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Benny Boy
member
Reged: 07/20/08
Posts: 58
Loc: Montreal, Canada
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Hi all, sorry for asking another noob question.
Since weather is... well, very bad, everytime i see some kind of clear sky windows i go out with the C8 and the CG-5 and practice my star alignment.
I think i have mastered the polar align, so after the scope is balance and set to index, i choose a 2 stars align and proceed.
First star is WAY off (i don't know, probably over 30deg), second is better. I choose to add a few stars, third is ok but still not in the scope view, fourth is very close but still not in the scope view... the fifth one is about the same as the fouth. I have stoped there and i wonder if at #4 or 5 i should be ON the star?
Anything i'm missing here. This is my fifth try at that new scope and GoTo system.
If i need like 6 or seven star align just tell me.
Thanks for any comments or advice.
Regards, Benny
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Life is to short...
C8-SGT (XLT) with CG5-GT Mounth & Tripod
W.O. ZenithStar 66 SD APO with Losmandy adapter.
SkyScoot and Garmin GPS.
and a lot of acc. and eyepiece.
Bino 20 X 80
Bino 7 X 50
Canon 300 f/2.8 & 600mm f/4 with 1.4 & 2X TC
http://www.benplace.com/
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EWhytsell
super member
Reged: 06/15/08
Posts: 165
Loc: North Central Ohio
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The first thing you should do when setting up your telescope for the night is "eyeball" the RA axis and line it up towards Polaris. If you have an alignment scope thats even better, but unnecessary.
The next thing to do is level the scope at good as you can. You don't need it perfect, but having the bubble in the circle on the level is good enough.
Next when you turn it on and start your star alignment the time/date and your location need to be as close as you can get without trying to hard.
Once this stuff is set up you should be at least in the right direction of the first star and the 2nd star and the calibration stars should be very close.
At times all I need to do is align to the first star and the rest are in the eyepiece and need minor adjustment. Other times I gotta use the finder to get them ball parked first.
Evan
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Classic C8 Super Polaris upgraded to CG-5 mount
Canon 40D unmodded
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Benny Boy
member
Reged: 07/20/08
Posts: 58
Loc: Montreal, Canada
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Quote:
The first thing you should do when setting up your telescope for the night is "eyeball" the RA axis and line it up towards Polaris. If you have an alignment scope thats even better, but unnecessary.
The next thing to do is level the scope at good as you can. You don't need it perfect, but having the bubble in the circle on the level is good enough.
Next when you turn it on and start your star alignment the time/date and your location need to be as close as you can get without trying to hard.
Once this stuff is set up you should be at least in the right direction of the first star and the 2nd star and the calibration stars should be very close.
At times all I need to do is align to the first star and the rest are in the eyepiece and need minor adjustment. Other times I gotta use the finder to get them ball parked first.
Evan
Thanks Evan, as my English is a bit basic, could you elaborate on ""eyeball" the RA axis", i'm not sure what you mean here, sorry...
But what i know is the scope is also align with the polar star, i have an eyepiece in the CG-5 for polar align, so both the scope and the mounth are align (is that possible and right???).
The scope bubble level seem deffective on my mounts, that i know. I have added tonight a second level bubble on my mounts but the weather.... well, we won't talk about this one.
Time and date are fine, location, well i choose Montreal as i'm just a few miles from downtown. I will double check next time. Still, why would the first star align would be so far off??? Daylight saving??? I may be wronf on that one?.
I have a GPS and a SkyScoop to put a more precise location, i will do so next time.
Thanks for your comments.
Ben
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Life is to short...
C8-SGT (XLT) with CG5-GT Mounth & Tripod
W.O. ZenithStar 66 SD APO with Losmandy adapter.
SkyScoot and Garmin GPS.
and a lot of acc. and eyepiece.
Bino 20 X 80
Bino 7 X 50
Canon 300 f/2.8 & 600mm f/4 with 1.4 & 2X TC
http://www.benplace.com/
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EWhytsell
super member
Reged: 06/15/08
Posts: 165
Loc: North Central Ohio
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By "eyeball" I meant the mount should be pointed towards north and just looking up the axis towards the north star should be good enough. 9 times out of 10 I can get it to within 1 degree simply by looking, but I've been aligning the german style mounts for over 20 years.
I'd say that the closest I've ever gotten the first alignment star is probably 5-10 degrees when the scopes done slewing towards it. I don't usually get the time down to the minute. I wouldn't worry to much about the first star as long as your GOTO is getting you close to objects your trying to view and the "precise GOTO" is getting objects in your eyepiece 99% of the time. If this is not the case then you may need to do some adjustment to the mount.
Oh BTW have you done the mount calibrations in the menus? They run your motors a full turn in all 4 directions to attempt to calculate your backlash and PE. This will help get your scope working better as well.
Evan
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Classic C8 Super Polaris upgraded to CG-5 mount
Canon 40D unmodded
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garyc11
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/20/04
Posts: 2779
Loc: Niagara Falls,NY
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if the daylight savings setting is wrong it would cause the problem you are having.
