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Darhmabum13
member
Reged: 08/04/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Montreal Quebec Canada
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Hi!
First, please forgive my english...I live in french Montreal in Quebec Canada. We have some french forums here, but never as good as this one!
I am the new owner of an SkyQuest XT10 IntelliScope, and let me start by saying that it blew me away...The locator is fantastic and worked perfectly the first time on m51... Dont get me wrong,i love to learn my sky, but sometimes i want to get to the point fast!
I am using a tv nagler6 11mm, wich i enjoy a lot, i havent realy used the orion 25 and 10 mm that came with the scope as they are no match for the tv....
So what would you suggest, Money is no problem, i prefer to be patient and buy the best.
For planetery i have used a tv nagler6 5mm and i prefered my 11mm because of the seeing conditions. Would a nagler6 7mm do me good? Should i wait and get the ethos 8mm?
I also want to buy a longer focal eyepiece. On the tv calculator the best true field for my scope would be the 41 panoptic (2.2)... Is this a good choice, or would i be better off with the shorter nagler 31mm (2.0)...41mm has more true field but is 62° and less mag.... The 31mm gives me 82° but has more mag and less true field....So at that range, is it better to have less mag and more true field etc etc....
So all of this would give me : 7 or 8mm, 11mm, and 31 or 41mm... looks like i'm missing something between the 11 and the 31mm. Any suggestions?
And last but not least tv barlow or powermate? should I get one?
Boy it`s hard in english... I speak good but writing is another thing.
Thanks alot
Francois
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Lamb0
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 668
Loc: Fairbury, Nebraska
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 Welcome to Cloudy Nights. Hang in there Francois, your English is excellent, my French is non-existant, and my German is rusty! 
 You have a fine scope, and are off to a great start! Your f/4.7 scope will not function as well with the 41mm eyepiece due to the 8.68mm exit pupil. Even with a Paracorr the exit pupil is 7.55mm. Even fully dark adapted I have no doubt you would be as happier with the 6.56/5.71mm the 31T5 yields. 
The Ethos eyepices are truly exceptional - try before you buy, if possible. Hopefully, there is a convenient astronomy club or star party to attend. 
I love my 20T5 - it's my most used eyepiece. I really like my 2X Powermate, though some prefer the Big Barlow, either is an excellent addition to the optical toolbox. The 26T5 is a winner as well. 
The Axiom LXs are receiving many rave reviews, and the Pentax XWs are outstanding. 
Eventually, you will want a Paracorr - you'll never get the best out of your fast scope and very high quality eyepieces without one. 
Many people promote the Hyperions, they do have a decent bang for the buck, but having finally had the opportunity to compare - they are easily outclassed in contrast and edge of field performance by the eyepieces mentioned. 
 John 
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John "Have eyepiece - will travel!"
8" f/5 Dob w/2.14" sec in a 12" alum tube 'The Mortar' - w/PCorr 2° TFoV @ 36.5X ~70% illum *NICE*
Typical eyepieces: 32 Burg, 24 Pan, 20T5, 5-8 SW, Others ALL 2": Pcorr, 2X PwrMt, Ast H-b, Lum UHC + OIII
60mm $50 Walmart Special in training - aka "Backpack Observatory"
Minolta Activa 12x50 , Steiner 15X80
Edited by Lamb0 (08/06/08 03:58 AM)
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Wobrak
super member
Reged: 04/18/08
Posts: 186
Loc: SC, USA
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If money is truly no problem:
TV Nagler Type 5 31mm or 26mm
TV Ethos 13mm
TV Ethos 8mm
Pentax XW 5mm
If you want to save a little money:
Celestron Axiom LX 31mm or William Optics 28mm UWAN
TV Ethos 13mm
TV Ethos 8mm
Antares Barlow 1.6x (mainly for 8E to get to 5mm)
I don't know how the Seeing is up your way but down here anything above 200x doesn't happen often during summer months. I haven't done any viewing in the fall or winter yet but I will.
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Karl
Zhumell 20x80 Binos
Zhumell 10" Dob
WO 28mm UWAN
TV 13mm Ethos
TV 8mm Ethos
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David E
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 1751
Loc: North Carolina
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Hi Francois,
I can understand you just fine!
My opinions:
I would not get any Ethos for planetary. The Naglers will do just fine and be less money. For planets, you won't miss the "smaller" field of view. I find all my type 6 naglers perform equally well, so I'd definately consider the 7mm.
