George Methvin
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/30/06
Loc: Central Texas
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China Optics why all the fuss?
#2576241 - 08/12/08 10:45 AM
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Just a simple question. I have noted that every time a question is ask from someone about China made ED refractor a huge debate gets started and some people start nit picking them apart..why  I see so many time in these forums someone will ask a simple question like they are thinking about buying a Ed refractor that is made in China can anyone that owns one give them some feed back. The next thing you know it a heated debate about everything in the world expect what to person was asking in the frist place. Can't we all just get along American optics, China optics North South  I tell you it seems people will argue about anything and every thing. Now where did I put that bottle of Jack Daniels.. oh there it is by my scope. 
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: George Methvin]
#2576247 - 08/12/08 10:48 AM
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For many folks, gear is about subtle differences.
When people ask about the differences, that's what they get.
It all depends on what your expectations are I guess.
Edited by Tom Trusock (08/12/08 11:30 AM)
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George Methvin
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/30/06
Loc: Central Texas
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: Tom Trusock]
#2576335 - 08/12/08 11:35 AM
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When people ask about the difference in scope and thats what they get thats fine. It seem to often sides will form and lines are drawn and the person that ask the queston is all but forgotten. It seem the fight alway boils down the which is better the brand name optics or off brand optics which are made in China. It seem some folks are always trying
to compare one brand scope with another with each side defending there views or scopes. If folks don't beleave me just go back and read the forums here over the last few months. How funny.
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LLEEGE
True Blue
Reged: 03/03/05
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: George Methvin]
#2576354 - 08/12/08 11:46 AM
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The origin of optics does have a polarizing effect to many people. Especially when it involves Chinese sourced optics. Back when Japan sourced optics were becoming available, they were highly criticized. Now they are amongst the best. It is very possible that the Chinese will attain that status. Either way, the lower cost makes it possible for more of us to enjoy the hobby.
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GeorgeDuke
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/24/03
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: George Methvin]
#2576390 - 08/12/08 12:05 PM
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I agree with what you are saying George.
First let me say that you will never find a more helpful and genuinely nice group of people than those here on CN and in Astronomy in general.
However, there is an unintended disrespect for those of us that have limited means for purchasing equipment.
Limited knowledge is no problem, everyone is ready and willing to help.
But if a newbie or not so newbie posts that they have finally got the misses to agree that they can spend a maximum of $500 for a complete scope setup, watch out!
He is told that you CAN'T get anything for $500 and you need to spend at LEAST $1000 and should look at Tak or TEC or TV or the like for anything worthwhile.
And as you said George, the guy asking the original question has been shoved aside while the posters argue over who is right and what is the best. Actually, none of them are right and none of the stuff they are touting are right for that person asking the original question!
The correct answer to the original inquiry would be something like, go to Orion and look at the Celestron NexStar complete GOTO systems for under $500! I started out with the Tasco closeout of the NS80GT for $200 and it was great. Then I got their NS4GT Mak for about $300. I loved both of them and they worked perfectly for me and had everything a poor schlub like me could hope for.
I sold them of course and started trading up and now I have reached a stellar point for me! Or maybe, a StellarVue point with the SV102ED2, something I never thought I could afford. I think it is wonderful as do most all of the other SV102ED owners. But there are those who will try to belittle what we have by criticising SV and what they stand for. They stand for us little guys!
Edited by GeorgeDuke (08/12/08 12:16 PM)
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spaceydee
Postmaster
Reged: 04/16/04
Loc: Where the Kittens Are
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: GeorgeDuke]
#2576449 - 08/12/08 12:38 PM
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You have to be careful here because I think in most if not many cases people are just trying to help someone get what they think is the best for the amount of money someone will spend. Also, I think in general people do want to help someone out on a limited budget especially when they are aware that this is the case.
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wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: GeorgeDuke]
#2576459 - 08/12/08 12:43 PM
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I use Chinese telescopes, Chinese eyepieces, Chinese finderscopes, and Chinese mounts. I'm convinced of the fact that they offer the "best bang for the buck" these days. The overall quality seems to be getting better and better all the time.
Sure, I'd love to have a big Astro-Physics refractor on a Paramount ME with a set of Naglers, but there's no way I'd ever be able to afford them. Sure, I know what I got ain't perfect, but it's good enough for me. I credit the Chinese for making this hobby almost affordable.
And the new R/C helicopter I just got? Guess where that was made?
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George Methvin
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/30/06
Loc: Central Texas
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: spaceydee]
#2576466 - 08/12/08 12:46 PM
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I agree Dee most people here are great and always helpful. In general people do want to help.
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LLEEGE
True Blue
Reged: 03/03/05
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: wrather1]
#2576469 - 08/12/08 12:48 PM
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And the new R/C helicopter I just got? Guess where that was made?
You've got to be careful using the term RC. 
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Greg Morrison
sage
Reged: 11/16/04
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: Tom Trusock]
#2576478 - 08/12/08 12:54 PM
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For many folks, gear is about subtle differences.
These differences tend to get blown out of proportion in these types of discussions IMO. On a night of excellent seeing on a particular object a better quality apochromat will separate itself from a less expensive chinese made scope. Some would characterize this as a big difference whereas others would be amazed at how close in performance they really are. I'm on my 5th Takahashi refractor and I find this latest generation of refractors made in China to be very impressive. Considering that Synta (as an example) has been doing this for 10 years and has very modern manufacturing facilities (Zygo Interferometers etc) I'm not surprised at the level of quality they've achieved. Despite the many posts here warning about the variability in quality of these telescopes, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the quality is pretty uniform from sample to sample lately. There are hundreds of user reports and I hear of very few lemons or poor performers these days. The fact that alot of these scopes are in the hands of experienced users gives these informal reviews alot of weight as well.
