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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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KGE
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Posts: 19
Loc: Connecticut
Zeiss Binoculars new
      #2543251 - 07/26/08 08:55 PM

Check these out:

http://www.trinitymarine.co.uk/displayproduct.phtml?product_id=1502&category_id=

I've never seen these before.

Kevin

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holger_merlitz
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: KGE]
      #2543475 - 07/26/08 11:34 PM

Very interesting for collectors. But if you really want to use it, you better go for a Fujinon, have much superior performance for much less money.

Holger


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werewolf6977
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: holger_merlitz]
      #2544922 - 07/27/08 07:46 PM

Geeze Louise!!!!

--------------------
Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop


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edwincjones
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: werewolf6977]
      #2544937 - 07/27/08 07:53 PM

those would really get attention at a star party, but the price seems a little high

edj

--------------------

n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy



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Gordon Rayner
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Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 506
Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: edwincjones]
      #2546466 - 07/28/08 03:12 PM

I have seen two of those. I agree with Holger Merlitz.

Incidentally, the 15 x 80 Fuji in Puerto Rico now on ebay seems to be one that I sold or serviced a long time ago. The ad has my phone number.


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ronharper
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #2547546 - 07/29/08 12:44 AM

Gordon,
The 15x80 is a very little known instrument around here. As maybe the only one of us who has seen one, could you (or anybody else if there is anybody else) tell us a little about it? For all the heavy duty mechanics and expense, is it really optically much better than the 16x70?
Ron


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Gordon Rayner
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Reged: 03/24/07
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: ronharper]
      #2548691 - 07/29/08 04:15 PM

The Fuji 15 x 80 is at least f/6, with air spaced doublet objectives, and has a correspondingly long focal length eyepiece. There is substantial eye relief, I believe enough for full-field use with spectacles or sunglasses. The prisms are Porro II. I never saw a multicoated one, but the current production could be so treated. I do not know. I believe that they are subcontracted. The construction is very similar to the wartime 15 x 80. Image quality is high over a 60 deg. field. I have had fun with these in stargazing. I do not have a 16 x 70, nor have I used one.
The 15 x 80 can be a bear to work on, as there are aluminum-brass interfaces subject to virtual gluing when subjected to salt water spray over a long period, yet involved parts are thinner than the corresponding elements on the Nikon 20 x 120 or the Fuji 25 x 150 I (with trunnions), so will not withstand high torques in attempts to free the ocular mechanisms or the IPD bearings and the bearing covers. One of the the three bearing cover retaining screws is not accessible with normal screwdrivers if the bearing is frozen. It is difficult to apply high torques via right angle screwdrivers, and even more near-impossible to drill out the screw which is semi-hidden under the prism housing in the corroded immobile state of the bearing. Of course, such a situation would not result from astronomy, bird watching or similar terrestrial applications.

I made, and still have, some male Delrin shafts to mate the hole in the attached pintle mounting. I tapped these shafts' bases 3/8-16.

I have two or three of the 15 x 80 which need some parts and work.

Nikon made a 15 x 80 postwar. High quality. I have not seen one for over 20 years. They were also very similar to the wartime production, but coated. The Nippon Kogaku catalogs in the l960's showed a 60 deg. inclined version, again very similar to the wartime production . I saw and photographed some of these, and ones by TOKO ( Topcon) on some Japanese Naval Self-Defence Force training ships. They had coated optics. The ships also had several postwar versions of straight Toko and Nippon Kogaku 20 x 120 x 3 deg. These have much shorter eye relief than the 15 x 80 or 15 x 105. Do not know if there was any postwar 15 x 105 production, either in the straight view or in the inclined view versions.


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ronharper
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #2548820 - 07/29/08 05:21 PM

Gordon,
The 15x80 sounds very pleasant to use, and with such objectives, must give very sharp views. Thanks also for the glimpse into the life of the optical repair man. One man's corroded disaster is, thank goodness, another's fun challenge.
Ron


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EdZModerator
Professor EdZ
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: ronharper]
      #2548865 - 07/29/08 05:52 PM

Quote:

The 15x80 sounds very pleasant to use, and with such objectives, must give very sharp views.




Just a suspicion, but I'd guess at the expense of gaining a very bright view, it gives up quite a bit at the edges. At f/6 these would be using 32mm eyepieces, as opposed to a typical binocular with about 18-20mm eyepieces. It is not nearly as easy to correct a 32mm eyepieces as it is to correct an 18-20mm eyepiece, even for f/6. As an example the 32mm TV plossl is not nearly as well corrected as the 20mm TV plossl. Nor is the 30mm Ultima as well corrected as the 18mm Ultima.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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KennyJ

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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: EdZ]
      #2548939 - 07/29/08 06:33 PM

Gordon ,

You and I may not have history akin to being closest of friends , but being a firm believer of credit where due , just wanted to say that your latest contribution to this thread is a credit to your rarely found , and even more rarely SHARED knowledge of mechanical and technical aspects of specialised binoculars .

