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Equipment Discussions >> Video and Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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rolandlinda3
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/24/06
Posts: 1586
Loc: Crozet VA 22932
Color study of the Swan
      #2595493 - 08/21/08 02:54 PM

This the link to the sketch and post of the color study on the Swan. The reason I have repeated it here is because the study of color in an object with astro video cameras is not a quick process. I recommend, of course, knowing your camera and monitor well, because small adjustments can make a substantial difference in what you see. For instance, this sketch was developed using gain that was fairly high (40%) but short integration (mostly 7 seconds and 14 seconds at the end. Integration times do affect color: 2 seconds shows only a hint, 7 seconds shows plenty of detail, 14 seconds shows commensurate detail as 7 seconds but also provides a touch more color brightness. Also, color settings make a big difference. I typically reduce Red by a notch and increase Blue because of the sensitivity of the chip toward red. Red can overwhelm other colors to the eye if no adjustment is made. Last, cloud condition/haze also affect things by increasing reds/pinks that are more easily reflected and get into the background...reducing contrast. One can adjust gain to some extent, but when one starts to lose the ability to see other colors, you know that higher gain is not going to help matters.

We examine the objects using a B&W monitor that still delivers a very nice view (minus color). You can see a little more detail as far as evidence of nebulosity, but any effects of detail rendered by color are typically not noticed in B&W.

Last note: don't be in a hurry. The Swan, for instance, like many nebulae, has lots of reds/pinks, but the detail in differnt hues and the evidence of the purples/blues is not immediately apparent. So, taking the time to examine portions of the object are very worthwhile.

Last, the view on an 80mm was still excellent. While small detail in the nebulous regions was not decipherable, the extended field nebulosity was very good but I did not have enough time to conduct a second sketch. I do notice, however, that the detail in the now-popular 4 inch refractors is quite a bit better than the 3.5 inch variety. Color delivered to screen is sensitive to what I call color density. Light gathering appears to have a minimum to me when I look at a screen. So the 80-mm delivers a nice view; the 102mm delivers a non-linearly better view with almost the same field; the 12.5 inch delivers excellent detail and color but you lose the field.

All these things are helpful to me as lessons learned. Perhaps they will help someone else as well.

Roland


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bigdob24
member


Reged: 04/19/08
Posts: 46
Loc: Central Illinois
Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: rolandlinda3]
      #2595727 - 08/21/08 05:14 PM

Roland
I like your sketches , and always have a look when you post.
Color can be difficult to work with as you need to make adjustment with each object. I try to start off the night with some colorful objects that are easy to dial in and get my eye kind of trained, then goto the more obscure things on the evenings list. It is just a matter of taste, and individual preference , once you get close.
Color does make the WOW factor when ya have a crowd, its hard to beat.
Dan


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smokin oakum
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Reged: 09/24/07
Posts: 1420
Loc: Wilmington, NC
Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: bigdob24]
      #2595861 - 08/21/08 06:47 PM Attachment (19 downloads)

Roland that is so0 close to what I see on my CRT monitor! You keep getting better and better!

Here is a comparison:

Sketch of M17 done by Roland

Neil

--------------------
Broadcasting live views of the night sky @
Sparkcast
C11 CGE / Hyperstar
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Orion 12" XTi f/4.9
MoonLite Focuser
Round Table Platform
12" Parralax rings

Cape Fear Astronomy Club




Edited by smokin oakum (08/22/08 01:21 PM)


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smokin oakum
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Reged: 09/24/07
Posts: 1420
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Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: smokin oakum]
      #2595862 - 08/21/08 06:48 PM Attachment (16 downloads)

Image taken with a 12" newt at 14 seconds

--------------------
Broadcasting live views of the night sky @
Sparkcast
C11 CGE / Hyperstar
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Orion 12" XTi f/4.9
MoonLite Focuser
Round Table Platform
12" Parralax rings

Cape Fear Astronomy Club




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Chris SchroederModerator
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Reged: 12/11/04
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Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: smokin oakum]
      #2596042 - 08/21/08 08:30 PM

Really nice sketch Roland and nice image Neil.

