LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 6772
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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For those interested, Astro-physics has announced they are accepting orders for the new ZAOII's. Get'em while they last!
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AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
SN6-OTA, C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST, Lunt LD60T/DS (on order)
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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haha good luck with that, these abbe II are going to be picked up almost immediately by only the most hardcore, dedicated....and need i say RICH collectors.
Theyre pretty expensive, but if you get a set of these you can also get the limited edition zeiss barlow which is touted to be the best barlow ever made??
I wonder how this barlow and eyepieces compare to naglers, the new 4 element "barlows" or even baader hyperions.
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
Edited by Brooklyn (08/06/08 06:25 PM)
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Mark Jenkins
sage
Reged: 06/25/08
Posts: 311
Loc: Wisconsin
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Call me crazy, I certainly am not rich!
A little on the hardcore side (OCD is more like it) 
I ordered a set with the barlow.
October delivery. 
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AP 105mm f6 APO (Traveler)
TEC MC200/15.5
AP Mach1 GTO
EarthWin PFS-B
Canon EOS 50D
DFK21AU04.AS
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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WOW mark congratulations!! 
I think you might not be buying any new eyepieces for a very long time once you get your delivery in mid october.
If you dont mind me asking, how much did the entire eyepiece set, wooden case (limited edition), and barlow lens run you? I checked the websites but they ask to call for pricing details.
If you can, list the prices and shipping separately.
Ohh man, if i were you i wouldnt be able to wait all the way till october. I read all the info on these eyepieces and barlow because they really do make it out to seem like these are THE best eyepieces/barlow to get period, EVER. 
From what i understood, payment is due october 1st, with all shipments going out sometime in mid OCT.
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
Edited by Brooklyn (08/06/08 07:15 PM)
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Mark Jenkins
sage
Reged: 06/25/08
Posts: 311
Loc: Wisconsin
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The entire set with barlow was $2,799.00. The box is a limited "gift" to the customer. If you order 2 complete sets you only get one box. The box holds 2 sets of eyepieces but only one barlow.
Now, if I had the wherewithal to get 2 sets then I suppose you could call me rich. 
I ordered early enough that I should get a box. Not everyone will get a box I am told.
Shipping is free from Astro-Physics.
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AP 105mm f6 APO (Traveler)
TEC MC200/15.5
AP Mach1 GTO
EarthWin PFS-B
Canon EOS 50D
DFK21AU04.AS
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Thanks mark!
Good lord! they're even more expensive than i imagined!! Well, i guess thats what it takes if u really want the best of the best.
And yep i remember reading the same thing, the wooden box is free, but only given on a first come first serve.
As for the barlow, if im not mistaken, they said they will sell them individually if inventory is still available after the Abbe IIs are shipped out.
I guess when an eyepiece set w/ barlow is more expensive than even 10" meade telescopes, you might tend to be very critical of them once you test them. I wouldnt be worried though, Zeiss is fanatical when it comes to optics.
Ive read stories about Zeiss and how their original manufacturing used to be done 100% by handmade procedure. My father was born in moldova in eastern europe, and went to engineering institute in moscow russia.
When i try to talk to him about the technical aspects of telescopes he is dumbfounded as back then astronomy was not a widely available hobby. However when i mentioned Zeiss randomly one day he instantly recognized the company. He said that back in the day (1960s-1980s) Zeiss was the absolute authority on optics in the entire world. He is a person who wouldnt know a single company name of any optics manufacturer, but mention Zeiss and he can tell you their whole history.
I didnt know this, but during the cold war, Zeiss produced many military optics for the USSR soviet army. Also, zeiss took part in training many Russian optical experts. Kind of reminds me of BMW and Mercedes producing tanks for nazi germany during WW2.
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Lawrence Sayre
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 3677
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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You are speaking of course of "Zeiss Jenna", which was in East Germany, and therefore fully under the control of the Soviet Union. After WW2 this was a completely separate entity from Zeiss.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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jdownie
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/24/06
Posts: 724
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Quote:
You are speaking of course of "Zeiss Jenna", which was in East Germany, and therefore fully under the control of the Soviet Union. After WW2 this was a completely separate entity from Zeiss.
For clarity's sake, it is "Zeiss Jena".
An aside - I find the Zeiss fetish a little bemusing. It has been a long time since they have made camera lenses as good as the Japanese make. They were slow to adopt aspherics, and their pricing is rather outrageous. I guess the interesting "jump the shark" moment was when Hasselblad dumped Zeiss and moved to Fuji.
I'm sure the eyepieces will be fine, but at a price that stretches credulity.
John
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ATM project - a terrible waste of good Pyrex.
