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rickertk
sage
Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Outer Philadelphia suburbs
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Ok, I'm sure that for some situations the answer is almost always yes, but I'm trying to keep my spending to a minimum here.
My current stable of eyepieces:
Pentax 30 mm XW
Nagler 12T4 and 7T6
And the 25 and 10 mm Sirius Plossls that came with my scope.
I also have a 1.25" 2x barlow.
So far, I've been pretty happy with all the premium eyepieces; I don't use the Sirius plossls much anymore.
I'm sure that for optimal magnification across a few ranges, more eyepieces would always be better, but for now, I think I have ok coverage for the capabilities of my scope and skies (scope is the f 5.9 Orion 8 XTi). However, I've got on order a 2" DGM NPB nebular filter. I already have enough 2" adaptors/tubes to be able to safely use this with 1.25" eyepieces. The recommendations listed are that a 2.5-7 mm exit pupil tends to be best with these filters; only my Pentax eyepiece covers that range. (The 12T4 has about a 2 mm exit pupil in this scope). Should I get something in between those two, so that I could use the filter with an higher level of brightness that I'd get from the 12T4, but still a bit more magnification than I get from the Pentax? If so, what should I get? (I'd think something between 16-20 mm or so to be most different from the eyepieces I have).
I'll try the filter out once it comes with all the eyepieces I have now anyways, to see what happens on different objects, but I'm curious what other's experiences have been as to how much I should think about an intermediate eyepiece.
Keith
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Oberwerk 11x56
Orion 8XTi
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jrbarnett
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/28/06
Posts: 2604
Loc: Petaluma, CA
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I think you're probably set for a lifetime of observing.
Nice line up.
Regards,
Jim
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"The Cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us — there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, of falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries." - Carl Sagan
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walt r
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/13/07
Posts: 2390
Loc: Doylestown, PA
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Keith,
Looks of you have a pretty good set. The DGM NPB filter is an excellent addition that you should find you'll use often.
I'm in Doylestown, if that is not far from you maybe you can can up some night to try some other EPs. I have a N17T4 that would fit in nicely between your Pentax 30 and your N12T4. PM me if you're interested.
I have a UHC filter that I use with a Pan35 for the wide views all the way down to a N7T6 for the small planetary nebulas. It really does depend on the object on what exit pupils will work well.
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Walt
Obsession 18" f/4.45 #1370 AN/SC
MK67 Deluxe 6" f/12 Mak-Cass, Super Polaris GEM, JMI MicroMax DSC
DIY 60mm f/6 Achromat
Cookbook 245 CCD
Edited by walt r (08/20/08 01:34 PM)
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coutleef
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/21/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Montreal and St-Donat, Québec,...
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Well,
depending on your sky conditions, having a 30mm EP as your lower power EP may sometimes be a problem if you live in an area with light pollution.
Could be nice to have an EP like a Pan 19 or a nagler 17T4 or 16T5 (i have experience with those, others would be nice, like the 20mm pentax since you have experience with them). The 17mm would give you a 71x magnification and a little over 1.1 degree FOV. I end up doing a lot of DSO observation around that magnification and a higher mag. than your 30 pentax would darken your background. A 20T5 would be nice also.
You can obviously do without them. But one of these would be nice to use with filters.
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François
Nexstar 8 SE
50mm StellarVue finderscope, Astronomik UHC-E and Orion OIII filters
WO Swan 40mm; TV Pan 22mm; TV Nagler 9T6, 12T4, 17T4; TV Plossl 11mm and 15mm.
WO 2" dielectric diagonal retrofitted with Denk Power Switch (and now reach the zenith with the shorty adapter).
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FirstSight
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/26/05
Posts: 2511
Loc: Raleigh, NC
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IF you really enjoy the the widefield view aspects of the 30 Pentax XW and 12T4, and the 25mm and 10mm plossls seem a bit too much to you like a course of cold tofu between courses of fresh-off-the-grill fillets of salmon and steak and ice cream dessert...then YES you need at least one more intermediate high-quality eyepiece to maximize viewing happiness. To extend the dining analogy, from a pure nutrition standpoint, the 26mm and 10mm plossls function perfectly adequately from a nutritional standpoint - but if they seemed satisfying enough to your viewing tastes, you wouldn't be here asking us this question in the first place, would you?
