Obx
member
Reged: 08/01/08
Posts: 68
Loc: Beautiful OBX
|
|
My wife keeps telling me to buy new binoculars to replace my Celestron Ultima 8x42s for stargazing (earlier I complained here about not being able to see M4). I have been balking, so she went ahead and bought me an Orion Parallelogram mount and tripod. Nice and heavy and it seems stable (rated for holding 5 lbs.). Anyway, to get to the point, I spend most of my time now looking at the moon (she also bought me a nice moon chart) because of all the light pollution here, so I’m considering something in the 20 x 80 neighborhood—but not too costly. So far my two choices are the Garrett 20x80 UL (3 degree fov and very light weight at about 4 lbs.) and the Pentax PCF WP 20x60—although the 2.2 degree fov seems very narrow to me.
I gather that a lot of people like the Pentax (although how they manage to find objects in that narrow fov escapes me). Has anyone had any experience with the Garrett 20x80 UL? I think it is the same as the Garrett LW but with an L-mount instead of the heavy center mounting post.
All suggestions taken to heart.
--------------------
Swift Sea Hawk 6x30
Westinghouse M3 6x30
Spencer Lens Mk 13 US Navy 7x50
Bausch & Lomb Mk 28 US Navy 7x50
National Instrument Mk 32 US Navy 7x50
Celestron Ultima 8x42
Orion Mini Giant 15x63
Meade 2045D S-C
Meteorites & Tektites
|
Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2462
|
|
Quote:
My wife keeps telling me to buy new binoculars to replace my Celestron Ultima 8x42s for stargazing ...
Quote:
... I have been balking, so she went ahead and bought me an Orion Parallelogram mount and tripod.
Quote:
All suggestions taken to heart.
Keep the wife .
--------------------
Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
|
AV in CMH
sage
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 315
Loc: Columbus Ohio
|
|
Obx,
I recently bought the Pentax 20 x 60mm. I have been using them regularly and like them very much.
In my estimation the build quality is indicative of a much more expensive optic. The view is narrow as you mention but sharp and flat.
Finding objects is not difficult. I have them mounted on a homemade P type mount. For me, all I do is aim them in the general area of the object I want to find. Then with a little sweeping of the sky, I can find what I am after.
A word of caution, daytime use is not the strong point of these optics.
Regards,
Good luck,
Anthony
|
Obx
member
Reged: 08/01/08
Posts: 68
Loc: Beautiful OBX
|
|
Anthony,
What is the daytime downside to the Pentax?
I guess I don't understand what is really meant by the narrow field. I am so used to the picture in my 8x42s being so big when I look in the eyepiece (6.6 degrees). Does that mean that I will see a much smaller viewing circle surrounded by a much larger blackened area? I'm afraid this is all a little new to me.
--------------------
Swift Sea Hawk 6x30
Westinghouse M3 6x30
Spencer Lens Mk 13 US Navy 7x50
Bausch & Lomb Mk 28 US Navy 7x50
National Instrument Mk 32 US Navy 7x50
Celestron Ultima 8x42
Orion Mini Giant 15x63
Meade 2045D S-C
Meteorites & Tektites
|
Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2462
|
|
Picture looking through two different pieces of pipe, each one is 2 feet long... one is 2 inches in diameter- one is 6 inches in diameter. Not an exact analogy, but should give you an idea. The Pentax's do have a very good reputation for not only optical quality- but also overall build quality, but yes- the field of view is going to be narrower than some others.
Wes
P.S.- Buy the wife some flowers, too! 
|
Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
|
|
Quote:
P.S.- Buy the wife some flowers, too!
At least ...
|
Obx
member
Reged: 08/01/08
Posts: 68
Loc: Beautiful OBX
|
|
Thanks Wes. Given that explanation, there would seem to be a dramatic difference between the 2.2 degrees fov of the Pentax and the 3 degrees fov of the Garrett. I'm just not sure I could stand such a tunnel vision view from the Pentax.
--------------------
Swift Sea Hawk 6x30
Westinghouse M3 6x30
Spencer Lens Mk 13 US Navy 7x50
Bausch & Lomb Mk 28 US Navy 7x50
National Instrument Mk 32 US Navy 7x50
Celestron Ultima 8x42
Orion Mini Giant 15x63
Meade 2045D S-C
Meteorites & Tektites
|
Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2462
|
|
There wouldn't be as dramatic a difference between the 2.2 degree fov of the Pentax's/3 degree of the Garretts you mention immediately above as there would be in the case of the 6.6/2.2 degree comparison referenced further above.
