J_D_Metzger
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/04
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: NotThePainter]
#2598514 - 08/23/08 12:12 PM
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That's very interesting. The last post I see from Steve was on 8/16, in which he states that the "powers that be" have told him to tone down his enthusiasm. No posts at all since then, unless the moderators have deleted them.
I personally don't think Steve's posts were at all out of line, but nobody asked for my opinion...
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BlueMoon
sage
Reged: 06/14/07
Loc: Idaho, USA
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: J_D_Metzger]
#2599021 - 08/23/08 04:45 PM
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CN has banned him from posting for being too enthusiastic about the Mini Tower.
Well, that's a first for me. In all the forums I've frequented, I've never seen anyone "banned" for enthusiasm... 
Edited by BlueMoon (08/23/08 04:47 PM)
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king1522
sage
Reged: 04/25/08
Loc: Texas
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: BlueMoon]
#2599147 - 08/23/08 06:51 PM
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Dang, I was learning a lot from Steve. There are probably not enough owners out there yet to give very many useful opinions. I could email him, but not everyone would benefit from his opinion. What are we to do? Post his response here?
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BlueMoon
sage
Reged: 06/14/07
Loc: Idaho, USA
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: king1522]
#2599185 - 08/23/08 07:19 PM
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Ah, I see. Steve is affiliated with Trapezium Telescopes... I guess his exuberance may have been a breech of "advertising policy" for the CN forums...
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: king1522]
#2599197 - 08/23/08 07:27 PM
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Please let's get the story straight. As far as I know Steve's not banned forever. He's been given a few days off for persistently not sticking to the vendor requirements in the TOS on quite a number of levels. I (and others) have tried hard to warn him about it and I also tried *very hard* to help him understand what is and is not permitted from a vendor posting in the open forums, but Steve just kept posting away like he isn't a vendor at all. Sooner or later the administration had to take a stand or else abandon trying to hold vendors to a highter standard (which isn't going to happen).
I really hope he'll be back - he's a good guy. In the meantime, let's not fuel the speculation on this or turn this thread into a flame on the management, okay? They are just doing their job.
Charlie
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J_D_Metzger
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/04
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: Charlie Hein]
#2599290 - 08/23/08 08:33 PM
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The only thing I can find in the TOS under the "Vendors" section that seems to apply is the following:
"Vendors are expected to act professionally and are held to a high standard when posting. The right is reserved to take corrective action deemed appropriate by the administrators and moderators, including but not limited to deletion of posts, temporary or permanent bans, and loss of rights to free advertising."
I can find nothing that actually defines "professional" conduct or a "high standard", unless I missed something. It appears that the moderators can pretty much arbitarily decide what is allowed and what isn't, and take whatever action they feel like...
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: J_D_Metzger]
#2599519 - 08/23/08 11:29 PM
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It's counterproductive to get into a back and forth with you on this J.D. (before I let that happen I'll lock the thread down first) but you're apparently not reading far enough down the TOS...
"Vendors, please be aware that product pushing will also be considered a violation of the TOS."
You can cross the line from directly answering a poster's question on some product you sell to outright promotion pretty easily. The intent is for vendors to strictly stick to answering direct questions on a product ("Does the Mini-Tower come in blue?"). This is not as easy for the vendor to do as you would think, and like it or not it is up to the management to determine what is or is not product pushing. Hence the comment about being "too enthusiastic". Steve has been counseled on this at length on several occasions by multiple people, including myself.
"In addition, vendors/manufacturers are to refrain from commenting on their competitor’s equipment (directly or indirectly). Please restrain your comments to products you manufacture or resell."
We all know that Steve freely shares his opinions on a lot of different gear on a very regular basis. He cannot do so as a vendor without crossing this part of the TOS. Likewise, Steve has been counseled on this point on numerous occasions.
He's also been given many warnings to cease and desist. He didn't. He got a time out because he didn't. Like it or not, that's how it works.
Charlie
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J_D_Metzger
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/04
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: Charlie Hein]
#2599572 - 08/24/08 12:02 AM
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Hi Charlie,
I'm really not trying to get into a push and shove, truly. I'm just trying to understand where the line is. I have enjoyed reading Steve's very informative posts about the Mini-Tower, and I think others have also. I personally would not classify his posts as "product pushing". I just think the TOS is very vague in its wording, and leaves too much to the judgement of the moderators. Personal opinion. I'll let it rest...
Hopefully some of the new non-vendor owners of the Mini Tower will start posting their experiences.
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: J_D_Metzger]
#2599684 - 08/24/08 01:18 AM
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Me too, J.D.
Charlie
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jasonj998
Banned - Duplicate Account
Reged: 08/19/08
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: Charlie Hein]
#2599959 - 08/24/08 08:56 AM
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I have found very helpful reading Steve's posting and nothing inappropriate. Wish his coming back soon. Jason
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RAKing
Postmaster
Reged: 12/28/07
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: jasonj998]
#2599986 - 08/24/08 09:16 AM
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I also enjoy Steve's posts and hope he comes back soon.
