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Zel
member
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 75
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My effort to get my kids to become interested in science, and specifically astronomy, has resulted in my youngest requesting a telescope for his seventh birthday. Great, except that I now know the scoop on cheap scopes.
Given a first-grader's attention span, motor skills, tendency to break things and early bedtime, would I be a bad dad to get him a super-cheapo (less than $50)?
How about one of those Meade TeleStar's available at Wal-Mart and other places. I mean, really, what is he going to be able to look at without much help? The moon and a few planets? As much as I'd like to get a small refractor, cheap go-to or StarBlast for the family to take camping and for quick looks, I don't want to give him a qualified present; I want it to be his to use whenever he gets the urge and opportunity. On the other hand, I don't want it to be a total waste of money.
Suggestions?
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Zhumell 8" f5.9 Dob
EPs:
6mm BO/TMB Planetary
MIA: 9mm BO/TMB Planetary
9mm Zhumell
26mm 2" Zhumell
Zhumell 2" Barlow
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David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 6566
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.38 X 90....
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You wouldn't be a bad Dad at all. Just the fact that you want to help him become involved in science through astronomy is a good thing! However, seeing that you already have a nice scope that I'm sure your son has viewed through, even he might question your choice...in other words, he's been spoiled by a good view. 
This scope from Orion would be easily handled by a 7 year old and will have great views compared to the $50 wally world scope not to mention the greater stability of the Orion scope.
I understand budgets, though. If all you wish to spend it $50, maybe you could find something a little better in the used market. Just a thought.
David
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A few scopes and mounts.
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
Life expectancies would go WAY up if green vegetables smelled like bacon...
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John Kocijanski
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/22/03
Posts: 1488
Loc: Monticello, NY
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Here is another vote for the Orion XT4.5. Great for kids as well as adults.
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John
Deep Space Observer 10 * SPC-8 * C102 HD f/10 * XT 4.5 * AT1010N * PST *
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d1anderson
sage
Reged: 10/11/07
Posts: 268
Loc: North Central Texas
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That's a toughie. What's the level of interest shown by the rest of the family. My first reation says get him something more than a super cheapo. You don't want to stifle his interest due to shoudy equipment and I'll bet he could be persuaded to share "his" telescope with the rest of the family on special occasions. Besides, I believe the biggest contributing factor in growing his interest is how much time you spend with him under the stars and you're going to want something a little better than super cheapo.
Clear Skies to you both
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Dewayne
-------
Z12 dob
MEADE DS2130AT NEWT 494goto
MEADE NG60 REFRACTOR
A Bunch of supplied Eye Pieces
The more you look the more you'll see! 
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Mizar
sage
Reged: 07/06/05
Posts: 269
Loc: NE Illinois, U.S.
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Hi,
That 4.5 Dob is a nice choice. One member of our club has one and he sets it up on his quadropod (stool). It is light and very easy to use. It's not just a good scope for a 7 year old but it is fun to use for this 56 year old.
Bill
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CPC800
C80ED
PST
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Lee Jay
sage
Reged: 02/27/08
Posts: 421
Loc: Westminster, CO
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When I was thinking about a scope for my son (age 4), one thing I wanted was an erect, non-reversed image so that image orientation wouldn't add further confusion unnecessarily. That means binoculars or spotting scopes. The Celestron C65 and C70 are nice and cheap, produce an erect image, have zoom eyepieces and come with a mini-tripod with slow-motion controls. Something like the Orion ShortTube 80 spotting scope version would be similar but more powerful and expensive, plus you'd need a tripod/mount.
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Protheus
Vaguely offended
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 4664
Loc: Illinois, US
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Ouch. Ok, I have one of the 60mm Meades. The objective is not bad, and the focuser is not good, but is workable with lighter eyepieces. The barlow that comes with it is complete garbage, the eyepieces are not. The mount is nearly, but not quite too frustrating to use.
All in all, it's surprisingly good for a department store scope. Throw away the barlow, and use it with the eyepieces included and maybe some plossls or orthos and a barlow that actually works, and you'd have something. You'd need to somehow get it on to a workable tripod, though, which may be a big deal. In a best case, the tripod that comes with it will require a lot of periodic manual adjustment of the bolts and so on, and may not be suitable for a young child because of this.
Mine came with the red dot finder, which -- given what I've heard about the mounting of their optical finders -- is probably a good thing.