Wes
|
AV in CMH
sage
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 315
Loc: Columbus Ohio
|
|
Obx,
Wes got it right when he described the effect. The cartoon shows the effect, although I think I got a little carried away with it.
While some may have issues with these binoculars I really like them. I have come to appreciate high magnification. The narrow FOV issue means that in the day you become very aware of the optics. Perhaps a bigger issues with these is that placement of the eye is more critical than with other binocular I have used. For me, once I concluded that this effect is not a defect in the binoculars but rather a result of the narrow FOV I got over having any problem with the effect and started really enjoying the view and quality of the binocular. And, I don't use these during the day anyway. At night they form a perfect image circle.
So why keep these?
Ergonomics - they fit my hands so well that even 20x I get the feeling that I can hand hold them more than I really can.
Focus lock - these have the ability to freeze the position of the eyepieces so that if you press against the EP they do not move
Bright optics - These seem bright to me. Perhaps it is the coating? I had a Barska 15 x 70mm and these seem as bright.
Sharp focus - The view is very sharp across most of the FOV. Starts look like dot.
Flat Field - as you sweep the sky the image does not roll
Fast cool down - I can take these out of the house and be enjoying the sky in minutes.
Low weight - Easy to hand hold if you want to scan the sky and less of a challenge for the mount
Relatively low cost - ; )
By the way, I have a 25 x 100mm binocular. After seeing what can be done with a 60mm optic I masked the 100mm to 60mm. I was shocked by the sharpness of the FOV. Looking at Saturn a couple of months ago I was really pleased by how much better the view was than without the mask. Not as bright but really nice. I would say the sharpness was on par with the Pentax. I should not be surprised as the focal length with the mask is probably around F7 versus F4. In any case, perhaps you should consider larger binoculars with 20 power and then mask them when you want sharpness.
Regards,
Anthony
|
KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10163
Loc: Lancashire UK
|
|
< In any case, perhaps you should consider larger binoculars with 20 power and then mask them when you want sharpness. >
Agreed , AV !
I've been advocating that for more than a year now , as it is precisely what I discovered and reported with my 20 x 90 Strathspey binos .
I can't recall a single post of feedback with regard to this useful tip , one way or the other , although on several occasions , regular contributor Ron has more than hinted at similar improvements by masking down his 70mm Fujinons ! :-)
I suppose one can only assume that most people feel it ridiculous to pay for twin 90mm of aperture and then forfeit so much of it for improvements in visual aspects other than sheer light gathering and exit - pupil -- but for me , unless I'm viewing in very dark skies , for more types of sky objects than not ( i.e stars per se , as opposed to DSOs -- and especially for daytime viewing ) I think the benefits of the larger focal ratio outweigh the disadvantages of the forfeiture of the aforementioned .
This , of course , specific to scenarios whereby optical quality is found to be , shall we say , left " wanting " in the first place ! :-)
Clear skies
Kenny
--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
|
Obx
member
Reged: 08/01/08
Posts: 68
Loc: Beautiful OBX
|
|
Well, a lot of you seem to like the Pentax and nobody has any experience with the Garretts, but even so I'm still on the fence between the two. It is a hard decision.
--------------------
Swift Sea Hawk 6x30
Westinghouse M3 6x30
Spencer Lens Mk 13 US Navy 7x50
Bausch & Lomb Mk 28 US Navy 7x50
National Instrument Mk 32 US Navy 7x50
Celestron Ultima 8x42
Orion Mini Giant 15x63
Meade 2045D S-C
Meteorites & Tektites
|
AV in CMH
sage
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 315
Loc: Columbus Ohio
|
|
Kenny,
Masking the 25 x 100mm to 60mm was an eye opening moment. I wish I would have seen your post on this and experimented sooner. The FOV sharpness was much more improved than I would have thought.
Perhaps sometime I can place the Pentax and the 25 x 100mm masked to 60mm side by side and do a comparison.
With the mounting issues due to weight aside, the 25 x 100mm masked to 60 or 80mm may turn out to be a very interesting set up.
Regards,
I wonder how EDZ tables on binocular performance would be changed by masking the outer 10% of any given optic?
Anthony
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12599
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
Approx the outer 10% of most (other than premium) optics is already masked. You'd need to go to 20% to see any difference.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