I would at the same time agree there's no rush here, and you're not missing out on any secrets to viewing the universe if for whatever reason, budgetary or otherwise, you decide to stand pat with what you have. It's a question of enhancing your enjoyment of visual astronomy - filling the gap with the right eps will definitely do that, it's just a question of whether it's worth it and comfortably affordable to you. We've all been there, done that with these kinds of decisions.
For choices, I agree with Walt: a 17Nagler would make an excellent (and adequate) gap-filler between your 12mm and 30mm widefields, and they frequently come available used in good condition on A-Mart for around $325 +/- a bit. If you eventually wanted a superior replacement for the 10mm plossl, a 9mmT6 Nagler would be a good choice - these come up periodically on A-Mart for around $225 used. But I'd go for the 17T4 first - it's an extremely versatile, most excellent eyepiece which is often being unloaded by the seller only because they just got a 13 Ethos.
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Chris M., aka "First Sight"
Orion XT12i Dob with Moonlite CR-2 focuser
WO Megrez 90 refractor on UniStar Light mount
Nikon 10x50 Binoculars
Edited by FirstSight (08/20/08 02:14 PM)
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4430
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Hi Keith-
I'll echo what others have stated- your collection is really quite good as-is! Yet if there WAS some room for improvement, your estimate, as well as the suggestions made, are likely spot-on. 
So let me now diverge to suggest the Meade 18mm UWA as an alternate for consideration, an EP which is currently being discussed on another thread. It seems to be getting rave reviews, and can be snagged "new" for less than a 17T4 Nagler *used*.
To go even farther afield, let me also suggest yet another alternative to ponder: A second Barlow!  The one i have in mind is THIS one, which also gets excellent reviews.
The beauty of this particular Barlow is what it'll do for your current EP line-up... AND for only ~$100:
Your absolutely gorgeous 30mm XW doubles duty at a gorgeous ~19mm (3.22mm exit-pupil)!
Your wonderful 12T4 doubles duty at a wonderful ~7.5mm (1.27mm ex-p)!
 mike b
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
 Pacheco State Park
 Fremont Peak
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 7618
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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Hi
Considering your existing collection and I always like to hear others first impressions,I believe you are good to go as I very much like your choices. If you think your eyepiece coverage is ok,then it IS ok,Keith. You have to please yourself,no one else can do it for you.
I'm not sure how much experience you have with your premium eyepieces but I'd suggest using them for a good while before adding to or replacing what you already have.
Enjoy! 
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Kenny
"When dealing with a mystery,choose the most unlikely of the likely possibilities"-Sherlock Holmes
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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1029
Loc: NE Ohio
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I'd echo the 17T4 Nagler as a possible gap-filler. Universal acclaim abounds for that eyepiece, and it's got ample eye relief.
Another possibility, since you already own a 30XW, is to pick up the Pentax 20XW.
If eye relief isn't an issue, you might want to try the Meade 18mm Ultrawide, or the 19mm Celestron Axiom LX.
Clear Skies,
Phil
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"Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****
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Alleline
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/07/06
Posts: 578
Loc: Farmington, Maine
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Wow, I can't believe so many people advising that oyu stand pat or buy a barlow. I agree that you're not going to experience a revelation with a 15-20mm EP. Might be a good idea to take Walt up on his offer and haul your scope over to his place for an evening, so you can see for yourself what a 17mm T4 can do. But in your place, I'd save the money for more aperture. (Heh heh).
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Tom
Meade DS-16 (F4.5), C-8, Synta 120mm F8.3 refractor.
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4430
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Quote:
Do I need another eyepiece?
You gotta be kidding us, right? After all this IS the CN eyepiece forum  where the inmates run the asylum 
Quote:
I'd save the money for more aperture.
Good plan, Tom! We can get the inmates in the "Reflectors" forum in on the action! 
Sorry, Keith... couldn't resist 
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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JustinJ
member
Reged: 08/07/08
Posts: 69
Loc: Central Pennsylvania
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I am looking at filling the middle spot on my telescope. I have a 10 inch dobson. I am thinking of a 19mm Panoptic, since it is 150.00 dollar cheaper than the Nagler 17. I have heard that the 19mm Panoptic is sharper. Perhaps, some others on the list have more experience to explain the difference in the Panoptic 19mm and the 17mm Nagler besides FOV and magnification. I have been very happy with my Panoptic 27mm.
