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Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
TheQuark
newbie
Reged: 08/07/08
Posts: 4
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Hey, all, totally new to all of this. Been looking at the stars for years through binoculars, and when my youngest son suddenly got interested in astronomy on his own, I decided to go ahead and make the plunge and get a scope (an Orion 100MM ED refractor). I'm interested in direct visual observing with the kids, but also astrophotography (as non-astro photography is already a hobby  .
In any event, I got things set up for the first time, last night. I'm running firmware 3.1.0 on the handheld unit I just picked up from Orion's Cupertino store.
After getting it pointed basically north (using Polaris as a guide, though not using the Polaris guide scope), I told it my latitude and longitude (I live in San Carlos, CA, so I used 122 deg., 15 minutes W longitude by 37 deg., 29 minutes N latitude). Those coordinates were verified from a web site and two GPSs. I entered them five times, at least - even though I of course have a fear that I screwed something up, there.
Next, I set my time zone to -8, DST to "yes", and entered the time to the second from my mobile phone, which is networked synced and seems to be accurate to within a second based on other observations I've made.
Finally, it came time for me to select stars to align with. I was a little surprised when the first star it suggested was Sirius, since it wasn't up. Next on the list was Pollux, and I was starting to get worried. I tried to find "Vega", but it wasn't in the list.
Finally, I found "Arcturus" in the list, and select it. Rather than pointing west and up, the scope pointed somewhere to the northeast. Not backwards, either, some random direction. I slewed it back around to Arcturus using my hand controller, and next pointed it at Dubhe. This time, it got in the same basic neighborhood, so it was easier to hand-select.
At this point, if I were using the three-star alignment method, the scope would become perfectly insistent that the next star be one that was far below the western horizon. I finally gave up, and tried using the two-star alignment system with Arcturus and Dubhe. In that case, it told me it couldn't align, because it was more than forty-five degrees off.
I don't see how this can be a physical alignment problem - this seems like a software issue in the controller (or, again, that I messed up my location, somehow). Has anyone else seen anything like this?
I of course called tech support, and they (as I figured they would) of course said that the first thing I should do is upgrade the firmware. He couldn't tell me if there were any specific fixes he thought would help with this issue. I'm willing to do it, but I have a Mac, so it's going to be a big pain to actually do the flashing, and I'm going to be annoyed if I spend an hour and $37 (for the USB/serial cable from Best Buy) and this isn't the problem. To say nothing of the fact that I'm going camping on Monday and want to bring the scope, so I want this fixed NOW NOW NOW
Thanks a lot for any advice in advance...
-TQ
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d1anderson
sage
Reged: 10/11/07
Posts: 265
Loc: North Central Texas
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Hey TQ,
Sorry to hear about all the problems. I haven't any related experience so I can't offer any meaningful advice other than give it a little bit. Someone here on CN should be able to point you in the right direction.
Anyway welcome to Cloudy Nights and I hope everything works out. Enjoy your camping trip.
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Dewayne
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Z12 dob
MEADE DS2130AT NEWT 494goto
MEADE NG60 REFRACTOR
A Bunch of supplied Eye Pieces
The more you look the more you'll see! 
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Zebra24601
Postmaster
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 7400
Loc: San Gabriel Valley, CA 91770
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A couple of times my Sirius started pointing in crazy directions. I think I inadvently changed the time sign from "-" to "+" or something like that.
The other obvious thing to do is charge your battery, since a weak battery makes goto mounts do unpredictable things.
[A few nights ago, my LXD55 kept doing unpredictable and unsolicited slews. I'm hoping it was the battery. Got it all charged up, and I'll find out this weekend if that was the problem!]
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Zebra24601
Meade 8" SCT w/UHTC * Celestron 100ED * Celestron C11 * Barska 15x70 binoculars
Meade LXD55 mount * Orion Sirius goto mount * Bushnell Voyager 4.5" Compact Reflector
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TheQuark
newbie
Reged: 08/07/08
Posts: 4
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Well, I was running it off AC from my garage - figured I'd get it working at home where I have no dark skies at all, but easy electricity and lights. So, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a weak battery.
I agree with you, after the first mess up, I figured I'd gotten "+8" instead of "-8" or used "E" instead of "W" for my longitude. I double-checked the coords (and triple and quadruple checked them, later). I waas right on the time zone, but just for completeness sake, I also entered UTC and +0 with no DST, but that didn't fix it, either (though, I think, but wouldn't swear, that the scope did point differently under this configuration).
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Zebra24601
Postmaster
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 7400
Loc: San Gabriel Valley, CA 91770
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OK, the other "user error" thing I've done a time or two is to accidentally change the month. (When you start getting far-sighted, reading the little glowing red LEDs at night gets a little tricky!) That would also explain why it's giving you winter stars instead of summer stars.
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Zebra24601
Meade 8" SCT w/UHTC * Celestron 100ED * Celestron C11 * Barska 15x70 binoculars
Meade LXD55 mount * Orion Sirius goto mount * Bushnell Voyager 4.5" Compact Reflector
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16399
Loc: Brooker, FL
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Welcome to Cloudy Nights!
