BluewaterObserva
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
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I thought is was supposed to be fired up full force this past weekend, but I have not heard any news from it.
At least it must not of created a black hole that ate the earth right? 
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Jarad
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3850
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I'm sure the black hole starts out very small. It will take it a few weeks at least to grow large enough to finish the earth up in one big gulp.
Jarad
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Pess
(Title)
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1910
Loc: Toledo, Ohio
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If it does eat the earth up I guess Dr. Hawking will be very *BLEEP*.
That would mean black holes don't evaporate and there is no such thing as Hawking Radiation.
I am counting on Hawking radiation to supply all kinds of exotic matter for my FTL spaceship & radio designs.
Pesse (Everything from tachyons to Negative matter.) Mist
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12" RCX400
WILLIAM OPTICS 110mm APO ZENITH STAR refractor
Custom Wyorock focuser for refractor
Douglas Schwan DC
Befuddled observer, bewildered student, bemused teacher.
Purveyor of cognitive dissonance.
Todays Quote: "Answers are worthless unless the proper question has been asked."
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jeffchap
sage
Reged: 04/17/05
Posts: 222
Loc: Edmond, OK
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Quote:
I have not heard any news from it.
That, in itself, could be very ominous news.
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Jeff Chappell
Orion XT10
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Nick Lloyd
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 1624
Loc: cincinnati
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Maybe it is a black hole of press releases?
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"The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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Jarad
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3850
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Well, no information can get out of black holes, so that goes without saying.... 
Jarad
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BluewaterObserva
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
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I guess I had misunderstood...
It seems the 1st month is all sync calibrations.
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/19970/1066/
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Mike Casey
Postmaster
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 5910
Loc: Pasadena CA
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LHC synchronization test successful.
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Mike (tVA)
All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand.
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BluewaterObserva
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
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Thanks for the additional link....
I'm not to into physics, astrophsyics, or cosmology all to much, but the giant collider as captured my attention and imagination big time these days.
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iblis
admirer of the sky
Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 2243
Loc: Germany
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by means of that gigantic device we may
“erkennen, was die Welt im innersten zusammenhält”
(Goethe, „Faust“)
how to translate it?
I will try….
“we will discover wath held together the world in the innermost”
that’s not correct I assume,
who can do better?
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Grüße von Iblis
The Universe is not only queerer than we imagine; it is queerer than we CAN imagine.
(Haldane)
and here I observe that universe
The sky is my heaven !**********  ********
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starbux
sage
Reged: 02/08/06
Posts: 216
Loc: Silicon Valley, CA
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Start-up date for LHC announced
Spoiler alert for those who don't want to read the article.............
.............................
.............................
It's September 10!
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LesB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/20/04
Posts: 1687
Loc: Z-Hills, FL
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How much energy expended for how much knowledge? Science is important but science is not exempt from the law of diminishing returns.
What knowledge to be gain here will materially improve our lives? What knowledge gained here will simply satisfy our need for the WOW factor?
Is it possible for someone to live a life not caring about how the universe came into existence but nevertheless marvel that the universe simply exist?
List the questions we are seeking to answer with the LHC and ask; "Will my life be changed by what we learn with the LHC?"
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"The genius of humanity is to establish an identity which lies at an ever-increasing distance from our organic nature." Ray Tallis
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Jarad
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3850
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
List the questions we are seeking to answer with the LHC and ask; "Will my life be changed by what we learn with the LHC?"
It's pretty hard to predict the answer to that question. If you look at the discoveries over the last century or so, and ask which ones have the biggest impact on your life, I doubt they are ones that would have been predicted to be a big deal before they happened. Transistors are an obvious one (who would have guessed that some guys playing around with sand and salt would have discovered the basis for every computer we now have?). Relativity, which lead to nuclear power and weapons.
Will the LHC affect our lives? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe we will discover something that lets us figure out what Dark Energy is, and how to tap it for a pollution-free source of energy. Maybe we will discover something about the properties of space itself in the presence of extreme conditions that allows us to travel near light speed. Maybe we will spend a lot of money and discover that we still don't have enough energy to detect any of the things we expected, and will learn nothing (except that our predictions of what particles we should see were all wrong).
We won't know until we try.
Jarad
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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 10441
Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
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If you could predict what you would learn in advance, it wouldn't be new knowledge, would it?