--------------------
Chris
Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
10" DSH with SC DSC, CPC 800 XLT
M102ED S.V., ZS 80FD 10th Anniv, ZS 66SD, PST
POD XL3 http://POD.SchroederCity.com



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rolandlinda3
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Reged: 01/24/06
Posts: 1586
Loc: Crozet VA 22932
Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: Chris Schroeder]
      #2601034 - 08/24/08 06:01 PM

Thanks for the comments. The slightly higher than normal AGC I used (about 40%) really drove the color home. I think Jack wanted to show a comparison, too, which might be helpful to those comparing apertures or settings. It was very nice night.

Roland


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gavbray
sage


Reged: 12/31/06
Posts: 230
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: smokin oakum]
      #2601109 - 08/24/08 06:29 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Neil

I like the shots you've posted including the Swan but, to me at least, they look like they could do with going a little longer and perhaps bumping up the gain, especially when you're at your dark site.

Here's a 28 second unprocessed shot of the Swan from light polluted suburbia for comparison. It was taken through my 14" SCT with Optec 0.33 FR.

Gavin

--------------------
14" LX200R + SV90T + AP1200GTO
31mm, 22mm, 17mm Naglers, 13mm Ethos, 10mm Pentax XW, 2X Powermate, AP MaxBright
Mallincam Hyper Plus Color, DFG/1394 video converter, Optec 0.33 & 0.7 FRs
IDAS LPS, DGM NPB & OIII, Lumicon Deep Sky, Baader UV-IR Cut, Baader SkyGlow


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smokin oakum
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Reged: 09/24/07
Posts: 1420
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Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: gavbray]
      #2601150 - 08/24/08 06:48 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Agreed Gavin. Here is the one from last night.

Neil

--------------------
Broadcasting live views of the night sky @
Sparkcast
C11 CGE / Hyperstar
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Orion 12" XTi f/4.9
MoonLite Focuser
Round Table Platform
12" Parralax rings

Cape Fear Astronomy Club




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greg
sage


Reged: 01/25/05
Posts: 379
Loc: Central Ca.
Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: smokin oakum]
      #2601839 - 08/25/08 02:47 AM

Quote:

Agreed Gavin. Here is the one from last night.

Neil




Neil, I like this one... You captured the Blue/Grey color in the body, by not over exposing the image.

Greg

--------------------
30" F/4.5 Truss
12" LX200 GPS
Celestron 102mm F/5 Finderscope
2" 26mm 70* Illuminated Reticle
26mm T5 Nagler
20mm T5 Nagler
13mm ETHOS
Pentax XW 10mm
MallinCam Color Hyper Plus
9" Speco HighRes. Color CRT Monitor
Light polluted Backyard
10' Home Dome
Great Darksite 1.5 Hrs. Away

Edited by greg (08/25/08 02:48 AM)


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gavbray
sage


Reged: 12/31/06
Posts: 230
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: smokin oakum]
      #2601860 - 08/25/08 03:16 AM

Neil

That looks even nicer.

Gavin

--------------------
14" LX200R + SV90T + AP1200GTO
31mm, 22mm, 17mm Naglers, 13mm Ethos, 10mm Pentax XW, 2X Powermate, AP MaxBright
Mallincam Hyper Plus Color, DFG/1394 video converter, Optec 0.33 & 0.7 FRs
IDAS LPS, DGM NPB & OIII, Lumicon Deep Sky, Baader UV-IR Cut, Baader SkyGlow


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smokin oakum
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 09/24/07
Posts: 1420
Loc: Wilmington, NC
Re: Color study of the Swan new [Re: gavbray]
      #2602041 - 08/25/08 08:10 AM

If we study Rolands image, we can see those hints of blue/gray all through it.

Neil

--------------------
Broadcasting live views of the night sky @
Sparkcast
C11 CGE / Hyperstar
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Orion 12" XTi f/4.9
MoonLite Focuser
Round Table Platform
12" Parralax rings

Cape Fear Astronomy Club




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