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Equipment Discussions >> Observatories

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stars_in_my_eyes
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 03/24/08

Sizing An Observatory
#2580010 - 08/13/08 11:02 PM

I have a building 90" x 96" available that might be used for an observatory.

What size of telescopes could one use in it?

I have a Celestron C11, Celestron CR6 and a Orion 12 dob on the way...will they fit and still be useful?

Thanks

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1965healey
The Snarkster

Reged: 06/23/07

Loc: San Antonio, TX

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: stars_in_my_eyes]
#2580087 - 08/13/08 11:48 PM

Can you post a picture of the building?

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andyschlei
professor emeritus

Reged: 03/05/06

Loc: Los Angeles, CA

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[Re: 1965healey]
#2582422 - 08/15/08 12:55 AM

I have a 9' (108") x 7' (84") observatory that fits a C-11 on a CGE mount very nicely. The long dimension is oriented NE to SW. My computer fits nicely in the corner.

Fits nicely, but is tight.

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stars_in_my_eyes
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 03/24/08

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: 1965healey]
#2583136 - 08/15/08 12:53 PM

Quote:

Can you post a picture of the building?

No...it is broken down in a bundle in another state.

The size of the building is 96" by 90" by 96"high.

So what size of telescope (dobsonian, refractor and Smith Cassigan) would this building hold if I would reuse the building as an rolloff observatory?

Thanks

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1965healey
The Snarkster

Reged: 06/23/07

Loc: San Antonio, TX

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: stars_in_my_eyes]
#2583301 - 08/15/08 02:21 PM

Wood, plastic, metal? Doors? Windows? Type of roof? Mounts are a pier, tripod, GEM, wedge? Slab,deck, remote site, home?

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stars_in_my_eyes
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 03/24/08

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: 1965healey]
#2584042 - 08/15/08 09:45 PM

Quote:

Wood, plastic, metal? Doors? Windows? Type of roof? Mounts are a pier, tripod, GEM, wedge? Slab,deck, remote site, home?

Wood sides, aluminum roof.

Everything else is up for grabs as the design comes together.

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1965healey
The Snarkster

Reged: 06/23/07

Loc: San Antonio, TX

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: stars_in_my_eyes]
#2584117 - 08/15/08 10:38 PM

You may be a bit undersized for ALL of the scopes to fit and be usable, you're talking about a 7'X7' space. The walls will be twice the height you need for a dob. 36" is about the height you'd need for that scope. Wall height is fine for the SCT even if you put it on a wedge/pier combination (you didn't say anything about the mount for the SCT). If you put the SCT on a pier/GEM it'll need to have the pier set back from two of the adjacent walls about 40" to leave room to get around it w/ the counterweights and shaft. The OTA is 24" and weighs about 28#'s. That won't leave much room for the CR-6. The OTA on the CR-6 is about 52" and it weighs about 30#'s. Not the best scope to piggy-back on the SCT. You'd need roughly center it in the space to get the clearance you need. Parking it to get the roof closed will turn it into a real head banger in a tight space if you leave it mounted on the pier/tripod. A tripod would eat up alot more space on the ground as well. I see lots of tripping in the dark with a tripod in that small a space, two tripods would be an obstacle course. A couple of piers would be better. Very tight quarters anyway. Some other folks need to chime in here if they've managed to squeeze all that gear into 50 square feet and use it.

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Tom Clark
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: North of Deming, NM

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: stars_in_my_eyes]
#2584548 - 08/16/08 06:57 AM Attachment (53 downloads)

My dome is 24' in diameter and 19 ' high. It costs just under $8,000 to build in 2002. It houses a 42" go-to Dob. If building it over again, the base would be square so there would be extra room in the corners for chairs and equipment.

The dome easily holds 30+, but normal observing is with 6-8 friends, a far more comfortable number. There is a slide show of the dome and scope construction here. Dome/scope construction

The photo shows the scope and a couple of friends looking out the slot.

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csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: 1965healey]
#2584733 - 08/16/08 10:04 AM

Quote:

You may be a bit undersized for ALL of the scopes to fit and be usable, you're talking about a 7'X7' space.

I agree with Karen. My roll-off is 10'X10' with a 16" Dob in it along with an 80mm on tripod. It's a very tight fit; the 80mm sits in a corner with tripod folded up a little in order to have the room to observe with the Dob. When the Dob is horizontal, it lacks about 3" of reaching the walls.

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stars_in_my_eyes
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 03/24/08

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: 1965healey]
#2584895 - 08/16/08 11:38 AM

Quote:

You may be a bit undersized for ALL of the scopes to fit and be usable, you're talking about a 7'X7' space. The walls will be twice the height you need for a dob. 36" is about the height you'd need for that scope. Wall height is fine for the SCT even if you put it on a wedge/pier combination (you didn't say anything about the mount for the SCT). If you put the SCT on a pier/GEM it'll need to have the pier set back from two of the adjacent walls about 40" to leave room to get around it w/ the counterweights and shaft. The OTA is 24" and weighs about 28#'s. That won't leave much room for the CR-6. The OTA on the CR-6 is about 52" and it weighs about 30#'s. Not the best scope to piggy-back on the SCT. You'd need roughly center it in the space to get the clearance you need. Parking it to get the roof closed will turn it into a real head banger in a tight space if you leave it mounted on the pier/tripod. A tripod would eat up alot more space on the ground as well. I see lots of tripping in the dark with a tripod in that small a space, two tripods would be an obstacle course. A couple of piers would be better. Very tight quarters anyway. Some other folks need to chime in here if they've managed to squeeze all that gear into 50 square feet and use it.

