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hammerhead
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/18/07
Posts: 658
Loc: MA
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I'd like to hear some input on the Nagler 20mm T5. I'm wondering if I'll be as happy with it as I have been with my 22T4... which I love and hate to part with. Why part with it, you might ask?
Bit of a long story, but the short version is that I decided to shake up my EP case a bit. After a year of ownership I've decided I'm just not happy with my 5mm and 7mm T6's. So I'm going to sell them and replace with Pentax XW's in the same focal lengths. I love my 10mm XW, so I figure it's worth a shot.
That's how it started. Then I got to thinking that I should tidy up the EP case some while I'm upgrading my shorter focal lengths. So I decided that I really should sell my 17T4 since, truthfully, I really don't use it much since I got my 13E a year and a half ago or so. And.... while I'm being honest with myself, my 31mm T5 doesn't really get used like it should. The main reason being that the background is just too grey for my liking because of the light polluted skies I'm always observing in. Folks have been suggesting to me for quite a while now that I'd probably be happier with the 26mm T5 than I am with the 31mm T5.
So I figure there's no time like the present and maybe I should get that deal done now as well. But replacing the 31 with the 26 means that the 22 will probably be redundant now..... which brings me ALL the way back around to why I'm inquiring about the 20T5.... which would replace the 22T4.
I don't recall reading/hearing much about this particular Nagler. Is it the dog of the bunch? A good performer? How does it compare to the 22T4? Any and all input is much appreciated!
To summarize the confusion above.... I'd like to turn my current 31T5, 22T4, 17T4, 13E, 10XW, 7T6, 5T6.......into...... 26T5, 20T5, 13E, 10XW, 7XW, and 5XW..... with the 20T5 being the big question mark. 
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-Brian
12" Lightbridge w/ Moonlite and Argo Navis
8" f6 Discovery PDHQ with Protostar quartz secondary and Destiny curved spider
Orion 8" SCT
WO Megrez 110ED
30mm Masuyama, 26mmT5, 20mmT5, 13Ethos, 10mmXW, 7mmXW, and 5mmXW, Nagler 3-6mm Zoom and 15mm, 11mm, & 8mm TV Plossls
Oberwork 15X70, Coronado 10x25 Solar, Orion 7x50.
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Tom D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/29/04
Posts: 1589
Loc: Boca Raton, FL
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I have a Nagler 5T6, 3-6 zoom, 9T6, 13T6, 20T5, and 26T5. Some people have posted in other threads on CN that the 20T5 is the best ep TV has ever made. I can't argue with that. As for the 31T5, I got it, used it, bought a Pentax 30mm XW, compared it with the 31T5, sold them both and bought the 26T5. Except for its longer fl, the 26T5 is everything the 20T5 is.
Tom
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Orion ShortTube 80 (f/5.0)
Stellarvue SV105 (TMB/LZOS f/6.2)
DiscMounts DM-4/Sky Commander XP4
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
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Biff
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/04/05
Posts: 2107
Loc: Courtice, Ontario
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I have a 20T5 and love it, can't find any flaws. You are aware that there is less eye relief than the T4 series? You have to lightly nestle your eye into the cup on this one (which I like) but I think there might be issues if you need to wear glasses.
Ryan
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Ryan
Antares 200mm f/6 Dob & 130mm f/5 Travel Dob.
Projects on the go...
- a couple 80mm SS refractors on the back burner.
- a few small mirrors awaiting polishing
- 260mm f/7.15 mirror... still polishing
Member of DRAA
 My house.
 DRAACO
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hammerhead
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/18/07
Posts: 658
Loc: MA
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Thanks for pointing that out Ryan. It's actually a positive thing for me though. I don't wear eyeglasses and tend to really crowd the eyepiece when I'm observing. With my Pentax XW I have to twist up the eyecup almost all the way to avoid kidney beaning when I start mashing my eye down in there. And I actually prefer some of my plossls for planetary and lunar work over some 'planetaries' that I've owned in the past. So I guess I'm a short eye relief kinda guy.
Hmmmmm... this is all looking better and better to me!
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-Brian
12" Lightbridge w/ Moonlite and Argo Navis
8" f6 Discovery PDHQ with Protostar quartz secondary and Destiny curved spider
Orion 8" SCT
WO Megrez 110ED
30mm Masuyama, 26mmT5, 20mmT5, 13Ethos, 10mmXW, 7mmXW, and 5mmXW, Nagler 3-6mm Zoom and 15mm, 11mm, & 8mm TV Plossls
Oberwork 15X70, Coronado 10x25 Solar, Orion 7x50.
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29583
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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I like the eye relief too along with the view it gives. It is my favorite TV EP of all the ones I own (35pan, 11,9,5mm NT6,3-6zoom). If I had to sell all but 2 EPs I would keep the 20 and zoom.
