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Canadian
Vendor
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 623
Loc: Calgary, AB, Canada
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I totally agree with not charging the vendors extra.
While it might seem that some of them sell a lot, they have to pay for staff, sometimes staff accommodations, rent a truck, fuel, food, etc. With margins being what they are, it takes a lot of sales just to break even. Smaller vendors like myself still have some of the same expenses, and I also have limited items to sell, so sales are never that great - breaking even is something I have yet to do. I don't go with the intent of making money, I go to meet the people and show them my stuff, and supply a door prize or two. I would never pay extra to do this, especially the $3-500 some places do. Therefore I couldn't go to our Starfest as a vendor, but I would still show my stuff since I own and use most of it anyway. Our Saskatchewan Summer Star Party goes out of its way in trying to keep us happy, even to offer free ads just for showing up. I use the SSSP as my main summer holiday, staying a whole week, to enjoy the park and the star party. The Star-B-Q and Alberta Star Party both are happy just to have us there. All the vendors that attend these 3 parties always give away some great door prizes. I remember going before I was a vendor, that being able to see new equipment was part of the reason for going. I would rather see the vendors not be charged at all, for 2 people, or at the very least nothing extra, as the door prizes and the viewing of their wares would seem to be payment enough.
As far as leaving equipment out in the open - so far no issues. Yes, all the small stuff should be put away. I also do my part to keep an eye on anyone setup near me (looking out for their stuff when they step away), and quite often take a walk around during the day, mainly to take pictures, but keeping an eye out just the same. On that note, I have found that 99.9% of the people at these events are some of the friendliest people around, from the person with no scope to the person with $30000 of equipment.
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rmollise
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 1564
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Quote:
A star party is a social event that’s for sharing the universe with others of all backgrounds, including folks who have no idea what is going on. I have no sympathy for the ‘leave me alone, I’m doing my observing project’ types.
That's fine. If you want to spend your time sharing your views with folks, that's great. Let other people enjoy astronomy as they wish. No one is owed a look through anyone's scope.
Your sentiments _are_ exactly how a public star party should be run, no doubt about it. But I am not talking about a public outreach star party, but a serious event like TSP or Chiefland, or many more. If you've been to any of those, you've no doubt noted plenty of folks doing imaging. Do you walk up to them and ask them to remove their cameras from their scopes so you can have a look?
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Uncle Rod
Watch for Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using the New CATs--coming soon!
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George N
sage
Reged: 05/19/06
Posts: 302
Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
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Quote:
Quote:
A star party is a social event that’s for sharing the universe with others of all backgrounds, including folks who have no idea what is going on. I have no sympathy for the ‘leave me alone, I’m doing my observing project’ types.
That's fine. If you want to spend your time sharing your views with folks, that's great. Let other people enjoy astronomy as they wish. No one is owed a look through anyone's scope.
Your sentiments _are_ exactly how a public star party should be run, no doubt about it. But I am not talking about a public outreach star party, but a serious event like TSP or Chiefland, or many more. If you've been to any of those, you've no doubt noted plenty of folks doing imaging. Do you walk up to them and ask them to remove their cameras from their scopes so you can have a look?
"No one is owed a look through anyone's scope." Interesting view. I on the other hand follow in John Dobson's footsteps:
"If you own a telescope, it is your duty to share it with people who don't." J. Dobson
That may be why I've spent thousands of hours doing "out reach" at our local public observatory.
While, with one exception, I've not tried doing CCD'ing at a star party, I see nothing wrong with asking an imager if I can take a look at his/her raw data files when they have a break. I even offer a visual view of the same object in exchange.
On those occasions when I’m doing visual or CCD at a level where I can’t afford interference, I do it at a private location, but then for me a “trip to dark sky” means walking outside my house. I do find it strange that someone would go to a star party, which by its very nature involves people being together to share an interest in astronomy, and then erecting an electrified chain-link fence around themselves so that no one disturbs them. While I can understand your point about a person with a once a year vacation to dark sky wanting to take advantage of that, perhaps a better place would be one of those astronomy villages.
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George N
Obsession 20
Optical Guidance Systems 10" F/9 R-C Cass
6" F/5 & 8" F/8 home-made Newts
MI-250 mount
SBIG STL-1301E CCD
Member, International Dark-Sky Association
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rmollise
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 1564
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Quote:
"No one is owed a look through anyone's scope." Interesting view. I on the other hand follow in John Dobson's footsteps:
Quote:
No one is. The wonderful thing about amateur astronomy is that we are free to pursue it as we see fit. The great thing about the rules of amateur astronomy is that there are no rules.
I often enjoy showing off the sky to all and sundry. I'll put my years of doing public outreach and teaching astronomy up against the "thousands of hours" anybody else has put in.
