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C5 Orange Tube SCT
Orion 127 Mak
SV Nighthawk (1st generation)
CPC 800 XLT SCT
Coronado Maxscope 40
Denk II Binos
Giro 2/Tech2000 Giro Driver/Tech2000 QuickDraw Pier
A zillion eyepieces and some more mounts
Mason & Hamlin BB 214 cm (piano)
My Gallery
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BrendanF
member
Reged: 12/04/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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These are my unanswered questions for the moment:
How is the bandpass different than the Collins units? Aren't they the same type of technology?
I would be interested to see how the signal-to-noise (and actual night sky performance) compares to the thin-film Collins units. Somebody would have to look through both in similar setups, which seems like a tall order.
How do they perform as a function of F-number?
I am very tempted, since the Collins units are unavailable. Not cheap, though.
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27282
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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1) Different tube supplier. Very similar, but not exactly the same.
2) Not really a tall order at all, since we already did that. Yes, a group of us actually looked through BOTH units, side by side that night. Performance was pretty similar. Some targets this unit seemed to have an edge, others the Collins. Everybody agreed that two eyes beat one hands down however. There are some other differences - the screens are different resolution too. I don't remember which was higher, but the differences were subtle.
3) not sure what you mean by f-number. Focal ratio? Performance seemed "better" (less noise) in the f10 SCT (better baffling perhaps?)
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Gerard
member
Reged: 03/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: Oostvoorne, The Netherlands
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Hi,
Being based on military equipment will it be available to the rest of the world or is it just for the US?
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Gerard
12" LightBridge
Skywatcher 150mm f5 refractor
Giro III
Argo Navis
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27282
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Hi Gerard,
It's my understanding that they are currently exploring options for offering this device overseas.
T
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Deep13
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/25/05
Posts: 1454
Loc: NE Ohio
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Doesn't this amount to sitting too close to the TV set?
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Preserve the night sky. Join the Internat. Dark Sky Assn. for less than a cheap eyepiece.
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Don Allen
member
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 32
Loc: Charleston, SC
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Does it required a 2" diagonal?
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Don
SV 102ED SN 52
Giro Alt/Az
NGC Mini-Max
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27282
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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If you are going to use it in a diagonal, yes.
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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