It sounds like what we need here on CN is for some customers to post reviews of their experience with the Mini-Tower. If the product is any good, I'm sure we will see those soon enough and I value those reviews as much (if not more) than a vendor's write up.
Ron
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SteveC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/15/06
Loc: The Garden State & Ocean State
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: Charlie Hein]
#2600091 - 08/24/08 10:10 AM
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Me too, J.D.
Charlie
So there's no truth to the rumor that Steve hooked up the Mini tower to his auto's GPS and he ended up in S. Dakota?
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Teal'c
Indeed
Reged: 08/02/05
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: SteveC]
#2600258 - 08/24/08 11:19 AM
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Me too, J.D.
Charlie
So there's no truth to the rumor that Steve hooked up the Mini tower to his auto's GPS and he ended up in S. Dakota?
It was Point Pleasant WV. 
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bcuddihee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/04/06
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: SteveC]
#2600272 - 08/24/08 11:24 AM
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I realize that a moderators position is a tough one and one has to be fair to everyone, but by in a case like this I feel everyone looses.
It seems to me that there is nothing wrong with a vendor being enthusiastic..not a euphemism for pushing product, about the products they carry...provided they represent themselves as vendors. This is where the line should be drawn. Maybe this should be visibly more obvious on their post heading. Vendors "posing as customers" should be censored. The reason for this forum is the exchange of information and experiences.
I was not the only one who was learning some very valuable info about a product that I might be interested in purchasing. Quizzing a vendor is a great way to do this. Often the only info on a new product is through the vendor replying to questions ...and adding some info of his own that was not asked for simply because people have not yet seen enough of the product to know the appropriate questions to ask. A suggestion..perhaps in the future if a known vendor is posting they could have a highlighted post heading that is recognizable instantaneously to those viewing the post. They can make up their own minds on taking the info provided, with or without a grain of salt. I wish more vendors were as enthusiastic about what the sell.
Thanks
bc
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SteveC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/15/06
Loc: The Garden State & Ocean State
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: Teal'c]
#2600319 - 08/24/08 11:58 AM
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Me too, J.D.
Charlie
So there's no truth to the rumor that Steve hooked up the Mini tower to his auto's GPS and he ended up in S. Dakota?
It was Point Pleasant WV.
 ....... so now were playing the Cloudy Night's version of "Where's Waldo"? Besides, any place named Point Pleasant, can't be that bad !
Good luck, Steve, where ever you are?
Edited by SteveC (08/24/08 12:02 PM)
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SteveC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/15/06
Loc: The Garden State & Ocean State
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: bcuddihee]
#2600341 - 08/24/08 12:09 PM
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Even though we all know that moderators are the most despicable human beings on the the planet, the lowliest of lowlies, you should give them a break. They gave Steve a long leash as a vendor.
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king1522
sage
Reged: 04/25/08
Loc: Texas
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: SteveC]
#2600352 - 08/24/08 12:12 PM
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I noticed the manual implies the mount has a backlash and anti-backlash settings. I am curious to know if the Mini Tower has the same problems as the Celestron SE mount. Too bad Steve isn't here to answer. Perhaps someone else knows that answer? This is one of the main reasons I am considering replacing that mount with the Mini. Oh, and by the way, I've never received an answer to how much the mount weighs. Does anyone know that?
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Dylan Gladstone
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/05/07
Loc: Connecticut, USA
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: king1522]
#2600430 - 08/24/08 12:57 PM
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Oh, and by the way, I've never received an answer to how much the mount weighs. Does anyone know that?
I'd like to know the answer to that one myself. It's odd that it isn't listed in the specs anywhere.
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Talstarone
Lunar Man
Reged: 09/12/06
Loc: Pinetops, NC
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: king1522]
#2600604 - 08/24/08 02:33 PM
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I noticed the manual implies the mount has a backlash and anti-backlash settings. I am curious to know if the Mini Tower has the same problems as the Celestron SE mount. Too bad Steve isn't here to answer. Perhaps someone else knows that answer? This is one of the main reasons I am considering replacing that mount with the Mini. Oh, and by the way, I've never received an answer to how much the mount weighs. Does anyone know that?
Hi Don.I was wondering what problems exist with the SE GOTO Mount.
I have the small sized SE mount that works for the 4 and 5SE optical tubes.I have not had a chance to put it through its paces as of yet.But it seems I may be dissappointed.
I have even committed to purchase an Astro-Tech AT-80 to use on the SE Mount. So is the Cube or Mini-Tower a better performer then the SE.
I would love to get a Mini-Tower but without knowing its weight, I dont know if I can carry it outside in one piece like I can with the SE.
So any help you or anyother member can provide would be appreciated.
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jasonj998
Banned - Duplicate Account
Reged: 08/19/08
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Re: iOptron Mini Tower
[Re: Talstarone]
#2600671 - 08/24/08 03:12 PM
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The Mini comes with an aluminum suit case, total of 29 lb (there is a cw of 10 lb inside). The tripod is 13 lb (additional). I just checked ioptron web, these two numbers were listed in the product spec. It is comfortable carrying the case on one hand and the tripod on the other. By the way, I like the aluminum case very much.
Jason
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