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Announcements and News >> Light Pollution

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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Light pollution in North East USA....
      #2569521 - 08/08/08 10:34 PM

So guys i understand there are many that share my situation.

I live in central new jersey, only 50-60 miles away from new york city, which is the absolute worst place in the world probably to be a star gazer.

I have taken a link from the clear sky chart website. The observatory i use is the Holmdel S.T.A.R association's. It is located only 4.9 miles away from my house.

Here is the light pollution map of central new jersey, with the Cross hair located over my observatory of choice, which can also be considered my home location.

http://www.cleardarksky.com/lp/HlmdlNYlp.html?Mn=focuser

So, I live in a Red zone, and under 10-20 miles away from a white zone. This is pretty disheartening news.

Look at the color guide chart below the map, it gives a brief description of what each zone would appear like to the naked eye.

The descriptions that are offered saying that you can see the entire milky way, or some of the messier objects with your naked eye shocked me into perspective on just how light polluted my area really is.

"Milkyway at best very faint at zenith. M31 difficult and indestinct. Sky is grey up to 35 degrees. Limiting magntidue 5.0 to 5.5."

This is the description for the red zone I'm located at...and its correct about the part where the sky is Grey all around on lower degrees. However, in all the time living here i have never seen the milky way or any galaxies with the naked eye.

I do all my observing in my backyard behind my house. To the north and east, i am surrounded by very high trees which block out all light. To the west and south I can see tall trees in the distance, but the perspective allows me a pretty clear view of the western and especially south, south east, south western skies. My observing site is almost 95% void of any intruding light. To make matters even better, the light pole near my house is broken and hasn't worked for over a year! great luck i think. It is so dark at my backyard observing site sometimes my eyes cant adjust to the darkness for almost an entire hour; and i am only in my 20s!

This thread's intention is to collect opinions and suggestions for people living in our area, and dealing with what is perhaps the WORST light pollution in the entire world.

What can we do in our area to improve viewing conditions, short of just transporting by car to a distant dark area? I want our members to be able to improve their own situation at their home, as this is where 80% or more of all the observations will take place.

Has anyone had any great experiences with UHC or light pollution filters? if so which ones and how much did it help?

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2098
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Light pollution in North East USA.... new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2571583 - 08/10/08 06:23 AM

Quote:

I live in central new jersey, only 50-60 miles away from new york city, which is the absolute worst place in the world probably to be a star gazer.




Not even close! For a city of its size, New York has outstandingly dark skies. And even many much smaller cities in the U.S. have worse conditions. I remember a stargazer from Houston being amazed how much better conditions were in Manhattan.

Other really big cities, such as Tokyo or Singapore, have vastly worse skies than New York. Which, however, does not stop people from doing astronomy there.

To put it in perspective, more than one person has viewed all of the Messier objects from Manhattan in a 4-inch telescope.

Quote:

The descriptions that are offered saying that you can see the entire milky way, or some of the messier objects with your naked eye shocked me




Well, I live in Cambridge, MA, right near the center of the big white blob that is Greater Boston. The Milky Way is not visible from my local park, but I find M44 and the Double Cluster pretty easy naked-eye targets, and M31 is visible on a good night.

What's the difference between you and me? Practice and persistence. Also, instead of being grumpy about my skies, I take a glass-half-full attitude.

Quote:

What can we do in our area to improve viewing conditions, short of just transporting by car to a distant dark area? ... Has anyone had any great experiences with UHC or light pollution filters?




Sorry, in this particular case, technology does not provide a solution to the problem that technology has made. If you're willing to view things electronically rather than directly, various kinds of CCD cameras and image intensifiers will show amazing things from heavily light-polluted skies. For instance, M57 has been imaged with the Sun still above the horizon.

But if you want to see things with your eyes through an eyepiece, you have only two choices: go to a darker place or train your eyes to see better.

Narrowband filters are tremendously helpful for a small number of objects -- emission and planetary nebulae. But no filter can help much for galaxies and star clusters.

--------------------
Tony Flanders

eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Light pollution in North East USA.... new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #2575773 - 08/12/08 01:09 AM

Great post Tony F.,

I said probably because i didn't know if it really was the worst per say, but if what you say is correct that does make me feel a lot better about out situation. Perhaps i overestimated the light pollution map's accuracy.

Youre right about proper attitude, i should definitely start thinking about it as half dark skies

By the way, I am shopping right now for one great nebula filter.

My choices are down to these two:

Lumicon's Deep sky, or Lumicon's UHC

I have heard that you can only use the UHC filter under reasonably dark skies, as light pollution reduces its effect. uhc is the narrowband.

The deep sky filter is a broadband that will give me a dark sky view (almost), while being in a Red LP zone.

Which would you say are better for our area?

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2098
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Light pollution in North East USA.... new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2575912 - 08/12/08 06:15 AM

Quote:

Perhaps i overestimated the light pollution map's accuracy.




As far as I can tell, that map is reasonably accurate. But if you look at it, you'll see that the white blob around NYC is considerably smaller than the one around (mess less populous) Chicago, about the same as L.A., and barely bigger than the ones around much smaller cities such as Detroit, Minneapolis, and Montreal. Then take a look at Japan for a really sobering comparison.

Quote:


My choices are down to these two:

Lumicon's Deep sky, or Lumicon's UHC

I have heard that you can only use the UHC filter under reasonably dark skies, as light pollution reduces its effect.




It's definitely not true that light pollution reduces the effectiveness of narrowband nebula filters. On the contrary, from my home in Cambridge, my UHC greatly expands the nebulosity that I can see in M8, and it makes several nebulae visible that would be completely invisible otherwise.

I'd say that narrowband filters like the UHC are clearly more useful than broadband filters like the Deep Sky. The latter provide (at best) marginal help on a large number of objects. Narrowband filters only work on a relatively small number of objects, but when they work, they often perform miracles.

For instance, you should get a pretty decent view of the Veil from the red zone with a narrowband filter. Without a filter, seeing the Veil at all would be a major accomplishment.

--------------------
Tony Flanders

eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs


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Illinois
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 557
Loc: near Chicago, Illinois USA
Re: Light pollution in North East USA.... new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #2576332 - 08/12/08 11:32 AM

NarrowbandFilter is not help much in my backyard....white zone but Skyglow filter is little noticable improve! Narrowband Filter is much better in my parents' backyard.....yellow zone!

--------------------
Astronomer since 1975!
Meade 16" Lightbridge Dobsonian
Orion 10" SkyQuest Classic Dobsonian
Tele Vue Eyepieces
Orion Expanse Wide-Field 6mm eyepiece
4.5" F5 Reflector since 1982!
Orion Narrowband and SkyGlow filters
Member of IDA, let's fight light pollution!

Old Edmund 6"F8...donated to cousins
Super Polaris C8...donated to Byron Observatory in Illinois


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Light pollution in North East USA.... new [Re: Illinois]
      #2580129 - 08/14/08 12:26 AM

Haha, dont you just love contrasting opinions?

Ive had quite a few pros on cloudynights suggest only a UHC as an end all be all dso filter so that i what im getting.

Now just trying to decide between the indestructible Astronomik UHC, the classic lumicon UHC, or the not well known Orion UltraBlock, and the DGM NPB.

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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