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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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Monte Porche
member


Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Haughton, LA
Question About Cats
      #2564954 - 08/06/08 08:49 PM

So, I see this slick ad by Celestron on the back cover of a magazine, and it shows all of their lines of Cats...

My question is simple...As I look at all of their 8" models, I see prices ranging from $1400 or so all the way up to over $3000. Why the big price difference? What do I get for the extra money?

Thanks.

Monte

--------------------
Haughton, LA (just outside of Shreveport/Bossier City)


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Bob Griffiths
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 3740
Loc: Frederick Maryland
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Monte Porche]
      #2564983 - 08/06/08 09:00 PM

The Mount......Alt/Azm in single fork or dual fork..or GEM

The OTA is identical ....(which one sells for 3 K ??? )

Bob G.

--------------------
CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W


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letimotif
no complaints
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Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 911
Loc: Far Flung Isles of Langerhans
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Bob Griffiths]
      #2565030 - 08/06/08 09:28 PM

Quote:

..(which one sells for 3 K ??? )

Bob G.




C8 on a CGE?

--------------------
Celestron CPC 1100
Celestron C6R-GT
Orion 120ST
B&L Banner Astro 80mm
Astro Telescopes 'tis a mystery 80mm ED
Sundry Oddments

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?

Ad astra per aspera


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Bob Griffiths
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Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 3740
Loc: Frederick Maryland
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: letimotif]
      #2565691 - 08/07/08 08:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:

..(which one sells for 3 K ??? )

Bob G.




C8 on a CGE?




GULP..... I just looked and you are WRONG...

$3,654.00 when combined with the $2,999.00 Tripod mount and weights,... Holy Mackerel.. !!!!

--------------------
CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W


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rmollise
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 1107
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Bob Griffiths]
      #2565728 - 08/07/08 08:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

..(which one sells for 3 K ??? )

Bob G.




C8 on a CGE?




GULP..... I just looked and you are WRONG...

$3,654.00 when combined with the $2,999.00 Tripod mount and weights,... Holy Mackerel.. !!!!




No mackerals involved...

This is a very good deal for a C8 on a G11 class mount; a C8 OTA + a CGE purchased separately is about 4000!

--------------------
Peace,
Uncle Rod


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sang33ta
sage


Reged: 07/08/08
Posts: 399
Loc: UK
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: rmollise]
      #2565750 - 08/07/08 08:57 AM

You get what you pay for normally. If you want the best, to take the kind of images you see in astro mags, you need to be prepared to spend as much as a small car.

Pitty you can't buy cloudless skys.

--------------------
Hioptic 152mm f12.5 Maksutov
Celestron Advanced CG5-GT Mount (Mr Noisy!)
Meade 4000 Super Plossl Set
Casio QV-2900UX
Got fed up of waiting for Meade ETX-150 so put this together for £500/$1000


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Monte Porche
member


Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Haughton, LA
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Bob Griffiths]
      #2566021 - 08/07/08 11:32 AM

Quote:

The OTA is identical ....(which one sells for 3 K ??? )




The Nexstar 8SE is $1399, The CPC 8" is $1999, C8 GT is $1520, and the CGE800 is $3654.

So, if I understand correctly, the CPC, GT, and CGE's all are the same OTA, just differing mounts.

Thanks for the information.

Monte

--------------------
Haughton, LA (just outside of Shreveport/Bossier City)


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Midnight Dan
sage


Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 301
Loc: Brockport, NY
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Monte Porche]
      #2566044 - 08/07/08 11:42 AM

Quote:

So, if I understand correctly, the CPC, GT, and CGE's all are the same OTA, just differing mounts.




Correct. Here's the fundamental differences:

The NexStar has a single-fork Alt/Az mount which is relatively inexpensive and light weight. But it has lower cost motors and gear train and is designed mainly for visual use (although some do AP with it)

The CPC is also an Alt/Az mount and has higher precision stepper motors for more accurate GoTos and tracking, worm gears instead of the NexStar's spur gears for longer life, more accurate tracking and higher load capacity, and it has a dual fork and heavier tripod for better stability.

The GT and GCE are Equatorial mounts. These require a bit more setup and can force some oddball viewing positions, but are the best mounts for AP. The CGE is basically a much more heavy duty version with more stability, accuracy, and load capacity.

-Dan

--------------------
Celestron NexStar 8
Telrad
Celestron 40mm and 25mm eyepieces
Baader Hyperion 13mm, 8mm, 5mm eyepieces
2x Barlow
Meade 0.63x Focal Reducer/Field Flattener


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Monte Porche
member


Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Haughton, LA
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Midnight Dan]
      #2568749 - 08/08/08 03:41 PM

So, if I want to do mainly viewing, but some AP...