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CGE 1400
CPC 1100
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Celestron 100 ED
CG5-GT
Celestron C-8 Newtonion
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 6788
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Hi Benny,
More than likely the 'home' or start position index marks are off (common CG5 problem). The best thing to do is ignore them and set the scope up with the OTA pointing towards Polaris and the counterweight shaft pointing straight down as you look at it from the front. This is the real start position. If the index marks were in the correct position, that's how the scope would be setup.
Regardless of how the scope is positioned, it really doesn't matter much after the first and second star alignment. I've also found that it really helps to add a couple of calibration stars when asked. Like you, I've found that each successive star get a little more accurate. Another trick to use after you've done you're alignment is to 'sync' on your target if it took a bit of centering to get it in the eyepiece. That way other targets in the area should be pretty close when you goto them. When you go to another part of the sky you can do the same thing.
Patrick
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Discovery 10" f/6 Split Tube Dob
Celestron C6 SCT
Denk Binoviewers
AT66ED Refractor
Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Binocular
475B Geared Tripod & 501HDV Head
Oberwerk 9x60 Binocular
Celestron Regal 8x42 Binocular
Canon 30D DSLR
Mini EQ1
My Astronomy Pages
Edited by Patrick (08/08/08 07:52 AM)
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Benny Boy
member
Reged: 07/20/08
Posts: 58
Loc: Montreal, Canada
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Again, and like always, a big thanks Patrick.
And to all also.
I will double check that stuff.... as soon as the sky stop falling on me.
Regards, Ben
--------------------
Life is to short...
C8-SGT (XLT) with CG5-GT Mounth & Tripod
W.O. ZenithStar 66 SD APO with Losmandy adapter.
SkyScoot and Garmin GPS.
and a lot of acc. and eyepiece.
Bino 20 X 80
Bino 7 X 50
Canon 300 f/2.8 & 600mm f/4 with 1.4 & 2X TC
http://www.benplace.com/
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Terrance
sage
Reged: 08/11/04
Posts: 274
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And, be sure when you are aligning either alignment stars or calibration stars that you follow the old "Up/Right" rule, meaning that
the last up or down pointing arrow button you push should be the "up" arrow, and also the "right" pointing arrow button rather than the left pointing one.
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Terrance
Celestron 9.25 SCT
10" f/5 X-Class Dob
SV 102ED
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Fred1
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/19/07
Posts: 767
Loc: Garnet Valley, Pennsylvania
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All good advice above. Here's a few more things to consider:
1) Check your polar scope's alignment in the daytime (even during a cloud cover). Set up the mount as usual and aim the polar scope at a fixed object, like a knob on an telephone pole or electric pole about a 1/4 mile away. Then rotate the RA axis as you look through the polar scope. If the object moves around in the polar scope then it needs alignment, which is easily done with the set screws.
2) For my CG5 I used 2 strips of yellow electrical tape 1/2" wide across the axis motor housings roughly where the index markers are. I then slit the tape with a razor along the crease in the tape where the motor housings meet. The yellow tape is much easier to see and align than the stock index markers are.
3) The bubble level in the mount is probably off (mine is). I use a bubble "T" or a small staight level. A small straight level fits nicely along the small ledge on the front, and side of the mount near the altitude adjustments.
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Fred
Celestron 8" SCT w/Starizona Feathertouch Microfocuser and Orion 9x50 RACI FinderScope;
Stellarvue Nighthawk Aplanat w/Orion 6x30 RACI Finderscope
Vixen Sphinx SXD/Hal 130
Celestron CG5-ASGT
Stellarvue M1/Surveyor Tripod
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Benny Boy
member
Reged: 07/20/08
Posts: 58
Loc: Montreal, Canada
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|
Quote:
All good advice above. Here's a few more things to consider:
1) Check your polar scope's alignment in the daytime (even during a cloud cover). Set up the mount as usual and aim the polar scope at a fixed object, like a knob on an telephone pole or electric pole about a 1/4 mile away. Then rotate the RA axis as you look through the polar scope. If the object moves around in the polar scope then it needs alignment, which is easily done with the set screws.
2) For my CG5 I used 2 strips of yellow electrical tape 1/2" wide across the axis motor housings roughly where the index markers are. I then slit the tape with a razor along the crease in the tape where the motor housings meet. The yellow tape is much easier to see and align than the stock index markers are.
3) The bubble level in the mount is probably off (mine is). I use a bubble "T" or a small staight level. A small straight level fits nicely along the small ledge on the front, and side of the mount near the altitude adjustments.
Thanks, well, tonight was the first clear night since... i don't remember. I went to a field to practice a bit, well, it's worse and worse.... even with the 2 + 4 star align i'm way off at the end. I mean, i did the first one and it was way off, ok, the second one not that bad. I choose 1 more, not that bad, but the next one (Vega i think) was so far off that it was almost a joke, i mean like 40-50 deg off. I kept on going... when done with the 4 optional one, i choose Jupiter and i was way off. I mean it's useless to use the GoTo if it's so off. I'm happy with the mount itself and the scope feel good (C8).
For now i'm a bit deceived about the GoTo system. I was hoping for more precision. I will double check everything you guys told me. Unless i'm doing something baldy wrong ?, this system is no good to any noob, on the opposite, it's worthless.