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JakeJ
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/31/04
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: LLEEGE]
#2576507 - 08/12/08 01:07 PM
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Another thing to keep in mind is that some folks simply refuse to buy chinese made products becuase of China's multiple human rights violations, communist status, the environmental impact of unregulated Chinese factories (see the current smog over the Olympic stadium), the loss of jobs to China, and the imbalance of trade with the USA.
Please note that none of these factors have anything to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of chinese optics. I suspect that some of the attitudes exhibited on this forum has a bit to do with the above mentioned circumstances as much as anything.
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Patricko
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/30/07
Loc: USA
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: JakeJ]
#2576515 - 08/12/08 01:11 PM
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Very true!
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SimonWinchester
member
Reged: 02/11/05
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: Greg Morrison]
#2576517 - 08/12/08 01:11 PM
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My EON 120 arrived about two hours ago, and, I must say, mechanically, it is a stunner. Perfect in every respect that I can see. And the focuser and micro-focuser are both as smooth as glass. If the optics perform as well as the OTA looks, I'm in for a real treat.
I am familiar with Tele Vue mechanics, and I would rate the EON's mechanics as equal to Tele Vue in quality. Yes, the EON's mechanics are that good.
The EON's case, although cosmetically flawless, is a little bit on the flimsy-cheapy side, but it should be quite serviceable, nonetheless. Not Tele Vue quality, but I didn't pay a Tele Vue price, either.
Man-oh-man, I was surprised at how BIG a 120mm lens looks!
Simon
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Lucita
member
Reged: 11/05/06
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: SimonWinchester]
#2576534 - 08/12/08 01:23 PM
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I am familiar with Tele Vue mechanics, and I would rate the EON's mechanics as equal to Tele Vue in quality. Yes, the EON's mechanics are that good.
OP - here is the type of statement that starts all the fuss.
Simon - glad you like your scope. However, anyone can see the difference between it and a Televue. Sorry.
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: Greg Morrison]
#2576539 - 08/12/08 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
For many folks, gear is about subtle differences.
These differences tend to get blown out of proportion in these types of discussions IMO. On a night of excellent seeing on a particular object a better quality apochromat will separate itself from a less expensive chinese made scope. Some would characterize this as a big difference whereas others would be amazed at how close in performance they really are. I'm on my 5th Takahashi refractor and I find this latest generation of refractors made in China to be very impressive. Considering that Synta (as an example) has been doing this for 10 years and has very modern manufacturing facilities (Zygo Interferometers etc) I'm not surprised at the level of quality they've achieved. Despite the many posts here warning about the variability in quality of these telescopes, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the quality is pretty uniform from sample to sample lately. There are hundreds of user reports and I hear of very few lemons or poor performers these days. The fact that alot of these scopes are in the hands of experienced users gives these informal reviews alot of weight as well.
That's true. It's also true you can pay an additional 50% or more for a "mere" 5-10% increase in performance. Further, some don't care about the difference in performance, and some won't even notice it. OTOH, some do.
I don't think anyone has ever downplayed the VALUE of the inexpensive gear (at least from what I've seen), but when the topic comes up, I also think it's important for everyone to understand the actual differences in order to make an informed purchase.
What is important for you? That is the question. You're the only one that can answer it.
You guys who are just getting started now have no idea how good you have it today. I paid like 3x as much for the gear I started off with and it wasn't even half as good as what's available today. And yet, I had a TON fun.
Just get out there and enjoy it.
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Wehkoja
sage
Reged: 05/06/07
Loc: Finland
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: JakeJ]
#2576554 - 08/12/08 01:37 PM
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You don´t know where your china refractor is made and who has made it! TeleVue owners know Al and David Nagler, Stellarvue owners know Vic Maris! TMB owners knew and will remember Tom Back!!! William optics owners know William Yang! We know who´s behind the company or designing the APO´s, ED´s, Achro´s etc etc...
And it does give little more feeling of value as a Refractor owner! i didn´t knew where Synta was made or by whom 
when will we get 100 degree eyepiece from China? or Super Apo?
just my toughts
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SimonWinchester
member
Reged: 02/11/05
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: Lucita]
#2576585 - 08/12/08 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I am familiar with Tele Vue mechanics, and I would rate the EON's mechanics as equal to Tele Vue in quality. Yes, the EON's mechanics are that good.
OP - here is the type of statement that starts all the fuss.
Simon - glad you like your scope. However, anyone can see the difference between it and a Televue. Sorry.
I disagree 100%, and I'm no fool. The EON's mechanics are excellent -- and, yes, I've owned a Tele Vue apo, a TV-102 to be specific. I cannot yet vouch for the EON's optics, but I can certainly vouch for the mechanics, and no one should be misled by statements like "anyone can see the difference between it and a Tele Vue."
Simon
Edited by SimonWinchester (08/12/08 01:56 PM)
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Wehkoja
sage
Reged: 05/06/07
Loc: Finland
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: SimonWinchester]
#2576593 - 08/12/08 01:52 PM
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Simon: Why did you sell your TV-102?
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SimonWinchester
member
Reged: 02/11/05
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: Wehkoja]
#2576596 - 08/12/08 01:54 PM
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Simon: Why did you sell your TV-102?
I owned it 3-4 years ago, and I sold it to fund a bigger-aperture scope.
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Shalamar
member
Reged: 07/21/08
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Re: China Optics why all the fuss?
[Re: SimonWinchester]
#2576613 - 08/12/08 02:01 PM
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Hmm..
How can one tell? Then again, I have a Astro-Tech 80ED. Considering the price, its probably Chinese Made. I admit, Its a fine Telescope, and I have no issues with it.
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