Tom D.: I've never looked through the 26T5 and I've always wondered if it is enough of a difference to justify owning it along with the 20NT5. I hardly use the 35mm pan and go straight to the 20...although I still use the 35 and love it when I need it.
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Tom 
12" f/5 DSO Dob
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4210
Loc: Bosham, UK
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I love the 20T5, probably my favourite Nagler of them all. As Ryan says, eye relief is less than the T4s but not seriously limited - I don't get along well with real short eye relief eyepieces, but have no worries with the 20T5. Apart from that I can't think of anything negative to say about it. It's just a great eyepiece.
Oddly i'm thinking of going in the opposite direction now that I have a 13E on the way, would like to step from that to a slightly larger TFOV than the 20T5 ... so i'm thinking of switching to a 22T4. Never used that one, but loved the 17T4 too (just slightly less than the 20T5!). So my plan would be 3.5XW, 5XW, (8E when I have the $$$), 13E, 22T4 and maybe a 35mm Pan for occasional use, around 20mm (or 50x) is usually 'low power' for my current setup so wider fields than that aren't really necessary. A 31T5's an expensive luxury, so the Pan's probably more economic.
...so if you're interested in a trade (CONUS)... 
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Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire/TeleVue 60is/Astro-Physics 1200GTO/SBIG ST-4000XCM
80ED/HEQ5Pro, lots of other stuff...
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hammerhead
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/18/07
Posts: 658
Loc: MA
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Thanks for the responses gang. I'm feeling much more confident now about selling the 22T4 and trying out the 20T5.
Buying and selling eyepieces is such a weird thing. It's like agony and ecstasy all in one.
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-Brian
12" Lightbridge w/ Moonlite and Argo Navis
8" f6 Discovery PDHQ with Protostar quartz secondary and Destiny curved spider
Orion 8" SCT
WO Megrez 110ED
30mm Masuyama, 26mmT5, 20mmT5, 13Ethos, 10mmXW, 7mmXW, and 5mmXW, Nagler 3-6mm Zoom and 15mm, 11mm, & 8mm TV Plossls
Oberwork 15X70, Coronado 10x25 Solar, Orion 7x50.
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DeepSpaceTour
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 2940
Loc: In the dark and"WAY"out there!
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Well I have both the 26T-5 and the 31T-5,and the 31T-5 gets used the most in my reflector(this is at the dark sky site)...the 31T-5 just can't be beat for the big objects like Veil,North America neb.,Pelican,Sagittarius Star cloud,and a host of other large extended objects,or just milky way cruising,last night was the first time in a looong time that I have used the 26T-5,and that was to frame up, and give me a bit more magnification on M-33.The 26T-5 is a great eyepiece,but I use the 31T-5 a lot more.The Veil through 31T-5 and 0III filter and 17.5" at a dark sky site is something to behold "STUNNING" is the word I would use,this combo always gets ooohs and aaaaahs!! at the clubs dark sky site when people come up to have a look at the Veil.
As far as the T-4's go,well,I had the 17T-4 and it was a stunner IMO,and Al Nagler's as well,he deemed the 17T-4 to be the best Nagler of them all...this was from Al himself...and I would agree.I have never used the 22T-4 so I can't comment on it's performance.Anyway you look at it you can't lose with any of the big Naglers T-4 or T-5.
It looks to me as though you could go straight from the 13E to the 26T-5,without anything in between and be quite happy,of course your scope has a different focal length than mine so the magnification ranges and exit pupil would all be different,good luck on your decisions.
Clear skies.
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Bill
-17.5"F/5 Discovery"Truss" Dob/Dob driver/ArgoNavis
Kendrick dew control/Obsession Alt bearings
-Orion 4.5" StarBlast "SOLD" waiting for the 6"
-Antares 152-F/6.5 refractor on HEQ-5 Pro
-15x70 Binocs
-Collimating tools "LOTS"
- TV ep's *8-Ethos*13-Ethos*26T-5*31T-5*
- 2" Barlows
- Pelican1600
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Lamb0
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 560
Loc: Fairbury, Nebraska
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 20T5 
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"Have eyepiece - will travel!"
8" f/5 Dob w/2.14" sec in a 12" alum tube 'The Mortar' - w/PCorr 2° TFoV @ 36.5X ~70% illum *NICE*
Typical eyepieces: 32 Burg, 24 Pan, 20T5, 5-8 SW, Others ALL 2": Pcorr, 2X PwrMt, Ast H-b, Lum UHC + OIII
60mm $50 Walmart Special in training - aka "Backpack Observatory"
Minolta Activa 12x50 , Steiner 15X80
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Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2758
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Quote:
I'd like to hear some input on the Nagler 20mm T5. I'm wondering if I'll be as happy with it as I have been with my 22T4... which I love and hate to part with. Why part with it, you might ask?