As for the 31 Nagler vs the 41 Pan, if you observe from a light polluted area, I'd go with magnification over wider field. The higher magnification of the 31 Nagler will give you better contrast and make it easier to see deep space targets.
Barlow vs Powermate: for me that's tough one, both perform very well, but I generally prefer my 2.5x Powermate.
David E
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David E
So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.
-Robert Frost
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 858
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Quote:
Hi Francois,
I can understand you just fine!
My opinions:
I would not get any Ethos for planetary. The Naglers will do just fine and be less money. For planets, you won't miss the "smaller" field of view. I find all my type 6 naglers perform equally well, so I'd definately consider the 7mm.
As for the 31 Nagler vs the 41 Pan, if you observe from a light polluted area, I'd go with magnification over wider field. The higher magnification of the 31 Nagler will give you better contrast and make it easier to see deep space targets.
Barlow vs Powermate: for me that's tough one, both perform very well, but I generally prefer my 2.5x Powermate.
David E
I was not blown away by my Nagler T6 for planetary and wouldnt recommend those for that use. For some alternative wide-field views, look at the Vixen LVW or the Meade UWA series. Great/Well regarded EPs that arent cheap but they arent ridiculous either. I like the Televue Panoptics as well... prolly my favorite Televue EPs!
Wide-field for everything seems to the rage nowadays. Thats fine and in some situations its the right call. But, from what I have been reading & partially experiencing, for serious planetary study the LESS glass, the BETTER. this does make sense. Eight element eyepieces dont have the throughput of a simpler design. many eyepiece shootouts(even here) pretty much confirm this. So, if you must have wide-fields for planetary, go for the best you can afford. However, it might be possible to spend less and actually get more if you choose some simpler designs when it comes to planets & the Moon.
My 3 cents....
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Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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Darhmabum13
member
Reged: 08/04/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Montreal Quebec Canada
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Thanks for the replys, i was aking myself for planetary, witch will give me the best view, sharpness and contrast?... Less glass is better? so nagler radian or plossl?
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cuir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/03/07
Posts: 856
Loc: 45° 1'12. N, 73°56'12. W (Qc)
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The 9mm T6 is spot-on as a "near 2mm ExPl" DSO eyepiece. I believe a Panoptic 24mm should work well to cover your low magnification and wide angle needs. For higher magnifications, Pentax does make sense, but is expensive. Naglers are only a bit more expensive than Radians, but they do not have the nice eye relief aforded by Radians. The two stores in the MTL area do not carry BO planetaries, wich you are almost sure to have recomendations for... And finding a dealer that ships to MTL for these is an absolute pain. For higher magnifications, I would recommend you get the 8mm and 5mm Stratus.
You might be willing to spend for a premium eyepiece at the 7mm focal length, and perhap you will judge it acceptable an expense, even for the low usage it gets, but for the 5mm, definitely go for a Stratus, as it will not come out very often.
As for suggestions for Hyperions, well, in MTL, it is not carried by either of our retailers, wich is why I'm suggesting the Stratus, wich are stocked by one of them.
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Seb
Latest eyepiece spreadsheet
Choosing the right eyepiece
Main scope: 150mm Skywatcher Maksutov
Favorite ep: 24 Panoptic
Pref'ed filters: Lumicon 0III and UHC
Mounts: EQ6-Pro and Skyview AZ
Just in: C8-S-XLT
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Darhmabum13
member
Reged: 08/04/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Montreal Quebec Canada
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Merci Seb
9mm T6 is a good idea, but i'm leaning towards the T6 7mm because i want the most practicle magnification i can get...
Is it a bad idea?
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Edwin Quiroga
sage
Reged: 01/31/08
Posts: 211
Loc: Miranda, Venezuela
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Ça va François!
Don´t worry about your English. I have the prize to "the worst English ever"!
I bought my Televue eyepieces bunch and TV barlow (about 1350 US$) when I had my XT10. And the choice was very rewarding for me.
Pan 35 (34x)
Pan 24 (50x - 25x w/barlow)
Nagler 16 T5 (75x - 150x w/barlow)
Radian 6 (200x - 400x w/barlow).
Surely, I would have add some TV plössls or Baader orthos for planetary work. The focal length would depends of your seeing conditions more than the XT10's capacities.
Good to hear that you enjoy such excellent scope!
Edwin.