Thanks for the comments...I am suspecting that this is the case.

One tends to buy LARGER scopes in the future...therefore I think one needs to build an observatory for future growth.

The 8'x8' size that I am considering is currently being driven by an aluminum roof that I have available (one of a kind and perfect for the job) and the need to be able to relocate this observatory in the future...the bigger they are the harder they are to move.

Are there any links to discussions as to how to determine what working space one needs in an observatory? I would think that a 6" refractor, 12" dob and 11" SCT would be common sizes for observatory based scopes.

Thanks

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1965healey
The Snarkster

Reged: 06/23/07

Loc: San Antonio, TX

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: stars_in_my_eyes]
#2585052 - 08/16/08 12:54 PM

Size is determined somewhat by what type of "observing" you'll be doing. Visual observing means you need to be able to comfortably and safely move around the scope you're using so that you can use the EP in a variety of positions. At some point in time most visual observers want a chair to sit on so consider that as well. Most of the common observing chairs have a "footprint" that's about a foot wide by 3 feet deep. For a pier mounted 11" SCT you'll need a space about 30 square feet. For visual use with a 6" refractor you'll need more space, at least double the square footage and that would pretty much exclude any other scope in the space on a full time basis. You could mount a GEM on a height adjustable pier like the PierTech and swap out the OTA's but that makes for alot of work and some alignment issues everytime you change it out. I don't know of anyone who has a 6" refractor piggybacked on an 11" SCT. It would be an unwieldy beast and take some serious balancing and counterweights. You'd probably need a Paramount GEM and that is NOT CHEAP. Between a pier and a mount capable of handling that you're talking many thousands of dollars. Each one of the scopes you have would be happy all by itself in your 7X7, the dob would need much lower walls. Any 2 of them presents some serious crowding and logistics problems, all 3 is impossible IMHO. I'm thinking a 12X18 minimum for visual work (slightly smaller for AP and remote control) with everything but the north wall able to fold down to 3' accomodate the dob. The dob would need to have a home closest to the south wall to allow it to get the best views when pointed north. The other two scopes mounted on piers at least five feet in front of the north (18') wall and four feet in from the E/W (12') walls. Your 7X7 shed would make a nice warm room. It's probably possible to build a roll off that size that you could disassemble and move at a later date by building the walls and roof in sections and bolting them together. That's a job for a professional IMHO and I'd suggest Scott Horstman at BYO as the guy to run it by for feasability and costs. It would be a cool project and proof that "you CAN take it with you".

My 2 cents.

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Dan G
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 06/27/06

Loc: Minisink, NY, USA

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: 1965healey]
#2585086 - 08/16/08 01:11 PM

Karen's comments are very sound. I had a fork mounted C11 in an 8x8. It was just big enough for 2 to move around and use visually. A wedge would have really scrunched the space.

My current 8x8 has a side room for storage and my AP gear. I had a 5" f7 refractor and it was uncomfortable to use visually but fine for AP. A 6" would be far too cramped.

I agree a 12x18 is probably the smallest you should consider. Another idea I am toying with is multiple smaller observatories. I like the 8x8s as I can easily build them and move the roof by hand. Perhaps you could get the building you mentioned and set up the 11" - cut the walls down to 6 or 6.5'. Then add another building for the other scopes.

Dan in NY

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GrampianStars
member

Reged: 07/15/04

Loc: Grampians, Australia

Re: Sizing An Observatory new

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[Re: stars_in_my_eyes]
#2587883 - 08/18/08 06:48 AM

G'day Y'all

*BLEEP* tight IMO My obs is 10' x 11' (110 sq ft) for the 12" SCT

Your 7.5' x 8' (60 sq ft) will be a tight fit

Good for remote though

Quote:

I have a building 90" x 96" available that might be used for an observatory. What size of telescopes could one use in it?
I have a Celestron C11, Celestron CR6 and a Orion 12 dob on the way...will they fit and still be useful? Thanks

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cpsTN
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 04/26/07

Loc: Rutherford Co, TN

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[Re: stars_in_my_eyes]
#2611599 - 08/29/08 11:03 AM

Carol (moderator), if I remember correctly, says see uses a 16" f/4.5 dob inside a 10x10 and says she still has room.

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csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

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[Re: cpsTN]
#2611669 - 08/29/08 11:47 AM Attachment (43 downloads)

Quote:

Carol (moderator), if I remember correctly, says see uses a 16" f/4.5 dob inside a 10x10 and says she still has room.

You are correct! Last Monday night, I had company, and three of us, using the 16" was comfortable.

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csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

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[Re: csa/montana]
#2611671 - 08/29/08 11:48 AM Attachment (45 downloads)

another:

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BluewaterObserva
Postmaster

Reged: 05/18/04

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[Re: Tom Clark]
#2621786 - 09/03/08 04:14 PM

Quote:

My dome is 24' in diameter and 19 ' high. It costs just under $8,000 to build in 2002. It houses a 42" go-to Dob. If building it over again, the base would be square so there would be extra room in the corners for chairs and equipment.

The dome easily holds 30+, but normal observing is with 6-8 friends, a far more comfortable number. There is a slide show of the dome and scope construction here. Dome/scope construction

The photo shows the scope and a couple of friends looking out the slot.

Cool, you don't see many dobs under domes...
42", wow....

Sure dwarfs my 30", but I'll be running an EQ mount.

So what is your lowest horizon you can hit with that setup?

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