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Magellan
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/06
Posts: 502
Loc: Dartmouth, NS Canada
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What is after the Messier's? Is there anything that is awe inspiring like some of the Messier's? within reach of a 4" refractor?
I know there are a lot of things to look at but really, can you top M57? I like OCs/GCs/PNs but I fear I will have seen the best I can with a 4" scope once I am done the Messier's.
Sure I have an 8" dob, Very OLD dob but its bulky and not easy to move around. But is a 4" refractor and an EQ5 mount? lol
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Jeff D
Coulter Odyssey 2 8" Dobsonian
Celestron Nexstar 102SLT
Antares EQ-5 Mount
Celestron Skymaster 15x70
Messier Certificate Count: 44/110
St. Croix Observatory RASC-Halifax
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cildarith
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 2049
Loc: San Diego, CA
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You might try a few of these: The RASC's Finest N.G.C. Objects List. Or all of them, for that matter! 
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Eric
6" f/6 Parks Newtonian
10x50 Bushnell Binocs
CN Sketch Gallery
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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 1802
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
I know there are a lot of things to look at but really, can you top M57? I like OCs/GCs/PNs but I fear I will have seen the best I can with a 4" scope once I am done the Messier's.
The Messier list is moderately complete w.r.t. bright galaxies, and startlingly complete w.r.t. bright globular clusters. But I'd say that it includes fewer than half of the spectacular open clusters and planetary nebulae, so you're in luck.
Messier tended to overlook planetary nebulae in particular because of their small size. Tons of them are visible with a 4-inch scope.
The obvious reference work for you is Sue French's Celestial Sampler. And no, I'm not just saying that because my company publishes the book and/or because I'm a friend of hers. But Sue and Steve O'Meara are undoubtedly the best and best-known 4-inch-refractor observers around.
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Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
Edited by Tony Flanders (07/29/08 01:43 PM)
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xfile101
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/08/07
Posts: 730
Loc: Ocean Gate, NJ
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The Cat's Eye Nebula (NGC6543, Draco), the Turtle Nebula (NGC6210, Hercules), the Blinking Nebula (NGC6826, Cygnus) and the Little Gem Nebula (NGC6818, Sagittarius) are planetary nebula which should all be within the limits of a 4" even in moderate LP. They are small but pretty darn bright. As globular's go, a ton in Ophiuchus, Sagittarius and Scorpius besides the Messier's should be visible. And scads of open clusters other than the M's would definitely be visible. Trust me, there are plenty of everything you like, beyond the Messier's, that you can see in that scope. Just grab a chart and search them out, I would hunt them down by constellation, you're going to be surprised at what you'll see 
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Orion XT8I
Celestron 114EQ Firstscope
Meade 70mm
Astroscan
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 270
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
But Sue and Steve O'Meara are undoubtedly the best and best-known 4-inch-refractor observers around.
Hmmmm, O'Meara - yes, French - I'm not entirely sold on that one...
Best and best known don't necessarily go hand in hand. I'll give her the 'best known' part though because she took over the column from Walter Scott Houston (that name may make both lists).
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Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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skypilgrim
sage
Reged: 12/25/06
Posts: 379
Loc: Under a cloud
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I'll just add to the other comments that from a sufficiently dark site, pretty much the entire Herschel list is within reach of your 4". I had heard of others completing the list with a 4" so I tried it for a few nights with a 4" apo I had at the time. Sure, some of those faint galaxies were mere smudges, but with a little patience I was finding every one I tried. This was from a pretty dark site mind you.
I'll agree with the other person who suggested open clusters. OC's are my favorite objects in a refractor, (double stars are right up there too). Try the AL OC list, many of those are "awe inspiring" in your scope.
Sam
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Equipment:
Scope #1: 5" refractor.
Scope #2: 3" refractor.
Daughters scope: XT6 dobsonian.
Area of interest: Ethnoastronomy
My Blog: http://fathersky.wordpress.com/
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JohanK
super member
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Ghent, Belgium
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Quote:
Hmmmm, O'Meara - yes, French - I'm not entirely sold on that one...
From the viewpoint of an advanced amateur, this may be true.
But for a beginner with a small telescope, the writings of O'Meara may be overkill. Even with my 10" I'm unable to see all the details he describes in "The Messier Objects" or "Hidden Treasures". His 'quick views' in The Herschel 400 Guide, on the other hand, match much better with my own observations.
I think Tony Flanders made a very good recommendation with Celestial Sampler.
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Johan
Orion XT10
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 270
Loc: Arizona
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I agree, the Sampler recommendation is good. But I'm not buying Sue French as the "best 4-inch-refractor observer around"...., given the present company found on this site and a few refractor people I know that don't visit this site.
Other than that I think Tony's post was good.