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TeleVue 85 w/FeatherTouch
Panoptic 35
Panoptic 24
Nagler 16 T5
Radian 6
Hyperion Baader Zoom 8-24
TeleVue Barlow 2x
TeleVue Powermate 5x
Orion Binoviewer
Pair of TeleVue plössl 20mm
Pair of RKE 15mm
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cuir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/03/07
Posts: 856
Loc: 45° 1'12. N, 73°56'12. W (Qc)
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Not bad, necessarily, however, 171X is a magnification that often yields soft-ish views over here. 140~150X is usually quite sharp, but beyond that, just be aware that the atmospheric soup starts to degrade the views, and the degradation bell curve is very steep. This said, should you not have had the 9mm, I would have recommended a 5mm stratus, an 8mm Ethos, and a 24mm Panoptic. Perhaps it still makes sense to do just that, but it all depends on your budget.
Some people seem to be less picky about this, but most of us stop magnifying at the "soup threshold". I much prefer Jupiter as a sharp and crisp object at 150X than soupy and mushy at 171X. This said, it is a very subjective thing. It's bit of a cautionary advice, as too much emphasis on eyepieces that magnify too much for regular use will be a bit of a let-down. Maybe you should go to a few Starparties and astronomy club meetings and try some other peoples eyepieces on your telescope before making the decision on high magnification thresholds you feel comfortable with.
A 24mm Panoptic, IMO, should be your next purchase, as you do need a good finder, and the 24mm Panoptic is one of the very best eyepieces out there, and it's focal length makes it perfect for the purpose. On your scope, it will yields an extremely brilliant and luminous image. Certain widefield objects and nebulae like the Perseus double and Orion nebulae are absolutely heart-stopping in those 10" because of the extreme ExPl the 24mm Pan delivers on them.
M42 + 10" + 24mm Pan + Lumicon 0III = 
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Seb
Latest eyepiece spreadsheet
Choosing the right eyepiece
Main scope: 150mm Skywatcher Maksutov
Favorite ep: 24 Panoptic
Pref'ed filters: Lumicon 0III and UHC
Mounts: EQ6-Pro and Skyview AZ
Just in: C8-S-XLT
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cuir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/03/07
Posts: 856
Loc: 45° 1'12. N, 73°56'12. W (Qc)
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BTW, you might, if you like camping, think about attending the lake Echo starparty, organized by Denis Bergeron.
Website for the event. there is a load of very friendly people out there just waiting to help you and show tons of great stuff.
Picture of the lake (Right-click, and select "save target as". This will avoid browser-caused photo degradation to adapt for display settings.)
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Seb
Latest eyepiece spreadsheet
Choosing the right eyepiece
Main scope: 150mm Skywatcher Maksutov
Favorite ep: 24 Panoptic
Pref'ed filters: Lumicon 0III and UHC
Mounts: EQ6-Pro and Skyview AZ
Just in: C8-S-XLT
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David E
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 1751
Loc: North Carolina
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Quote:
Merci Seb
9mm T6 is a good idea, but i'm leaning towards the T6 7mm because i want the most practicle magnification i can get...
Is it a bad idea?
I don't have the 7mm T6 but my 5mm T6 is my most used planetary eyepiece in my 8" Dob. It gives me a good clean image and lots of field of view so I don't have to move the Dob so much. But there are lower priced alternatives that I like. SmartAstronomy's 6mm planetary is very nice the Vixen NLV Lanthanum's are very nice. Vixen makes a 6mm in that series but not a 7mm. You can get a 7mm Ortho but I don't like using them in Dobs because of the narrow field of view and lack of sharpness at the edges. (The NLV's also have a narrow field of view but they are much sharper at the edge in this focal range and the large top glass and generous eye relief makes it easier to see the whole field at one time, so they do work easier in Dobs.)
Hope this helps. 
David E
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David E
So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.
-Robert Frost
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cuir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/03/07
Posts: 856
Loc: 45° 1'12. N, 73°56'12. W (Qc)
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Quote:
It gives me a good clean image
I do not doubt it. However, we, (I and Darhmabum13), live in an area at the edge of the gulf stream, in an area who's air is waterloged by the prevailing west winds coming in from the great lakes. Seeing is quite miserable on most nights, and when it steadies, it usually does so only for very brief periods of at most, 2~3 hours.