There's a forum for mounts; I suggest you request a moderator to move this thread there. You'll stand a much better chance of an answer, as not all mount gurus view this forum.
The mods are listed in green at the lower left of each page.
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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TheQuark
newbie
Reged: 08/07/08
Posts: 4
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Yeah, I was worried I had the date wrong, too (especially that I'd mixed up the day and month - though that's less of a problem today and tomorrow than normal ).
After an hour of wrestling with various computers (my USB to serial adapter didn't work and at first bricked my controller, and I finally had to get out an old Windows box with a real serial port I had in the closet), I finally updated to 03.22. If I tell it it's 2100, today, it lets me select Vega as a guid star, but points to the western horizon to show it to me. So, I guess I'm calling Orion tech support...
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TheQuark
newbie
Reged: 08/07/08
Posts: 4
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Replying to my own thread in case anyone else has similar problems...
After many hours of thinking I'm either stupid or crazy, I hauled the mount back down to the Orion dealer (about 45-minutes, round trip). The manager (who no doubt has dealt with a lot of people who can't get their mounts to work due to user error) told me it was probably a data entry problem. I pulled out the mount and controller, and walked him through the set up with me, which he agreed was basically right. We then set it for 2100 PDT, and told it to align off Vega. It promptly slewed to point to about 270 degrees azimuth with a 10 degree elevation. I can tell you I was very relieved when that happened, I'd been feeling like an idiot.
He said he'd never seen anything like that before, and grabbed another hand controller (and cable). He plugged in the new controller and cable, and set it up, himself. It then (properly) set itself to something like 90 degrees azimuth and 80 degrees elevations (guesses, I didn't have my protractor with me ), as it should.
In a slightly disturbing coda, as I was packing up, he tried the old handset, again...and it worked! He still let me take the new one with me, though. I got it home, and set it up, again, and it seems to be working (we'll see how well, tonight...)
Anyway, looks like it was some sort of (intermittent!?) controller problem. If you're sure you set up you EQ-G correctly and it seems to be on crack about where the stars are, it might not be you!
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JoelTN
member
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Gallatin, TN
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You are not alone. I received an Atlas EQ-G mount a couple of weeks ago,and the first chance I had to get it out was last night. I had exactly the same problem, the mount would pick stars for allignment below the horizon and then when I found one above, it would slew to a spot completely in the wrong direction.
For some reason even though I had entered my coordinates, time and time zone correctly, each time I would turn it back on, it would perserve the correct Long/Lat, but would change my -6 GMT into +6.
After unplugging the controller from the mount, I hooked it to my PC and tried to reload the firmware. It does not appear that it will let you load version 3.2 over top of itself, although it would confirm the hardware and software versions.
This obviously changed something, because when I restarted the mount, it works like a charm. Ghost in the machine, I suppose, but I will call Orion on Monday.
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Joel
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RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 819
Loc: Clouds-ville, Virginia
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There are a couple of interesting things with the SynScan controller, but they are not bad.
A few other tips - learned the hard way:
Make sure you set the scope to its Home position before you start the alignment. A few degrees make a big difference in that first star. After that, the hand paddle knows where it is and the second star is usually right on the money.
Try a Two star alignment and pick your own stars. That way you know where things should be.
If the controller doesn't show your selected star the first time through the alphabet, keep going through a second or third time. The first time I wanted to use Dubhe after Spica, it took four times through before the controller got the group of stars I wanted. Now it knows I use Dubhe a lot and shows it the first time.
All in all, I have been quite pleased with the performance of my SynScan unit. If I take the time to do a decent polar alignment, I can guarantee the object will be right in the inner third of the FOV every time. 
Take care,
Ron
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Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2 -- The New "Time Machine"
"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT
Ethos and Naglers
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier
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Skylook123
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/30/05
Posts: 3973
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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The as-close-to-Home-as-possible comment above is very appropriate. The mount always assumes, when the power comes on, that it is counterweight down and DEC = 90. Just a small amount off really makes the first star pointing seem wildly off.
However, there seems to be some sort of quirk in the recent hand controllers. I started with the old, unchangeable, v2.05 firmware version. Then, when the upgradeable model came out, I got one of the first ones and I've been upgrading it ever since with no issues, except that V3.10 was a disaster for bugginess; good thing you changed.
Mine's been bullet proof, but it's almost two years old. I've seen many experiences such as yours and Joel's; the signs on the position and time entries sometimes become phantoms and change on a whim.
Regarding the "won't load over the top of itself", that seems to be sometimes related to the type of connection. The HC hates USB, loves plain vanilla serial. The universe is full of the pain of folks trying to find the right USB2Serial adapter to support the hand controller if the computer does not have a serial port.