Other times I'm interested in pursuing my observing programs. Many folks, you see, have very few opportunities to observe or image from dark sites, and it is natural they want to take advantage of them.
Most folks I've met at star parties, those using scopes, or those walking around looking for a peep through them are kind and generous. There are a few RUDE people who will tell you, "I'm busy." There are ALSO a few people on the other end, who basically want to insist on a look at scope or computer. That's just as rude. Why do people act this way? I put it down to our culture of entitlement--not that that necessarily includes you.
As I said previously, there's a difference between a public star party and a serious dark sky event. Sure, at a public outreach/sidewalk event, John Dobson's word is my law. At something like the TSP? The best way to get a look through a scope is bring a scope with you. 
Edited by rmollise (08/20/08 11:03 AM)
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Astrosetz
sage
Reged: 10/05/03
Posts: 284
Loc: Wisconsin
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Hi. I am someone who loves doing outreach and sharing views through my telescope even during "serious" star parties. That being said, I have to disagree with the notion that being at any star party obligates the telescope owner to share their views. Most of us do NOT have dark skies at home, and going to a place like NSP (for example) is the only time we would be able to see very faint objects visually. There have been nights where I politely say "I'm working on a personal program tonight" and that's never been a problem -- nor should it be. Sometimes its nice to shoot the breeze with the neighbors and swap views, other times it's nice to bag fifty objects on the Herschel-II list.
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-Astrosetz
www.astrosetz.com
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Tom Clark
super member
Reged: 11/14/07
Posts: 141
Loc: Chiefland, Florida
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"As I said previously, there's a difference between a public star party and a serious dark sky event. Sure, at a public outreach/sidewalk event, John Dobson's word is my law. At something like the TSP? The best way to get a look through a scope is bring a scope with you." Rod Mollise
Rod,
Great article! Of course there are always two sides to sharing your scope with the public at star parties. Here's another side that many may not have thought of, yet I have had to be careful with it since the 80s. I have usually had a very large scope at star parties, and there are times when it is just not comfortable to invite total strangers to climb high on the ladder to the eyepiece of a 36" or larger scope…
Many a time the person was so scared of hights that by the time they got up to the eyepiece the object being view was long gone. Other times elderly people have leaned against the scope for support, and you can imagine what the results of that was. So many times guests at my scope have stepped off the ladder long before they reached the ground. I've hurt myself trying to catch them before real disaster struck. Once, late at night I was explaining to a fellow high up the ladder how to move the Dob, but Jeannie interupted me and said, "Tom, I think Richard knows how to move a Dob!" I wasn't aware that Richard Berry had waited in line and then climbed the ladder - I was a bit tired at that time myself.
Having one of the largest scopes is always an attraction and I never view alone. I always have a few invited guests around to share our observing time with, but have become uncomfortable when an unknown comes up in the dark and asks for a peek - it seems like it usually happens when we are looking straight up!!
I now prefer to hold public viewing times when I can keep the scope pointed less than 45 degrees above the horizon. It's also a good time to keep bright objects in the eyepiece so the beginners eye's can see a view that is easy to see.
Now that my observatory and 42" scope are on the side of the observing field at Chiefland, there is a dim red porch light on the side of the dome. When the light is on everyone is invited to come in and look. The rest of the time there are just a few invited guest inside.
Any time you are at a star party and see a scope you would like to have a look thru, talk to the owner in the daytime and ask about the chance to look thru it that night. He will be happy to let you know when a convenient time would be for you to come by. You would be surprised how few ever ask in advance. When they do we bend over backwards for them.
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George N
sage
Reged: 05/19/06
Posts: 302
Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
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Quote:
......Of course there are always two sides to sharing your scope with the public at star parties. Here's another side that many may not have thought of, yet I have had to be careful with it since the 80s. I have usually had a very large scope at star parties, and there are times when it is just not comfortable to invite total strangers to climb high on the ladder to the eyepiece of a 36" or larger scope…
That’s an interesting point that I have certainly thought of before. Even with my ‘little’ 20-inch F/5 I insist that parents voice a willingness to take full responsibility for their children climbing my ladder. Even so, I’m sure I’d end up sued if someone fell while climbing my ladder and the star party organizers would probably be sued too.
It doesn’t take much of a fall to get badly injured particularly if you hit your head on something like a rock or vehicle. Last year a co-worker, a US Navy helicopter pilot just back from a tour of duty in Iraq, fell while pruning branches in his backyard. It was only a short fall, but he broke his neck and will be totally paralyzed for the rest of his life. It’s a sad fate for a father of 2 young children. This injury could have just as easily happened while up a ladder looking thru a scope.
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George N
Obsession 20
Optical Guidance Systems 10" F/9 R-C Cass
6" F/5 & 8" F/8 home-made Newts
MI-250 mount
SBIG STL-1301E CCD
Member, International Dark-Sky Association
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