One question, does it make sense that the scope is pointing at the polar star when the EQ/polar viewer is also???
I'm kind of lost here... I know the EQ mount level / bubble is off, and pretty off, i will add one tomorrow and see how off the original one is but even if i'm a little bit off, can Vega could have been so off???. Tonight, i have learn about dew... Grrrr. I was still close to the city so seeing was not that good, i can wait to go out in the wood.
For now, i have the "blues", like any noob i guess, i'm tired of looking at a fuzzy jupiter.. i want and i need a bit more deep sky stuff to keep me going.
I was trying (hoping) to see a few Messier object but the GoTo was so off that i only had the reliable SkyScoop (and a few maps) to point object... i was working had to see a little bit of something... but nothing...
Have no worry, i'm not done, far from it!
Cheers, Ben
--------------------
Life is to short...
C8-SGT (XLT) with CG5-GT Mounth & Tripod
W.O. ZenithStar 66 SD APO with Losmandy adapter.
SkyScoot and Garmin GPS.
and a lot of acc. and eyepiece.
Bino 20 X 80
Bino 7 X 50
Canon 300 f/2.8 & 600mm f/4 with 1.4 & 2X TC
http://www.benplace.com/
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EWhytsell
super member
Reged: 06/15/08
Posts: 165
Loc: North Central Ohio
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by the time you get to the setting the calibration stars I would think it would be pointing within 1-2 degrees accurancy and most of the time they land in my C-8's 27mm eyepiece at F10 so thats about half a degree.
If its off that bad I'd guess you are probably getting some slipping. You might want to take apart the mount and clean any grease off the clutch surfaces and try again.
With that C-8 are you using 2 counter weights? I've never tried mine with just one. I use an 11 lb one and added a 5 lb one from my old scope.
Evan
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Classic C8 Super Polaris upgraded to CG-5 mount
Canon 40D unmodded
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Fred1
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/19/07
Posts: 767
Loc: Garnet Valley, Pennsylvania
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Ben, it might be best if you describe in detail your set up. Include all the equipment used, OTA, EPs, counterweights, and any other accessories, as well as the specific settings you input in the Hand Control. That would save a lot of back and forth with questions. Take notes as you go through your set up procedures.
My gut feeeling is that one or more of the settings are wrong or the mount is out of balance. Absent that, then if it's a new mount, I'd contact Celestron as it might be defective.
Also, if you could, please, confirm that the polar scope is aligned, as I described previously.
If the mount isn't defective, then I'm sure we can work it out.
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Fred
Celestron 8" SCT w/Starizona Feathertouch Microfocuser and Orion 9x50 RACI FinderScope;
Stellarvue Nighthawk Aplanat w/Orion 6x30 RACI Finderscope
Vixen Sphinx SXD/Hal 130
Celestron CG5-ASGT
Stellarvue M1/Surveyor Tripod
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Benny Boy
member
Reged: 07/20/08
Posts: 58
Loc: Montreal, Canada
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Ho guys, i won't tell you what i did wrong (i went to the scope shop).... shame on me!!!
The nice guy at the shop offered me to do a step by step with me before sending the scope for repair just to see if i wad doing something wrong.... we stop at step 2!!!!!!!!!
Yep, i have assumed that the unit was keeping the day and hour in memory, i mean not the date an hour LAST TIME I HAVE USE THE SCOPE!!! I was sure it had an internal small battery... So, of course, i was using this one with the setting input 2+ week ago....
I'm so sorry to have started this thread! Well, i hope it serve other noob like me.
Again, sorry gentlemen's, i fell like... you know what.
Still, i have learn a lot on that thread.
Best regards to you guys!!!
Ben
--------------------
Life is to short...
C8-SGT (XLT) with CG5-GT Mounth & Tripod
W.O. ZenithStar 66 SD APO with Losmandy adapter.
SkyScoot and Garmin GPS.
and a lot of acc. and eyepiece.
Bino 20 X 80
Bino 7 X 50
Canon 300 f/2.8 & 600mm f/4 with 1.4 & 2X TC
http://www.benplace.com/
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JonM
member
Reged: 07/25/08
Posts: 11
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Hi Ben
Don't feel too bad. I also made the same mistake the second time I took my CG-5 out for a spin. I also figured the darn thing should be keeping time. I figured it out the third time I went out though. If the mount does not maintain time and date, it probably should not even offer an option to begin at last alignment. This seems useless to me for even scopes set on permanent observatories will have to reset the date and time each time the scope is used. The only thing the mount remembers is Latitude and Longitude of last alignment. Hope you enjoy your CG-5 now.
Jon
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Jon
Orion 120ED
C102-HD
CG-4
CG-5 Advanced GT
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EWhytsell
super member
Reged: 06/15/08
Posts: 165
Loc: North Central Ohio
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Not putting a battery in the hand control to keep date/time info was something I thought was pretty odd these days too.
Don't feel bad for starting the thread. I love working out problems and chatting. I guess we all forgot to keep it simple this time:-)
Evan
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Classic C8 Super Polaris upgraded to CG-5 mount
Canon 40D unmodded
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