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jake47
sage
Reged: 03/03/04
Posts: 459
Loc: North Texas
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Quote:
There are always going to be those that would never climb the mountain, and I'd rather they see the view than not. But those who choose to drive to the top shouldn't look poorly upon the hikers as antiques or Luddites.
There's no analogy that can't be strained just a little further, so we also have those who are going to paint the view from the top. They want to get to the view and study it and draw it and contemplate how the mountains were formed. They shouldn't look on the hikers as luddites nor should the hikers look on the painters as undeserving of the view just because they found another way to get there.
There are several references to go-to'ers jumping from object to object. I have seen that at some parties, but most of those I view with get the object and then view for long periods. I do because I'm sketching and taking notes. (The most important part of the mount is the tracking. By the time you pay for good tracking anymore, go-to is just a piece of programming.) In the same vein, I have noticed star-hoppers spend almost an hour to find an object, yell "bagged it", and start looking for another. That's sounds like fun too. Threre are a lot of stars up there and more than one way to enjoy them.
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Jim in Texas
NS11GPS (Celeste)
C6S-GT (Celia)
SV 85S (Stella)
SV66 (Red)
Pentax Binoculars (the Twins)
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pennyandchris
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 505
Loc: Horsham, England
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I've tried starhopping for a couple of years, and I'm simply not that good at it. However, I don't need go-to for the big planets (don't even need a driven mount for visual), BUT, with the typical skies in my locale, I've finally acquired an LXD 75 mount to try and find some of those dimmer DSOs.
I realise it's only a tool (and I'm sure I'll soon fnd its problems/limitations), but for someone like me who has not had the time/seeing to learn the sky, I'm hoping it will at least assist me.
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Orion UK OMC140 Mak Cass
TeleVue Ranger
Coronado Ha and CaK PSTs
Meade LXD75 mount
Ambermile alt-az mount on wooden surveyors tripod
Manfrotto 074 photo tripod with 501 head
+ various binocs
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Muffin Research
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/28/07
Posts: 805
Loc: Belgium
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Indeed living in Light polluted areas, a go-to can be fun, but i'm with Newonblock here, it's very rewarding to find stuff yourself. And it never fails your really, I've had Go-to owners standing just a few feet away, swearing at their machines and the software, while I was starhopping away, It's nice a map, a scope and the skies.
They don't drop boyscouts in the woods with a GPS now do they? that would talk away a lot of the fun (of getting lost :-)
When I decided to buy a scope, wich is a year ago now, I went out looking for something solid, with no bells & whistles compared to modern day scopes, I was tempted by go-to for a bit, but i'm very happy I did not go for it.
However I'm not saying I will never own a go-to in my life.
it's a very handy device.
but it's not how I wanted to discover the skies.
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Quelle Horreur!
Requime pour un Twister.
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spaceydee
Postmaster
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 15346
Loc: Where the Kittens Are
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Hey, I've got both. I would hate to be at a star party, run low on battery power and have nothing to do! You will almost always find me star hopping.
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Dee
space-scientist
student violinist
Nexstar8i,SV80S,80/9D,FC100,94 Brandon,TMB92SS,GM8
8" f/7 Discovery,12.5" Portaball, PST
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Muffin Research
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/28/07
Posts: 805
Loc: Belgium
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Ah yes, having both is ideal,
Also when I do a stargazing session, I take 15 to 20 minutes minimum observing one particular object.
I suppose if I had a go-to I would be dialing in objects all night and just take a quick peek, now I really go for a few things a night.
Where Go-to shines, as is mentioned before is indeed getting non telescope people interested, to quickly demonstrate them the wonders of space.
Ideal would be that the whole world would do something about light pollution, looking up at the sky at a really Dark location is just amazing, I think people would look up more.
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Quelle Horreur!
Requime pour un Twister.
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NJScope
super member
Reged: 03/08/04
Posts: 170
Loc: NJ
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Eric:
Overall I totally agree with your thoughts about GOTO telescopes. Nonetheless, as David Knisely and others so aptly point out, the uninitiated newbie is better served to learn the skies manually before depending upon computers. For those of us amateurs who spend most of our time conducting research, GOTO scopes are invaluable in locating extremely faint objects that can only be visualized with sensitive cameras. These may be moving targets such as asteroids or fixed objects like variable stars. Data collection time is precious so that time spent star-hopping translates into valuable points missed along a light curve.