To tell you the truth, there are older 60mm to 80mm achromats that were pretty decent, and the older wooden tripods are much nicer than what you get in a modern department store scope. If you can find an older 60mm refractor, with the optics and mechanical parts in some known acceptable state, that somebody wants to sell, it may be the best sub-$100 scope you can get.
Other things to consider: The Stellarvue SV-50, which is right around $100, but would probably mount on a standard camera tripod. Figure at least $150 for a whole setup. Orion spaceprobe 3 alt/az; just around $100, tripod mount and a couple of kellners included. Supposed to be ok, considering...
Chris
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"To tread the sharp edge of a sword;
to run on smooth-frozen ice,
one needs no footsteps to follow..."
"Well, people sometimes ask me 'how did you get involved in astronomy?' I said 'I got born, what's your problem?'" -- John Dobson
"In discussing the large-scale structure of the cosmos, astronomers sometimes say that space is curved, or that the universe is finite but unbounded. Whatever are they talking about?" -- Carl Sagan
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4464
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Zel-
Hmmm... tough quandry.  From yer sigline its apparant that you're already underway in your own pursuit of things astro! And you probably have a pretty decent idea of what you'd get with the "Wally-World" special...
You might scan the CN 'Classifieds' looking for something like this... could be mounted on a simple photo tripod or table-top tripod, or down the road on one of these cool new Al-Az rigs. It could be *his* scope using a "family" mount- one that is also used by other scopes at times when needed.
Or how about a decent Dob? I could wish i myself were in the market for this one!
Otherwise, keep an eye out on the "clearance" area of major vendors like Orion, OPT, Astronomics, Hands-on, etc... good deals on "blem" scopes that are otherwise quite functional can be had with a little watching & waiting. How long before B-day?
A Dob or small refractor oughta be about as tough & resilient as a scope can possibly be...
Best wishes to you in this pursuit!
mike b
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
 Pacheco State Park
 Fremont Peak
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Zel
member
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 75
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When I decided I was going to get a scope, the xt4.5 was where I started, but I got aperture fever before I even bought anything.
I was hoping he would forget about the telescope thing before his birthday (in December) but, my wife emailed me the link to Toys R Us scopes *shudder, shudder* and got me going.
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Zhumell 8" f5.9 Dob
EPs:
6mm BO/TMB Planetary
MIA: 9mm BO/TMB Planetary
9mm Zhumell
26mm 2" Zhumell
Zhumell 2" Barlow
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4464
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Zel-
Actually, the first scope that came to my mind was the one you seemed to be discounting as a possibility- one of the 'StarBlast' reflectors. These are, from all i hear, hot-rod scopes! Optically they're quite good, mechanically they're simple & enjoyable- and their constructuion is about as solid & trouble-free as you'll find.
In fact, we almost NEVER see them pop up as "used"! That may mean something! 
The other scope type that might fit the bill is the old "Astroscan"... i think Bushnell has a variant called the "Voyager". Try Googling these, and see what turns up. And have you tried the, uhh, "other" website- "AstroMart"? They have a HUGE base for used equipment.
mike b
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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Protheus
Vaguely offended
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 4664
Loc: Illinois, US
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Ok, it's not quite an astroscan, but Adorama will sell you a celestron explorascope 80 (which I think has a fixed eyepiece, but otherwise should be ok) for $35. Check here.
Chris
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"To tread the sharp edge of a sword;
to run on smooth-frozen ice,
one needs no footsteps to follow..."
"Well, people sometimes ask me 'how did you get involved in astronomy?' I said 'I got born, what's your problem?'" -- John Dobson
"In discussing the large-scale structure of the cosmos, astronomers sometimes say that space is curved, or that the universe is finite but unbounded. Whatever are they talking about?" -- Carl Sagan
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bemusabord
super member
Reged: 06/03/08
Posts: 100
Loc: western NY
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Zel:
How about a used Edmund Astroscan ... they're simple and pretty bullet-proof with young ones and can be had these days usually for about $80-100.
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Thom B. - Stargaze Cherry Springs
Happily Infected With Anti-Aperture Fever!
Orion Eon 80ED w/ AstroTech Voyager
PICHELOUP Couch Potato Telescope
Celestron Ultima 8x42
Canon IS 15x45
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coopman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/23/06
Posts: 1209
Loc: South Louisiana
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Another vote for the XT4.5. I gave one to a friend's son and it is really good for the price.