Thank you !

Kenny

--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton





Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: KennyJ]
      #2549286 - 07/29/08 09:44 PM

Very true, thank you Gordon and thank you Kenny!

--------------------
Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP

Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth


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Gordon Rayner
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 506
Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: hallelujah]
      #2549489 - 07/29/08 11:16 PM

Ed, I fear that you have it reversed.
If you have or can get a copy of Mil Handbook 141, Optical Design, read the chapter on design of the complete telescope( including a binocular with prisms in the example he gives), and the eyepiece design section, by Robt. E. Hopkins. He was a prof at the Univ. of Rochester Institute of Optics for many years, wrote much of the cited Mil Handbook, and designed the eyepiece in the WW II wide angle Bausch & Lomb 7 x 50 with 5 element oculars. ( The Kunming suppliers and their importers should make something like that the basis of the 7 x 50, 10.5 x 70, 15 x 85, 20 x 110. Larger prisms and a new basic body would be required. Perhaps Markus Luddes will back this one also. I have the optical drawing and some of the mechanical specifications somewhere, but have not seen it for years. Another copy could be obtained, or could be obtained in the past.) I do not know Hopkins' whereabouts. I last saw him at SPIE a long time ago. His daughter was in a Spanish class with me. He was one of the founders of Tropel, whose products appeared at the forefront of microprocessor lithography.

In Mil Handbook 141 and/or in the Kingslake edited series on Optical Instruments, or elsewhere in his highly respected writings, Hopkins said that eyepiece performance, and the work of the designer, improves with focal length, other things being equal. I may have seen this in Bruce Walker, Warren Smith, Koenig and Koehler, etc. also.
Mil. Handbook 141 was available free for a long time. I have seen it for sale by Deutsche Optik, Surplus Shed(?), and probably elsewhere. I am sure that there is still probably a copy in the library at the Institute of Optics at the Univ. of Rochester, N. Y. It is of course, very dated, but contains much valuable basic information.

I have no explanation for the Tele-Vue examples you give, and cannot comment. Perhaps Al Nagler would . Though fairly widely read in the field, I am not a lens designer, nor have I played more than ten minutes with the free online OSLO program, though would like to play with it or Zemax or others, and become proficient in some optical CAD program , in particular for elaboration and addings graphics to my hp48 mirror virtual roof Amici general inclination angle design program mentioned in the recent Macau 200 mm. binocular thread.
The annual SPIE convention is upcoming. Perhaps some attendee can put this eyepiece focal length vs. performance/design difficulty question to Warren Smith or one of the other experts with experience .


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Vincent33
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Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #2549739 - 07/30/08 04:25 AM

Quote:

Mil. Handbook 141 was available free for a long time. I have seen it for sale by Deutsche Optik,
[...]




Here: http://www.ecalculations.com/


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Vincent33
member


Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #2549743 - 07/30/08 04:42 AM

Quote:

I am not a lens designer, nor have I played more than ten minutes with the free online OSLO program, though would like to play with it or Zemax or others, and become proficient in some optical CAD program
[...]





A freeware: MODAS
http://members.kabsi.at/i.krastev/modas/

Cheers.


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Wes James
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #2549798 - 07/30/08 07:06 AM

Quote:

Incidentally, the 15 x 80 Fuji in Puerto Rico now on ebay seems to be one that I sold or serviced a long time ago.



I've been unable to find these on eBay... any item number you can provide?
Thanks!
Wes


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EdZModerator
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Re: Zeiss Binoculars [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #2549885 - 07/30/08 08:34 AM

ALL of the following shorter eyepieces have better outer field edge correction than those to which they are compared. As you can see, in practice, in all cases the longer focal length eyepieces have lower correction. Of course you can feed an f/15 light cone into any one of those longer eyepieces and they will do just fine. But at f/6, in every instance, the shorter f eyepiece of the same family will show much better correction.

15mm and 20mm TV plossls better than 25mm and 32mm TV plossls
12.5mm and 18mm Celestron Ultimas better than 30mm Ultima
12.5mm Celestron plossls better than 40mm Celestron plossl
17mm Sirius plossl better than 26mm Sirius plossl
15mm and 21mm RKE better than 28mm RKE
20mm Meade 5K plossl better than 26mm 5K plossl
Oberwerk 10mm WA better than 24.5mm WA

Mil. Handbook 141 is available thru the Web links at the top of this forum.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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Vincent33
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Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
Re: Zeiss Binoculars new [Re: EdZ]
      #2549891 - 07/30/08 08:40 AM

Hi EdZ,
but the problem, here, doesn't lie in WHAT the objectives gives to the oculars to enlarge? Cheers.


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