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Kevin
UnderOak Observatory
Nexstar 8 GPS SCT
Vixen VC200L/Losmandy G-11 Gemini
C102HD/Losmandy GM-8
Televue 76/SolarMax 40
Televue NP101
ST-402ME/Nikon D70 DSLR
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john D
All you have to do is ask!!
Reged: 08/05/07
Posts: 4963
Loc: Midlothian, VA
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nice article!im going to get a goto mount soon! 
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Meade ETX-125
Meade LXD55 mount
Philips SPC900NC webcam
Seymour Solar filter
Backyard Observatory
 -Midlothian VA
--Land Of The Free Because Of The Brave--
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Muffin Research
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/28/07
Posts: 805
Loc: Belgium
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Well yes, for those of you using Scopes as data collection devices or photography, a goto would be the thing to use, but I don't think the bulk of the consumer market is really intented for professionals, Goto systems under 2000$ are really more for the hobbyist, amateur, enthousiast.
As most astrophotographers end up buying a mount more expensive then their scopes. and most research scientists have acces to a proper telescope in a real observatory.
I personally just don't want software to mingle with every stage of my life, everything has to go quicker and have a computer do it for you, so you don't loose time, but there seems to be less time to enjoy things.
Analogy to recordingstudios: in the old days you were mixing behind your gear, the mixingtable, outboardeffects, tape. Nowadays you spend most of your time behind a computer screen & then you go home... great innit?
where the other way is more timeconsuming, i've actually been busy that day, living & experiencing something, doin something, body motion, turning levers, knobs & faders... vs. staring at a screen and clicking the mouse button... hmm
yes sorry this is another discussion, but it's along the line. doin it yourself vs. letting a computer do it for you.
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Quelle Horreur!
Requime pour un Twister.
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jake47
sage
Reged: 03/03/04
Posts: 459
Loc: North Texas
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Quote:
I personally just don't want software to mingle with every stage of my life, everything has to go quicker and have a computer do it for you, so you don't loose time, but there seems to be less time to enjoy things.
yes sorry this is another discussion, but it's along the line. doin it yourself vs. letting a computer do it for you.
I get your point, but that analogy won't hold for very long. When star hoppers argue that they like doing it the old fashioned way, they are using scopes and charts and materials that are new technology wise. Notice that this discussion is taking place only by virtue of computers and modern technology. We could be mailing letters. And would those letters be handwritten or typed, ball point pen or quill? There are those that would argue that even recording studios from thrity years ago were abominations that altered the true live music. Bicycles were the cutting edge technology of their day.
I don't disagree that there are quiet pleasures and personal satisfaction to be derived from managing to hunt down a faint bit of star stuff with only a few charts and references. Very satisfying. So is letting the scope find the object for you to study.
Better to just say I like star searching or I like star staring or I like both.
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Jim in Texas
NS11GPS (Celeste)
C6S-GT (Celia)
SV 85S (Stella)
SV66 (Red)
Pentax Binoculars (the Twins)
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David L
super member
Reged: 11/12/07
Posts: 140
Loc: Lee County Iowa
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I would like to have programmed a list of objects that can be viewed that night so I won't overlook really interesting objects. I have this tendency to just look at a few chestnuts. Even a push-to system that would tell me by voice when I am getting close and when I am on the object would be about as good as actual goto. Dave
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8.5 X 44 Swift Audubon binoculars
100 mm semi-apo triplet PVC spotting scope
6 inch F8 dobsonian
10 inch F4.5 dobsonian
2 2-cylinder equatorial platforms, 2-roller direct drive
22X100 Oberwerk binoculars (just received)
6" F6.5 Antares refractor
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Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3720
Loc: Alabama, USA
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I feel PUSH and GOTO are the way to go, even though I have been star hopping my way around the sky for over 20 years. Light pollution and the extreme faintness of many of the objects I purse make digital setting circles very helpful. I don't have the time anymore to do the star hopping I used to, and it's nice to spend more time actually looking at objects instead of hunting for them. Even with DSC's, I still have to hunt for objects, especially those 5 arc-second planetary nebulae hiding in dense Milky Way star fields during nights of poor seeing. Sometimes the pointing accuracy is less than perfect too, but the DSC's at least get me very close to the object. There's room for both approaches, and at a dark site I can zero in on objects with a Telrad and a star atlas. It's very hard to do that from my house where skies are badly light polluted and hazy from at times severe air pollution. For me, digital setting circles are the best of both worlds.
Taras
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10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
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