There are two valuable Yahoo groups for great resources and friendly, knowledgeable support. The EQ6 group (the SynScan firmware is identical among the Atlas/Sirius/Skywatcher EQ6 & HEQ5) is a place for help on the system as you've received it. However, there is a freeware open source software development effort that's been going on for about two years called EQMOD. It replaces the hand controller with a laptop running this amazing software package that does everything but make coffee at the observing site. Full support for autoguiding, pulse guiding, satellite tracking, extremely accurate pointing, observing list/sky tour support, several types of periodic error correcting and measurement, just an awesome package. The advantage of that group is that, if you are a member, there is a database file of USB2Serial converters and whether they support use with SynScan. EQMOD does require the use of an RS232-TTL converter (available from Shoestring Astronomy) or connection to a V3.21 (or later) Synscan hand controller operating in 'PC Direct' mode. The PC Direct mode is still buggy though; EQMOD works great straight into the mount.
Yahoo EQ6 (Yahoo Orion Atlas/Sirius, Skywatcher EQ6/HEQ5)
Yahoo EQMOD
Shoestring Astronomy
EQMOD Sourceforge Source Site
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Jim
A Bad Night With A Telescope
Beats A Good Night Doing Anything Else
Tectron 18" Truss Dob/Sky Commander DSCs, "Derrick"
Meade 10" LX-5 SCT/Atlas-G "Ol' Blue Eye"
Orion 90mm refractor,
Meade 10" Starfinder Newt/JMI NGCMax DSCs,
Celestron 10x50 Ultima Pro
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Nick-Sydney
member
Reged: 05/04/08
Posts: 97
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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That's very useful information Jim - thanks for posting. I've just purchased a HEQ5Pro 2nd hand. Haven't tried using it yet - but noticed is has v3.10.
Thanks,
Nick.
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8" GSO Dob | 16" LightBridge | WO M102SV | ZS80IIED | ZS66SD | 25x100 & 15x70 AOE Binos | 4mm UWAN | 3mm SPL | ZOOMII | 2" 30mm Andrews | SV BV3 | Baader Moon & Skyglow
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Skylook123
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/30/05
Posts: 3973
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Hope the information helps.
If you can, try to upgrade the firmware from V3.10 to one of the later versions. V3.10 was not terribly user friendly. Here's the Skywatcher site for firmware updates and the firmware loader code. It probably wouldn't hurt to download most of everything on the page, just to get the version notes to see what's fixed in each version.
Skywatcher SynScan Firmware Upgrade Site
You'll need a computer with some sort of serial port or USB2Serial adapter, the serial cable that comes with the hand controller (not the hand controller to mount cable; that's a different item), and the hand controller. Download the firmware updates, and the loader code. You don't need to load all the intervening versions; every one is stand-alone.
If you don't have the user manual(s), here's the place to download them for instructions on updating the firmware. You'll need to download the V3.0 AND the V3.11 versions. Then you'll need to check the downloads from the firmware page above to build a complete instruction set. While each firmware upgrade is stand alone, the instruction sets are highly modular, and it takes the whole doggone library (V3.0 + V3.11 + the references on the firmware page) to get a complete set.
Skywatcher SynScan/SynTrek User Manuals
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Jim
A Bad Night With A Telescope
Beats A Good Night Doing Anything Else
Tectron 18" Truss Dob/Sky Commander DSCs, "Derrick"
Meade 10" LX-5 SCT/Atlas-G "Ol' Blue Eye"
Orion 90mm refractor,
Meade 10" Starfinder Newt/JMI NGCMax DSCs,
Celestron 10x50 Ultima Pro
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JoelTN
member
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Gallatin, TN
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Thanks for your input Jim. I ordered the Shoestring Astronomy EQDIR thingee at the same time ordered the mount. Once I got the hand controller under control, I have hooked up the ASCOM deal using my PC. I am using it with Cartes du Ciel and it works remarkably well. You are correct when you said the EQMOD program will do everything but make coffee, and open source freeware to boot 
I sure appreciate everyone in these forums, can be pretty frustrating when you have a problem you know can be solved, but can't figure out how 
Joel
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Joel
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Skylook123
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/30/05
Posts: 3973
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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I just can't imagine how anyone without much experience with powered GEMs, expecially with the bells and whistles in a GOTO hand controller, can not be extremely frustrated with the documentation that comes with some of these. It's only through the community support that we can help smooth the learning process.
I don't know how someone not clued in to the EQ6 Yahoo group, or Cloudy Nights, would have any idea when firmware upgrades come out, much less all of the learning curve!
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Jim
A Bad Night With A Telescope
Beats A Good Night Doing Anything Else
Tectron 18" Truss Dob/Sky Commander DSCs, "Derrick"
Meade 10" LX-5 SCT/Atlas-G "Ol' Blue Eye"
Orion 90mm refractor,
Meade 10" Starfinder Newt/JMI NGCMax DSCs,
Celestron 10x50 Ultima Pro
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stevecoe
Reged: 04/24/04
Posts: 2129
Loc: Arizona, USA
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Jim;
I agree completely, there are some great resources on the Yahoo groups and without them I would not be nearly as proficent as I (think) am with my Sirius mount.
Clear skies;
Steve Coe
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150mm 6" f/8 Celestron Refractor on Sirius Mount
80mmED 3" f/7.5 Orion Refractor
Author "Deep Sky Observing" Springer-Verlag
Author "Nebulae and How to Observe Them" Springer
New Canon Xt astrocamera with Hutech modification
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