Tommy5
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1391
Loc: Chicagoland
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Finally after a year or so of searching i was able to spot the grsjr. I have seen the ba oval before it turned red when jup was high in the sky but last night was the first time i was able to confirm seeing it with 6" achro. Last night we had calm steamy conditions and the grs was at the meridian at 11;26 close to when jup passed the local high point so this was my best chance to view it this year.The grs was easy to see and by using averted vision i could the small gap above and before the grs where jr sat. I never would have noticed it if i didn't know exactly where it was in fact i only saw it three or four quick glances as the the seeing was blurry off and and for my couple of hours watching jup. I made a quick sketch after the grs crossed the meridian, there was a little festoon action hanging off the neb much less then last year, the neb was dark and in some turmoil, the seb had a monster rift in it as was much less dark then the neb it looked full of whorls and crud and cotton too complex and dim to draw accurately, i used 220x and 171x with a #11 yellow-green, and a moon filter to cut jup's glare, jup was so low no diagonal was needed so i got a traditional inverted newtonian view of jup, at times the atmosphere would steady and i found myself saying wow wow at all of the detail,  my sketch doesn't do jup credit but here it is anyway.
Edited by Tommy5 (07/30/08 12:04 PM)
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CarlosEH
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 3115
Loc: Pembroke Pines, Broward County...
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Tommy,
An excellent observation of Jupiter showing much detail. I am glad that you were finally able to view the GRS Jr. Observing Jupiter with it's wealth of detail is always a pleasure. Thank you for sharing it with us all.
Carlos
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frank5817
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/13/06
Posts: 3041
Loc: Illinois
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Tommy5,
Great Jupiter sketch.   We were out observing and sketching the gas giant at about the same time. As good as your seeing was when you made your sketch, it was even better when the Chicago Cubs were still playing in the late innings. The few bright stars I could see with all the water vapor and haze were absolutely rock steady. With your permission can I post my sketch and report below? 
Frank 
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Tommy5
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1391
Loc: Chicagoland
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Thanks frank, go ahead and post your sketch,yes that was a steady night for star gazing.It reminds me of the summer of Mars'03 when calm steady skies revealed a glorious mars night after night,with great seeing and the cubs in first place these are the best of times. 
Edited by Tommy5 (07/30/08 12:06 PM)
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frank5817
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/13/06
Posts: 3041
Loc: Illinois
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Jupiter with 3 Moons
Weather conditions were warm and humid. In addition to the water vapor in the atmosphere, smoke from distant fires reduced the NELM to magnitude 3.5. On the Pickering scale the seeing was 8/10 and for a short interval of a few minutes duration 9/10.
I took advantage of these conditions to capture Jupiter and 3 of the Galilean moons. The sketch shows Jupiter inverted as seen in a Newtonian reflector. The moons from left to right (preceding side to following side) are Europa, Ganymede, and Io. Callisto was just outside the viewing field to the right of Io.
Jupiter was an hour or so east of the meridian at the beginning of my observation but less than 26° above the horizon throughout. The Great Red Spot was clearly visible between the south equatorial belt and the south temperate zone. Red Spot Junior was also visible south of the GRS. A prominent bluish festoon could easily be seen extending outward from the reddish brown north equatorial belt into the equatorial zone in the “following direction”. It was a rare treat to have such a good view of Jupiter with it is so low in the southern sky.
Sketching:
For this sketch I used: black Strathmore 400 Artagain paper, 8”x 8”, and white and black Conte’pastel pencils. I added the moons to the “black paper” electronically after scanning and reducing the image in size. I placed the moons on a rough field sketch created for that transfer after scanning. Brightness was slightly decreased (-4) and contrast increased (+3) after scanning using Microsoft Office Picture Manager.
Telescope: 10 inch f/5.7 Dobsonian and 12mm eyepiece 121x
No filters were used
Date: 7-29-2008: 3:15 – 4:25 UT
Temperature: 24°C (75°F)
hazy, calm
Seeing: Pickering 8.0 - 9.0
Frank McCabe
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Tommy5
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1391
Loc: Chicagoland
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Wow great sketch frank, lots of detail for so little mag 121x, i think the hazy sky worked to dim jup somewhat and increase contrast,you got the big rift in seb down perfect as well as the darker spot in the grs and of course jr. sometimes steady summer skies trump clear fall, winter skies for planets even though he planets are postioned much higher in the winter,thanks for posting, excellant sketch again.
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frank5817
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/13/06
Posts: 3041
Loc: Illinois
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Tommy5,
I used magnifications up to 362x and studied the surface carefully before I began sketching. I wanted to include all 4 moons and a field star but I lost too much detail so I compromised with a 12mm widefield eyepiece. Graphite pencil works easier on planets than Conte' crayons. The grainy appearance doesn't look right with Jupiter's clouds.
Actually your sketch seems to have more detail and is closer to the eyeball view. The seeing sure was a treat.
Thank you T5.
Frank
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Tommy5
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1391
Loc: Chicagoland
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Wow a sharp jup at 362x would be a treat, yeah graphite is easier for planets,i need more practice, my seb rendition isn't quite right looks cartoonish,sketching makes one a better observor,i should get jup right about the time goes away
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markseibold
sage
Reged: 01/19/08
Posts: 463
Loc: Portland Oregon
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Quote:
Wow a sharp jup at 362x would be a treat, yeah graphite is easier for planets, i need more practice, my seb rendition isn't quite right looks cartoonish, sketching makes one a better observor, i should get jup right about the time goes away
Tommy
I like your end line here “I should get Jupiter right, about the time goes away” – You have made a great statement of heuristic process and I am not sure the others caught it-
With power comes more image, more information, more responsibility to render all those details, but low and behold the ‘elusive seeing conditions and resolution dictated by atmospheric conditions at any moment- On some nights it is impossible to literally see at high magnification’. We are really limited at best to medium magnification on any one given evening as the seeing conditions rarely allow over 200X magnification.