Bit of a long story, but the short version is that I decided to shake up my EP case a bit. After a year of ownership I've decided I'm just not happy with my 5mm and 7mm T6's. So I'm going to sell them and replace with Pentax XW's in the same focal lengths. I love my 10mm XW, so I figure it's worth a shot.
That's how it started. Then I got to thinking that I should tidy up the EP case some while I'm upgrading my shorter focal lengths. So I decided that I really should sell my 17T4 since, truthfully, I really don't use it much since I got my 13E a year and a half ago or so. And.... while I'm being honest with myself, my 31mm T5 doesn't really get used like it should. The main reason being that the background is just too grey for my liking because of the light polluted skies I'm always observing in. Folks have been suggesting to me for quite a while now that I'd probably be happier with the 26mm T5 than I am with the 31mm T5.
So I figure there's no time like the present and maybe I should get that deal done now as well. But replacing the 31 with the 26 means that the 22 will probably be redundant now..... which brings me ALL the way back around to why I'm inquiring about the 20T5.... which would replace the 22T4.
I don't recall reading/hearing much about this particular Nagler. Is it the dog of the bunch? A good performer? How does it compare to the 22T4? Any and all input is much appreciated!
To summarize the confusion above.... I'd like to turn my current 31T5, 22T4, 17T4, 13E, 10XW, 7T6, 5T6.......into...... 26T5, 20T5, 13E, 10XW, 7XW, and 5XW..... with the 20T5 being the big question mark.
Brian! Are you, like, living inside my head, or what???
I finally had settled on 31T5, 22T4, 13E, 8E and now just switched to 3-6 Zoom; and was convinced I was DONE. Fini. As in "pining for the Fjords"...
But your post resurfaced a nagging doubt I continue to have: namely, would I be better served here by a 26T5 than my 31T5... And, of course, IF, I got the 26T5, well, then, the 22T4 is kinda too close... meaning maybe the 20T5...
I'll tell ya what, when you get the 26T5 and the 20T5, we can race em under our skies against the 31T5 and 22T4; at least then we'll BOTH know... And, we can match the 8E against them Pentaxen! (which I'm admittedly curious about!). 
Your dilemma is exactly what I went through when the 13E came out last year... I swapped my 35Pan for the 31T5 (didn't even consider the 26T5 at that time)...
Of course, in my case I really LOVE the immersion effect of all the T4s...
Might even be clear tonight (despite the 3 separate rain showers today already - interspersed by clear, blue and sunny skies!!!)...
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, TMB80SS, SN8
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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As an eyeglass wearer the 20T5 is out for me and so is the 26T5. I really like your 22T4 as it's an eyepiece I have actually been able to use. I've never owned the 31T5 but it would be the next logical step up for me in an F/6 or slower scope and if I lived under some darker skies.
I could make do with just 3 eyepieces in my F/4.9 scope as in it's present use from suburbia and if the decision was to make them all wide angle types,they probably would be 8mm Ethos,14mm XW and the 22T4 Nagler.
--------------------
Kenny
"Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."
Frederick the Great
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Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2758
Loc: Bolton, MA
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You are right Kenny... I went with the T4 series originally (my 12T4 was my favorite until ruthlessly removed by the 13Ethos - primary because I could use it w/ my glasses on!...
and hence my choice of the 22T4 over the 20T5...
The 31T5 is workable with glasses, but you lose some of the FOV...
But, I have subsequently foundout that using my glasses (Polycarbonate multifocals for astigmatism, presbyopia and nearsightedness) with EPs gets the lenses micro-scratched...
(and at around $350 replacement cost for the lenses, well, I gotta find a better way).
I've tried the one pair of GLASS reading glasses and a separate pair of GLASS distance glasses - but switching between 2 pair of glasses is an even bigger PITA than just taking one on/off to vary between naked eye, charts and EP time...
So, I'm just learning to deal with the "stig"; I may dust off the Dioptrix again after all, and really experiment with it. And if it really works, then just get a couple (well, 4 anyway)... At least at small exit pupils it isn't much of an issue...
The 31T5, 26T5, 22T4 and 13Ethos do accept Dioptrix... interestingly the 20T5 and the 8Ethos do NOT... down at 8mm the EP is pretty small for my big scopes (2.0mm or smaller)...
As usual, no one, perfect, answer...
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, TMB80SS, SN8
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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You're right as rain,Dave.
There is no perfect answer and there is no right or wrong answer. These are all very high quality eyepieces we are talking about. Any one selection that suits the user is going to be a winner.
--------------------
Kenny
"Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."