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Regards,
Clay
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalms 19:1
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4464
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Nice catch, Chris! That's the one i saw recently, but thot was the 'Bushnell' job.
Clicking on the link & scrolling down to user comments, 'black thumb' clarifies that it does, indeed, use std. 1-1/4" EPs! But he has a list of caveats...
Still, for your $35, this "could" work as a low-power, hand-held, kid's telescope. But it would NOT be usefull for any kind of planetary magnification, not really... there's barely any way to hold it significantly steady enough to really enjoy a higher-mag view. Its a widefield, back-pack, "sweeper" scope, and as such should do nicely!
Yet if it were me- i'd do the StarBlast. That's a scope that'll do it all. Granted, its more of an investment. Good stuff generally is...
Have fun!
 mike b
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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BrienSZ
member
Reged: 08/11/08
Posts: 28
Loc: NJ
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My daughter has had an interest in space since the age of three. I've fostered it without jamming it down her throat. We go thru phases where there is deep interest everyday for a week, then maybe nothing for two, then interested in it a couple times a week and so on.
With that, she knows which planets are the rocky ones and which are the gas ones and she knows at least one or two distinctive features of the planets as well as some knowledge of nebulas and such. It is amazing. She is now learning constellations and star names.
I told my wife that is by 6 she was still interested that I would purchase a solid intro scope for her 6th birthday. Well the enthusiasm never waned. SO I went out, on the advice of several astronomy club folks, and picked up the Orion SkyQuest 6 Dob. She has loved it.
We have used it several times to look at Jupiter and the moon and have bounced around some stars.
I am trying to learn the heavens so that I can locate things and teach them to her so that she isn't standing out there while daddy fumbles around trying to locate stuff and losing interest. It is working so far but we haven't had the scope a month. So I'm new to this too but it is fun for me as well.
Anyway, so I just thought I'd share our story.
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fireman
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/27/07
Posts: 515
Loc: Houston, Texas
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When my Grandson said he wanted to out and observe with me he used my Obsession, but the push to go and the size of the scope (he's 9) gave him some problems and I was always helping him get back on target. I wanted to encourge him so I purchased a Astro Tech refractor (he thinks it's his scope) and the alt az controls work well for him as does the size. It's very easy to control and for him to line up the target  . The other night he found the moon and Jupture on his own and now he's doing his own ep change outs and still asking me a lot of questions...  I would encourge a refractor or the Astroscan over a dob
His latest question was "How do they take those cool pictures?"  What have I created...
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Rick H
Obsession 12.5" #1543
Argo Navis DSC
ServoCAT Jr.
31mm,22mm,5mm,Ethos 13mm,Ethos 8mm
Astro-Tech 80EDT
Astro-Tech Voyager altazimuth mount
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NerfMonkey
sage
Reged: 06/12/08
Posts: 205
Loc: NE Ohio
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I've never even seen a StarBlast of any size in person but it seems like the best idea to me from what I've read here and elsewhere. Like you said, a young child will probably not be interested in seeing anything beyond the moon, planets and stars (well maybe a few open clusters...) so you don't need a large aperture, just quality optics. Then if he shows interest in seeing any faint DSO's you can share the 8" Dob with him. Based on what I've read around the net the StarBlast seems like it would fit the bill with quality optics, decent price and ease of use; not to mention it would be tough to beat it up too badly, even for a little kid. So I'll cast another vote for the StarBlast.
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Mike
71 Messiers
155 total DSOs
6 planets
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4464
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Quote:
What have I created...
Heaven help us all- an astronomer! 
     
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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fireman
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/27/07
Posts: 515
Loc: Houston, Texas
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It's a good time for Grandfather and Grandson... I love the questions. It amazing what he ask!
One thing to add... Don't rush the kid. Let them look at their leaser or when you see something cool, invite them to take a look.
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Rick H
Obsession 12.5" #1543
Argo Navis DSC
ServoCAT Jr.
31mm,22mm,5mm,Ethos 13mm,Ethos 8mm
Astro-Tech 80EDT
Astro-Tech Voyager altazimuth mount
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Jerry Moore
sage
Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 311
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Another vote for the Edmund Scientific. One of our group's member has one and I love the view through that simple little red "bowling ball"
Jerry
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