I'd be better off with the C11-S GT for $2400 than I would with the C11 CPC for $2800, right?

--------------------
Haughton, LA (just outside of Shreveport/Bossier City)


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
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Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 2225
Loc: Colorado
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Monte Porche]
      #2568819 - 08/08/08 04:17 PM

Nobody but your pocket book is better off with a C11 on a CG5 mount. It is barely usable in visual mode, that C11 is just too much scope for the mount.

If you have the budget get the CPC1100, it's a great package ... BUT you will have a substantial outlay for getting into AP (other than solar system objects and short exposures on DSOs).

If it's your first serious scope and you really want to do AP in the future and your budget is quite fixed I'd consider a C8 on the CG5 mount (C8-SGT) and then spend the extra on things like a second scope (70-80mm ED for wide field and autoguiding), DSLR, webcam, etc.

If your heart is set on bigger aperture then bite the bullet on the CPC1100 or the combination of a 12" dob and a small AP setup (80mm or C6 scope on a CG-5).

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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Midnight Dan
sage


Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 301
Loc: Brockport, NY
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Monte Porche]
      #2568831 - 08/08/08 04:23 PM

Well, it depends on what you mean by "some AP".

First, I've seen some say that the C11 is a bit large for the CG-5 mount (the one on the GT model) and that you really should use the CGE mount if you're going to have that big a scope on it. I don't have personal experience so I'm just repeating what I've seen on other posts. I think if you really want to compare visual vs. AP, you should be thinking about the CPC vs the CGE for that size scope.

But back to the "some AP". You can actually do a reasonable amount of AP on the CPC mount. The problem with an Alt/Az mount is that it does not rotate with the sky, it only moves up/down and left/right. So if you take exposures longer than 15 seconds or so, you'll see field rotation in the images. But, many people use software that allows them to take hundreds or thousands of short exposure images and "stack" them to create the final image. the software rotates the various images so they match up to produce the final. This works well for bright objects like the moon, planets and globular clusters. I'm not sure how well it works for DSOs since I don't do AP (yet :-).

If you want to start out with visual and then move up to this kind of AP, the CPC mount is a good choice. Another option if you want to move up to more serious AP after a while, is to buy a good solid wedge to use with the CPC. To get one that will be substantial enough to do the job right, think $800 or more. But that would allow you to use the CPC mount and do long exposure guided AP.

But, if AP is your primary goal, you probably should go with the CGE. The downsides of an Equitorial mount is that it requires extra setup time and can cause you to go into some weird positions to do visual observing. But it does a great job for long exposure AP.

Before you decide which way to go, you might want to read the recent article on CN by Rod Molise called "Uncle rod, I want to Take Pictures":

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1837

Serious AP can cost a bundle including the mount, specialized imagers, etc. In addition to the monetary investment, there's a large time investment both for learning and for doing. So you should consider if you really want to go that way before investing in a very expensive mount that will not be as easy to use or as comfortable to view as a fork mount.

-Dan

--------------------
Celestron NexStar 8
Telrad
Celestron 40mm and 25mm eyepieces
Baader Hyperion 13mm, 8mm, 5mm eyepieces
2x Barlow
Meade 0.63x Focal Reducer/Field Flattener


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HendyPhoto
Sith Lord
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Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 1364
Loc: Bountiful, Utah
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: Midnight Dan]
      #2568845 - 08/08/08 04:27 PM

Dont forget about the Celestron C9.25, its a killer AP AND visual scope. CGE would be ideal for it, but the CG-5 is also do-able.

--------------------
~jon

SparkCast  Ustream

CGE1400XLT w/HyperStar
90FD 66SD C6-R SN-8
CPC1100XLT Hutech 20D
Mallincam MCHP
SPC900NC

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe." --Albert Einstein


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rmollise
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 1107
Re: Question About Cats new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2568932 - 08/08/08 05:04 PM

Quote:

Nobody but your pocket book is better off with a C11 on a CG5 mount. It is barely usable in visual mode, that C11 is just too much scope for the mount.






I do have to diasagree with this part of this otherwise very sensible post. It (the C11-SGT) is emininently useable for visual work. I use one frequently for that purpose. It is, frankly not much worse on the CG5 mount than the C14 is on the CGE IMHO. One tip? Vibration supression pads work wonders. It would not be my choice for imaging...BUT...folks have gotten good results.



--------------------
Peace,
Uncle Rod


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