You can't apply the cost/benefit analysis of the bean counters to exploration and discovery, and expect meaningful results. Scientific progress is at its basis a creative endeavor, and like any creative endeavor it is inefficient, wasteful, unreliable, risky, expensive, and sometimes downright ugly.
It's also the best long-term investment we can possibly make.
Where I see the law of diminishing returns most clearly in operation is going in the other direction. When one withdraws from curiosity, and a culture turns its back on knowledge for its own sake, its returns will diminish to the point where that culture will inevitably become irrelevant to the progress of civilization, and will find itself sooner or later replaced.
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"S.O.E." (Sauron's Other Eye) 16" Royce conical mirror: A permanent work in progress.
10" Homebuilt dob, old Coulter mirror
Next Project: The "Eye of Sauron" Observatory!
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gazerjim
Postmaster
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 7704
Loc: About where I thought I was......
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Quote:
; "Will my life be changed by what we learn with the LHC?"
Frankly, yes; if not your life then the lives of your children and grandchildren. Sometimes tugging on the tiniest of loose strings leads to a dramatic unraveling of reality as we know it.
One such example is the Josephson Junction. Josephson's academic superiors first regarded his predictions about quantum tunneling to be absurd. They were borne out by experiment and their implications for 'nuts and bolts' technology have been tremendous.
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Jim Fisher
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Henry J. Tillman
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iblis
admirer of the sky
Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 2243
Loc: Germany
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Quote:
by means of that gigantic device we may
“erkennen, was die Welt im innersten zusammenhält”
(Goethe, „Faust“)
how to translate it?
I will try….
“we will discover wath held together the world in the innermost”
that’s not correct I assume,
who can do better?
btw,
my friend ghosty (another forum) suggest the following translation
"Realize what keeps the world together in the innermost"
what do you mean
(or are there only such non poetic guys  )
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Grüße von Iblis
The Universe is not only queerer than we imagine; it is queerer than we CAN imagine.
(Haldane)
and here I observe that universe
The sky is my heaven !********** ********
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gazerjim
Postmaster
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 7704
Loc: About where I thought I was......
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Paging Lady Astronomer: 
Seems like Lady A's Deutsche sprache is just one of her many academic talents.  Perhaps she could translate for us?
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Jim Fisher
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Henry J. Tillman
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4262
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Quote:
How much energy expended for how much knowledge? Science is important but science is not exempt from the law of diminishing returns.
Yes, pure science is. The LHC isn't, to my knowledge, a commercial enterprise.
Quote:
What knowledge to be gain here will materially improve our lives? What knowledge gained here will simply satisfy our need for the WOW factor?
We'll find out after we gain the knowledge. Materially improving our lives is not necessarily the alpha and omega of all scientific research.
Quote:
Is it possible for someone to live a life not caring about how the universe came into existence but nevertheless marvel that the universe simply exist?
Absolutely! The world is full of people like that. But then, there are others for whom marvelling isn't enough.
Quote:
List the questions we are seeking to answer with the LHC and ask; "Will my life be changed by what we learn with the LHC?"
That depends on what it takes to change your life. Would finding bacterial life on Mars change your life? It would mine; someone else wouldn't care at all.
And, listing the questions you want answered is only the very beginning. The real prize is all the other questions that arise from those answers: finding out what's the next question to ask!
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InkDark
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 1461
Loc: Montreal, Canada
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It's all about our sense of discovery. If it wasn't, we would all still be somewhere in Africa wondering what happens if you march off the edge of the flat Earth...
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Jimmy
"Rarely Have So Many Understood So Little About So Much" - Palle Yourgrau
"...since that time, I have not complained about the weather one single time. I’m glad there is weather." – Alan Bean, Apollo 12
What do you mean by “Saving the Earth”? The Earth is not in danger! Don’t worry about the planet it will be here long after we are extinct...
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LadyAstronomer
Bookworm
Reged: 11/15/07
Posts: 2951
Loc: Library of Congress
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Quote:
Paging Lady Astronomer:
Seems like Lady A's Deutsche sprache is just one of her many academic talents. Perhaps she could translate for us?
Ok, I'll give it a shot, but I think Ilbis did a GREAT job!
"erkennen, was die Welt im innersten zusammenhält" litterally (word-for-word) means
"recognize, what the world in internal togetherholds"
but in this sense "erkennen" can also mean "discover" or "realize"
So... I would say something like:
"We will discover what holds the innermost world together."
Ilbis,
Kratzer Silbi hinter den Ohren für mich, bitte!
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"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -- Sir Isaac Newton
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