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Mark Jenkins
sage
Reged: 06/25/08
Posts: 311
Loc: Wisconsin
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Well, at $599.50 per eyepiece they are less money than a 26 or 31 T5.
Is the Barlow worth $400.00? I am betting it is. The Badder FFC "Barlow" system is a whole lot more than that and it just exudes quality.
Yes, buying the entire set is a lot of money but it will round out my "premium" planetary set quite nicely.
Upon delivery I will have 4mm ZAO, 5mm (SPL), 6mm ZAO, 8mm ZAO (SPL) 10mm ZAO, 12mm (SPL) and 16mm ZAO.
I will not want for another similar eyepiece for the rest of my life.
In fact, I think this will complete my entire eyepiece collection for many years. I intend to keep this set for the rest of my life. If later years prevent me from enjoying visual astronomy then I know I will always get my original purchase price back and probably a little more.
It is stretching the budget just a bit but I had opportunities in the past to get a full set of ZAOs in their previous version and even owned a 4mm at one time. I always let the opportunity to buy a complete set slide by. I almost doubled my original purchase price of the 4mm when I sold it.
Heck, I passed on getting a full set of AP SPLs the day they were first sold and instead opted for just two, the 5mm and the 12mm and I do regret not getting the entire set.
IMO the price does not stretch credulity as you say. In fact, I suspect these will be very good investments as far as astronomy equipment is concerned. My children may someday reap the benefit of that investment either through continued use or auction.
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AP 105mm f6 APO (Traveler)
TEC MC200/15.5
AP Mach1 GTO
EarthWin PFS-B
Canon EOS 50D
DFK21AU04.AS
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28271
Loc: montana
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Quote:
IMO the price does not stretch credulity as you say. In fact, I suspect these will be very good investments as far as astronomy equipment is concerned. My children may someday reap the benefit of that investment either through continued use or auction.
Mark; first, congratulations on a fantastic set of glass! 
Only the purchaser can judge whether the price is acceptable or not. I can't help but think a set such as this, will only increase in value thru the years. Even if it didn't, you will get the joy of using magnificent eyepieces thru the years; that is priceless!
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4262
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Now watch: it'll come out later that Zeiss gets their eyepieces from UO.
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C
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Mark Jenkins
sage
Reged: 06/25/08
Posts: 311
Loc: Wisconsin
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I just remembered that these new ZAO's are less expensive then the older versions on the used market which seem to hover in the $800 range pretty consistently.
So, a relative bargain! That is my story and I am sticking to it!
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AP 105mm f6 APO (Traveler)
TEC MC200/15.5
AP Mach1 GTO
EarthWin PFS-B
Canon EOS 50D
DFK21AU04.AS
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leonard
member
Reged: 10/19/07
Posts: 81
Loc: West Virginia
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Hello , Mark wrote :
>>>>>I just remembered that these new ZAO's are less expensive then the older versions on the used market which seem to hover in the $800 range pretty consistently.<<<<
Congratulations on your purchase Mark.
Zeiss sure carries a lot of weight . These eyepieces are very will made and may be worth the new price .
I do however find it interesting that in 12 years the cost of making them has gone up that much. There is no doubt in my mind that most of the sets sold yesterday will never see the dark of night . They will be a collector set and thats ok . Back in (I think)95 or 96 , I purchased a 4mm 1 1/4 ZAO brand new for $ 164.00 .
There will be a lot of back and forth about which set is better or if there the same no doubt . Do I think there worth 800.00 , no I don't. And in the real world of viewing most people will be hard pressed to see the difference between ZAO's and TMB mono's and AP SP eyepieces on axis . I can see the sweat now when that Q-tip gets near the ZAO eyelens. If I had a set and used them I think I would send them back to AP for cleaning when the time came .
Leonard
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Doug D.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1299
Loc: Virginia
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Just a bit of perspective for you regarding eyepiece cost. I use Zeiss microscopes at work and the eyepieces for all of our scopes are as much or more than the ZAO IIs - and a single high numerical aperture objective like a 63x or 100x Apo (smaller than a 35mm film cannister) is in the $7-8k range last time I checked. I don't state this to imply that the ZAO IIs are a bargain by comparison but just that they are "tools" to be used, IMO, just like our microscope eyepieces.
Day in and day out (and most nights) the microscope eyepieces have eyes pressed up against them and they build up a good deal of crud. I never hesitate to clean these with cotton swabs just as Zeiss recommends!
I think there is far too much timidity expressed among those who use telescope optics when it comes to cleaning (and using). I tell you what though, if my wife learned that I just dropped that much on a set of EPs and planned to not use them...... I'd be in for a world of hurt. So, I will gladly be using my ZAOs and happy to clean away the eyelash oils and eyebrow mites (or whatever), whenever they need it.... 