Frederick the Great
Edited by KWB (08/04/08 05:02 PM)
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Shawn H
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Southern France 43°56'N-4°50'E
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Brian
SELL your T4's??? Lightning should strike you for even having such a thought!!!  Shawn
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xt10i with Telrad & feather touch focuser
Starblast
15x70 Celestron Skymasters
35Stratus
27Pan
20XW
17Nag
12Nag
8 Ethos
Orion ultrablock
Astronomik OIII
Tele Vue 2x barlow
Antares 1.6x barlow
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Shawn H
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Southern France 43°56'N-4°50'E
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Dave
SELL your T4's??? Lightning should strike you too for having such a thought!!! Shawn
--------------------
xt10i with Telrad & feather touch focuser
Starblast
15x70 Celestron Skymasters
35Stratus
27Pan
20XW
17Nag
12Nag
8 Ethos
Orion ultrablock
Astronomik OIII
Tele Vue 2x barlow
Antares 1.6x barlow
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DeepSpaceTour
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 2940
Loc: In the dark and"WAY"out there!
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I said the same thing...then along came Ethos...and the T-4's were gone,the Ethos on axis light throughput and ability to release clear unequivocal superior detail, on DSO's and planets, is something to be seen.
Clear skies.
--------------------
-------------------------
Bill
-17.5"F/5 Discovery"Truss" Dob/Dob driver/ArgoNavis
Kendrick dew control/Obsession Alt bearings
-Orion 4.5" StarBlast "SOLD" waiting for the 6"
-Antares 152-F/6.5 refractor on HEQ-5 Pro
-15x70 Binocs
-Collimating tools "LOTS"
- TV ep's *8-Ethos*13-Ethos*26T-5*31T-5*
- 2" Barlows
- Pelican1600
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Shawn H
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Southern France 43°56'N-4°50'E
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OK OK OK Bill!
I just ain't selling my T4's PERIOD!! (until I get an Ethos!) Shawn
--------------------
xt10i with Telrad & feather touch focuser
Starblast
15x70 Celestron Skymasters
35Stratus
27Pan
20XW
17Nag
12Nag
8 Ethos
Orion ultrablock
Astronomik OIII
Tele Vue 2x barlow
Antares 1.6x barlow
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DeepSpaceTour
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 2940
Loc: In the dark and"WAY"out there!
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Quote:
OK OK OK Bill!
I just ain't selling my T4's PERIOD!! (until I get an Ethos!) Shawn
... ...Shawn,I here you,and I'm not knocking the 17 and 12T-4 at all,if it wasn't for the two Ethos I would still have them,they are fantastic immersive eyepieces,and I really,really liked them a "LOT"(the 12T-4 was my fav.).....but....well....then came along the.....Ethoooo...aaaaah....errrr....um...well you know 
Clear skies.
--------------------
-------------------------
Bill
-17.5"F/5 Discovery"Truss" Dob/Dob driver/ArgoNavis
Kendrick dew control/Obsession Alt bearings
-Orion 4.5" StarBlast "SOLD" waiting for the 6"
-Antares 152-F/6.5 refractor on HEQ-5 Pro
-15x70 Binocs
-Collimating tools "LOTS"
- TV ep's *8-Ethos*13-Ethos*26T-5*31T-5*
- 2" Barlows
- Pelican1600
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Shawn H
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Southern France 43°56'N-4°50'E
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Yea yea yea
OK so you guy's got more money than SENSE!!! (wish I had more money then sense!!!)  Shawn
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xt10i with Telrad & feather touch focuser
Starblast
15x70 Celestron Skymasters
35Stratus
27Pan
20XW
17Nag
12Nag
8 Ethos
Orion ultrablock
Astronomik OIII
Tele Vue 2x barlow
Antares 1.6x barlow
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hammerhead
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/18/07
Posts: 658
Loc: MA
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Well Dave.... it's done deal! Managed to sell the 31T5, 22T4, 17T4, 7T6 and 5T6... all to the same buyer! I found the Pentax XW 5mm and 7mm EP's used and bought the 26T5 and 20T5 new from Astronomics.
So... the "Big Gun" line up is now as follows:
26T5, 20T5, 13E, 10XW, 7XW, 5XW. And I've still got my TV 3-6 Zoom and my 15mm, 11mm and 8mm TV plossls for when I've got tracking.
Let me be your guinea pig!
--------------------
-Brian
12" Lightbridge w/ Moonlite and Argo Navis
8" f6 Discovery PDHQ with Protostar quartz secondary and Destiny curved spider
Orion 8" SCT
WO Megrez 110ED
30mm Masuyama, 26mmT5, 20mmT5, 13Ethos, 10mmXW, 7mmXW, and 5mmXW, Nagler 3-6mm Zoom and 15mm, 11mm, & 8mm TV Plossls
Oberwork 15X70, Coronado 10x25 Solar, Orion 7x50.
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