I sat and talked to John Dobson a couple weeks ago where he was staying nearby here in central Oregon with friends. I mentioned to him that I have been doing more intense sketching. He immediately quipped the line that you use here, that sketching will cause the minds eye to look closer and take in more detail and information while observing than those who do not sketch. *I highly recommend the recent docudrama film that was produced on Dobson by Jeffry Fox Jacobs in 2005. Official site with trailer samples >
http://www.telescopepictures.com/
I still get some non-artist friends of mine expressing, "Why would you waste your time drawing when you can just take a picture?"
They will never know what they are missing in this artistic process. As sketchers, we know it very well.
Keep up the good work. I always marvel at anyone’s attempts to sketch Jupiter as its surface rotates so fast, that the artist must think faster than the camera; something to tell your photographer friends that are missing this process.
There is no technological mechanical substitute for a great artist.
-Mark 2008
“Great art is more than in the eye of the beholder; It is in the well practiced mind of the artist”
-Mark 2008
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Tommy5
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1391
Loc: Chicagoland
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Thanks Mark, i am an horrible artist, unable to draw a descent circle but i really like sketching planets, it forces me to notice little things like the festoons and rifts and ovals on jup and albedo features on mars, it is a real challenge to "see" stuff that was in plain sight but i never really noticed before. again thanks for your comments and i will keep on sketching trying for the perfect jup, remember the pursuit of perfection leads to madness or something like that lol.
Edited by Tommy5 (07/31/08 11:32 PM)
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CarlosEH
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 3115
Loc: Pembroke Pines, Broward County...
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Frank,
An excellent observation of Jupiter and three of the Galilean satellites. You have rendered the appearance of Jupiter and it's satellites through your telescope very nicely. Jupiter is not an easy object to render as it presents a wealth of detail. Thank you for sharing it with us all.
Mark- You are correct in that observing and rendering an object forces the eye to study it carefully. This is not to say that imaging does not record lots of detail, but that the eye (if practiced) may detect low-contrast detail in average seeing conditions. I look forward to your future observations.
Carlos
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markseibold
sage
Reged: 01/19/08
Posts: 463
Loc: Portland Oregon
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Quote:
Mark- You are correct in that observing and rendering an object forces the eye to study it carefully. This is not to say that imaging does not record lots of detail, but that the eye (if practiced) may detect low-contrast detail in average seeing conditions. I look forward to your future observations.
Carlos
Thanks, I am not really sure what I said now about seeing but I think was trying to respond to Tommy's desire for higher magnification and that it is not always a sure thing to simply increase magnification to such great extremes. You have prompted me to realize some other perspectives on magnification vs seeing now.
I have noticed that some of the most detailed sketches of Jupiter in journals over the years by professional astronomers, have indicated that their magnification was say, only at 225X ~ 250X or so. I have non-astronomer friends that easily complain in a few seconds that the image is too small and they can see no detail. They will not spend more than maybe 20 seconds at the eyepiece. Of course they have never sketched either. Tommy, do not denigrate your work about not making a perfect circle [remember Jupiter is not a circle (; ] Anything you do to observe and render a sketch-work, whether you think it is good or bad; it is always worthy research to both yourself and others.
I should not forget here that Frank also submitted a fine sketch showing detail around the GRS. Nice work Frank! I wish I had seen these posts of both Tommy and Franks work and discussions before I observed the GRS transiting the planets meridian a few nights ago. I would have paid more attention to it. I had forgotten a lengthy article in S & T a few months ago showing the two GRS Jr companions.
Everyone’s sketch-work and discussion here demands that we [ I ] read the CN Forums more often; thanks to all of you!
Mark
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Special Ed
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 3531
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
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T5 and Frank,
Nice, detailed sketches and observations from you both--there haven't been too many posted this apparition. And it's always nice to see a widefield view including the Galilean moons.
Maybe people think Jupiter is too low this year, but your work demonstrates that if you catch J. at its highest and have good seeing and a practised eye, much detail can reveal itself.
I've only used graphite pencils for Jupiter but I would think that conte' crayons would work best if one kept the scale of the drawing large.
About magnification for Jupiter: I usually observe it at mags between 169x and 250x, but if conditions allow 362x, do it!
Sorry for the late post--I'm trying to get caught up now that my satellite dish is operational again.
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Michael Rosolina
8" f/10 Orange Tube SCT
4.25" f/4.2 Astroscan Reflector
SVP 3.6" f/13.6 CA Reflector
40mm PST f/10
APM Germany HD 15x70 binoculars
Canon 12x36 IS II binoculars
Mark I Eyeball
My CN Gallery
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Tommy5
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1391
Loc: Chicagoland
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thanks micheal i look forward to your sketches and observations
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rodelaet
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/06
Posts: 2655
Loc: 50°56' N - 4°58' E (Belgium)
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Tommy and Frank,
You both did an excellent job on Jupiter!
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Rony
My Astronomy Sketches
My Binocular Sketches
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Tommy5
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1391
Loc: Chicagoland
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Thanks Rony.
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frank5817
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/13/06
Posts: 3041
Loc: Illinois
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Michael, Carlos and Rony,
Thanks. It was one of those planet nights.
Frank
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