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Refractors mostly.... solar and dark sky.
Charlottesville
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SteveC
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/15/06
Posts: 1175
Loc: The Garden State
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Hi Leonard,
Have you compared the AP SPLs to the TMB monos on axis performance. The SPLS have their advantages, but on axis is not one of them.
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SteveC
TEC 140
Intes Micro 715 deluxe
WO Zenithstar 80 FD
SolarMax 40
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini, DM-6 w/Sky Commander on SV wood tripod, Vixen Skypod
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Mark Jenkins
sage
Reged: 06/25/08
Posts: 311
Loc: Wisconsin
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My 8mm SPL on axis is incredible and by far the best eyepiece in my collection currently.
I find the 12 and the 5 to also be very sharp on axis. What do you think is the issue on axis Steve?
Re: cleaning. Roland designed the SPLs to be easily disassembled so one could keep them clean.
I also have no fear of cleaning optics Doug.
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AP 105mm f6 APO (Traveler)
TEC MC200/15.5
AP Mach1 GTO
EarthWin PFS-B
Canon EOS 50D
DFK21AU04.AS
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Quote:
Now watch: it'll come out later that Zeiss gets their eyepieces from UO.
Hmm i heard that several companies all get their glass from the same manufacturer, and that the only difference is the coatings and eyepiece design 
This was strait from a baader rep over the phone (there is a thread about it somewhere here at cloudy nights).
But back to the subject, mark you are gonna have one blast with those orthos. From what i have gathered, theyre most useful for planetary viewing. I wonder what jupiter looks like through one of these ^_^
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Quote:
Hello , Mark wrote :
>>>>>I just remembered that these new ZAO's are less expensive then the older versions on the used market which seem to hover in the $800 range pretty consistently.<<<<
Congratulations on your purchase Mark.
Zeiss sure carries a lot of weight . These eyepieces are very will made and may be worth the new price .
I do however find it interesting that in 12 years the cost of making them has gone up that much. There is no doubt in my mind that most of the sets sold yesterday will never see the dark of night . They will be a collector set and thats ok . Back in (I think)95 or 96 , I purchased a 4mm 1 1/4 ZAO brand new for $ 164.00 .
There will be a lot of back and forth about which set is better or if there the same no doubt . Do I think there worth 800.00 , no I don't. And in the real world of viewing most people will be hard pressed to see the difference between ZAO's and TMB mono's and AP SP eyepieces on axis . I can see the sweat now when that Q-tip gets near the ZAO eyelens. If I had a set and used them I think I would send them back to AP for cleaning when the time came .
Leonard
Leonard i think one of the biggest skills an amateur astronomer learns over years and years of heavily experiencing this hobby is cleaning optics.
It seems to me all the older gentlemen who have had decades of experience don't even hesitate or think twice when it comes to cleaning optics, even the ridiculously expensive ones that they own.
Am i as confident about cleaning my optics as these veterans? not by a long shot. My meade lx90 SCT has never been cleaned with liquids yet as it is only my first telescope and i haven't even been an amateur astronomer for much over a year. However, with quick learning and fanatic-like research I think anyone (even people with shaky hands) can successfully clean optics without harming them. I haven't used the cleaning liquids and optical tissues yet, but you better believe everything in my collection has been dusted with an ear syringe.
Soon as my optics require cleaning (never had any dew formation, never ever), I wont hesitate to sit down and carefully and attentively do everything the internet cleaning guides say, even though it will be my first time.
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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SteveC
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/15/06
Posts: 1175
Loc: The Garden State
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Hi Mark,
I owned the 8 & 12mm SPLs for about 2 years, before selling them. I ranked them tied for 3rd with a few other EPs, including the Radian, for on axis sharpness. The Radian isn't bad as a planetary EP, btw, considering it's not touted as such.
My mounts track, so I'm not influenced by the quality of edge of field as others are, nor am I bothered by eye relief. I understand others have had better results with the SPLs. My point is simply to offer a contrarian view for those who desire them and can't afford them on the resale market. Don't kick yourself for not owning them.
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SteveC
TEC 140
Intes Micro 715 deluxe
WO Zenithstar 80 FD
SolarMax 40
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini, DM-6 w/Sky Commander on SV wood tripod, Vixen Skypod
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leonard
member
Reged: 10/19/07
Posts: 81
Loc: West Virginia
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Hello Steve ,
Steve wrote:>>>Don't kick yourself for not owning them. <<<
Steve , Go over Marks post again , he said he owns them and likes them .
Leonard
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