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Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 1802
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
I'm not buying Sue French as the "best 4-inch-refractor observer around"
I have no desire to argue the point. Frankly, "best" is a dumb word, and almost always impossible to defend. Let's relegate the word to barroom brawls about sports figures, and keep it out of astronomy.
All I can tell you is that Sue spends a larger fraction of her time with her 4-incher than most serious observers, and that she's unbelievably skillful with it (and other scopes). She can see stuff using that scope from her semi-rural home (orange zone in the Light Pollution Atlas) that challenges me -- and many other observers -- when using twice the aperture under dark skies.
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Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 6641
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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Boy,do I ever agree about the usage of the word "best" as well. I cringe every time every it's seen and usually avoid a thread that features that word in the title. Definately one of my pet peeves.
Back on topic,I'd say how dark your viewing locale is the key as to how far your enjoyment is going to go on down the NGC list. The smaller the aperture the darker the site needs to be to suit me,especially with only a 4 inch scope.
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Kenny
"Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."
Frederick the Great
Edited by KWB (07/30/08 05:30 PM)
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 270
Loc: Arizona
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Well Tony, it's good you're recanting on the use of the word 'best'. My comment wasn't meant to offend, just to distinguish between the two, best and best known in your post. I'm not knocking Sue either, I'm just not elevating her to some pedestal above others who spend as much time with their scopes in whatever sky conditions they have access to and still see some pretty faint objects is all.
Ok, enough of that, back to our regularly scheduled program....
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Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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GlennLeDrew
sage
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 325
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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I wouldn't be surprised if nearly all the lists of celestial targets you'd care to examine would contain, in aggregate, less than 0.5% dark nebulae, and probably less than 0.1%.
A very much overlooked DSO, the dark nebula. If you have access to a reasonably dark sky, you should ferret at least some of them out. Even a humble binocular will reveal scores, if not hundreds.
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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astrokido
super member
Reged: 06/09/08
Posts: 158
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Here's another list of objects derived from the Orion DeepMap 600 list, it's conveniently sorted by constellation: here
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- Gill C. - All opinions subject to a speed limit of 299,792,458 m/s.
Nikon D40 - Bushnell 10x25 - Zhumell 20x80 - Celestron Cometron CO-100
skyatlas.rgbstore.com - cool sky charts, photo overlays, and data tables
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Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 1947
Loc: Missouri / United States
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I like Sue French's column in S&T, but have to agree with those commenting above that classing her with Stephen O'Meara is a stretch.
But, back on topic...
Jeff, having finished your Messiers with a 4-inch refractor, you are truly just getting STARTED.  Nothing to be depressed about. With a bit of imagination and effort, you could spend the rest of your life enjoying the night sky with that scope.
Lots of good advice has already been provided above. A fun project to pursue after the Messier club is the Astro League Double Star program. I was surprised by how much fun I had with that program. Easily accomplished from an urban backyard (though a few of the objects have gotten too close together, since the list was created, to be easily split with an amateur scope).
And that's just the start of double stars. They go on and on.
Carbon stars are lots of fun, too. Try T Lyrae, which is readily observable now. Many carbon stars look REALLY red. Sometimes star colors you read about aren't really that apparent. Or, the color you see is different from what others see. The issue has to do with all the different factors affecting the observation. Carbon stars, on the other hand, usually DO look strikingly different than ordinary stars. To make observing them even more enjoyable, try reading up on why they look so red. James Kaler's Extreme Stars (which might be available from your local library) talks about them in some detail. (pp. 60-64). Or why not add a copy to your personal astronomy library?
The more time you spend reading about and researching deep sky objects, the more you will find you can see, and enjoy seeing(!) with your 4-inch refractor.
Here is another tip, if you live near a Half-Price bookstore, they are terrifically good at stocking remaindered astronomy books at bargain prices. James Mullaney's Double and Multiple Stars and How to Observe Them just showed up at Half-Price in Kansas City. I snapped it up for $7.98. I generally check Half-Price on a weekly basis to see if anything new has shown up in the Astronomy section. (Just one of the sections I keep an eye on...)
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Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
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Mr. Mike
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 565
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Quote:
What is after the Messier's? Is there anything that is awe inspiring like some of the Messier's? within reach of a 4" refractor?
I know there are a lot of things to look at but really, can you top M57? I like OCs/GCs/PNs but I fear I will have seen the best I can with a 4" scope once I am done the Messier's.
Sure I have an 8" dob, Very OLD dob but its bulky and not easy to move around. But is a 4" refractor and an EQ5 mount? lol
Here is a website that has lots of good object lists, downloadable PDF star maps, and PDF object tables. GREAT site, IMO. There are TONS of objects that you can see with your 4" scope. This site has Caldwell, NGC, Herschel, etc, etc.
http://www.ngc891.com/
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Stellarvue NextGen 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Takahashi LE 7.5mm
Meade UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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