From knowledge gleaned over a couple of year of observing, I estimate our seeing to be between 1 and 2 on the skyclock's scale about 95% of the time. This makes it very difficult to magnify above the 140X~150X power range. Things get murky real fast here. Winter usually brings a bit of relief, but eyepieces capable of more than 150X rarely get much usage. My advice is to make sure he finds out if, to him, the magnification factors above 150X are worthy of spending big dollars. before he does, lest he be disapointed like many of us have been.
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Seb
Latest eyepiece spreadsheet
Choosing the right eyepiece
Main scope: 150mm Skywatcher Maksutov
Favorite ep: 24 Panoptic
Pref'ed filters: Lumicon 0III and UHC
Mounts: EQ6-Pro and Skyview AZ
Just in: C8-S-XLT
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Darhmabum13
member
Reged: 08/04/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Montreal Quebec Canada
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Great local advice Seb, i understand the magnification prob with the 7mm, 171X would be to much, and i know from experience that the 5mm is also to much even the TV nagler.
I already Have a T6 11mmm, so the 9mm would be to close to spend my money on...So 8mm would be nice, but my next question for planetery, is les glass better? Ethos radian or plossl... Yes yes i know the ethos is space walk and all, and i'll probably buy it , but i mean that`s a lot of glass... Will i see more details with less glass? radian or plossl? is less glass worth less field for planetery?
Thanks & Merci
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Lamb0
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 668
Loc: Fairbury, Nebraska
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 Ok, I admit I cheat - I use a 10 year old 5-8mm Speers-WALER as my primary high power eyepiece. It's within a gnat's whisker of the type 6 Naglers in performance, which are in turn topped by the 8 Ethos with the Pentax XWs on top, (none of which I can currently afford). However, it handily beats the Hyperions and lesser wide-field eyepieces in edge of field performance and contrast. I prefer to leave it in a recessed 1.25"/2" adapter threaded for 48mm filters for convenience - I call it the "Canadian Cannon". Besides, the ~.5" eye relief, (with the TeleVue eyecup I added), a quick adjustment anywhere from 5~8mm sustaining ~80° AF is the bee's knees!
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Darhmabum13
member
Reged: 08/04/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Montreal Quebec Canada
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Great advice! Thank you all! I love rading about this stuff, evrybody is so passionate, i love it!
Ok lets get serious,concerning lower magnification i'm hesitating between the 31 and 26. I want a low magnification eyepiece to get the most out of the big deep space objects like the the north america nebula...I understand that to enjoy the 31mm i needs to have a very dark sky, and because of that the pan 27 or the nag 26 would be more usefull on any other night...But will the big DSO be as enjoyable?
Thanks!
Francois
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cuir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/03/07
Posts: 856
Loc: 45° 1'12. N, 73°56'12. W (Qc)
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NGC 7000 won't happen from Montreal, so if you want to purchase the "big boy", you will, indeed, need to travel to enjoy it at it's best. This said, the 31N is still a very nice eyepiece, even in town. You just can't get the faint stuff to show up with as much contrast, but whatever eyepiece you use, that fact will remain the same. "Darkening the sky" by using higher magnification, also darkens the target, so the contrast will be no better. Subjective taste in perception might cause better appreciation of a target with a darker background, but to argue that the views would really be better is a moot point.
One thing to think about, though, is that the 31N gives you a 6.56mm ExPl. That is very big. The human eye average in adults is said to be 6mm. If you use an eyepiece with an ExPl larger than your pupil size, you will loose contrast. As the size of the secondary mirror's central obstruction in the light cone grows proportionally to the rest, if your ExPl is too big, the outer ring of quality and unobstructed light is wasted in the outer edges of your eye, while the obstructed part of the light cone goes to your retina. This means that the effective central obstruction becomes much bigger, proportionally to the total surface of light in your retina. The nagler 26 would make more sense, numbers-wise. Here's a few numbers that might help you further. Local brick and mortar shop prices.
Nagler 31 = 39X - 2.12° - 6.56mm - 640$
Nagler 26 = 46X - 1.78° - 5.50mm - 600$
Pan 27mm = 44X - 1.53° - 5.72mm - 370$
Pan 24mm = 50X - 1.36° - 5.08mm - 310$
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Seb
Latest eyepiece spreadsheet
Choosing the right eyepiece
Main scope: 150mm Skywatcher Maksutov
Favorite ep: 24 Panoptic
Pref'ed filters: Lumicon 0III and UHC
Mounts: EQ6-Pro and Skyview AZ
Just in: C8-S-XLT
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