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Discovery PDHQ 10 f6
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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1029
Loc: NE Ohio
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Justin,
The only thing I'd look out for regarding the 19mm Panoptic is eye relief. If you wear glasses, none of the 1.25"-Panoptics (the discontinued 15mm and 22mm, as well as the 19mm and the 24mm) have enough eye relief to comfortably use with glasses.
If you don't wear/need eyeglasses at the eyepiece, the 19mm Panoptic is a wonderful choice.
For an amount of money similar to the 19mm Panoptic (68-deg AFOV) is the 19mm Celestron Axiom LX (82-deg). I have the 23mm Axiom LX (or "Ax", as a sometimes call it), and it's pretty sharp, even in a 16" f/4.5 Dob.
What eyepiece do you have below the 27mm Panoptic?
Clear Skies,
Phil
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"Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****
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rickertk
sage
Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Outer Philadelphia suburbs
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Thanks for the advice, everyone. The Antares 1.6x barlow is definitely an option for me to consider, and I'll work on trying both the eyepieces I have and hopefully something from someone else's collection to see how things shape up. (Walt, I sent you a PM). The filter came in today, so I'll have to go point it at some nebulae in a bit (scope is outside cooling now) and see what things look like. I'm trying to keep the eyepiece collection to minimal expense but to end up with a set that would work well with a hypothetical future larger, faster scope. (Which in turn means a sparse set of good eyepieces, hence what I have now). I'm pretty happy with the range I have now for what I've been doing; it's mostly the question of how things work with the filter.
Keith
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Oberwerk 11x56
Orion 8XTi
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JustinJ
member
Reged: 08/07/08
Posts: 69
Loc: Central Pennsylvania
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Hello Phil,
I have below the 27mm Panoptic, a 17mm TeleVue Plossl, 12mm Radian, and a TV 1.25 2x Barlow . I like the 17mm for barlowing on the planets. I like the magnification of the 17mm alone but the fov is small and was looking for something in that range with a wider fov. I am tempted by the 13mm Ethos but it is really expensive and the idea of two nice eyepieces for the same price sounds better right now.
I am leaning towards a 2 inch eyepiece. I use the 27 Panoptic most of the night as a finder and general viewing. The problem is that everytime I want to change the magnification from the 27mm, the 1 1/4 adapter has to be put in. It is a juggling act. Expensive eyepiece in one hand and trying to fit the adapter into the focuser with the other hand. I am proficient at it but another 2 inch eyepiece seems like it would be better enjoyment for my viewing.
I would prefer to have just 3 wide field eyepieces and a good planetary eyepiece. I usually only observe planets at the end of the night.
I do not wear eyeglasses but like nice eye-relief.
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Discovery PDHQ 10 f6
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Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2978
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Back onto OP topic!
between a 30XW and a 12T4; I'd actually lean more to the 22T4 (or a 20T5), than the 17T4... Here's why:
1) 30XW and 12T4 are uber-premium EPs
2) Folks with uber-premiums *may* eventually succumb to the Ethosian fever...
3) If that should happen (in it's 13mm subvariant), replacing the 12T4, then a 17T4 would be basically redundant, whereas the 22T4 (or 20T5) would not be...
just a thought from MY expeience
clear enough skies
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Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
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coutleef
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/21/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Montreal and St-Donat, Québec,...
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I would not entirely agree with that,
several of us who bougth the Ethos have kept the 17T4 and still use it. Others don't and i think it all depends on seeing conditions. Under average conditions, the 17 may be better than the 13.
I am amongst those who prefer to keep the 12T4 and 17T4 than trade both for an Ethos. I would keep the 17T4 if i ever bougth an Ethos.
I have a 22 Pan (not far from a 22T4 in terms of quality) and i think it would be too close to the 30mm (i find the 22 with focal reducer is sometimes quite close to my 40mm without reducer!).
I had suggested a 19 Pan or 17T4. I had both and kept the 17T4. I have not found that the 19 pan was sharper. The 17T4 was quite immersive.
I agree that the 19 Pan is a great EP. I had to sell mine one month ago. I am still unsure that was a good move. But the 17T4 is way superior to the 19 Pan in terms of FOV and immersive feeling.
However, some have difficulties with the 17T4 with blackouts and it is heavy (and pricy).
What about a 20T5?
This is so much fun to spend the money of others on quality EPs 
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François
Nexstar 8 SE
50mm StellarVue finderscope, Astronomik UHC-E and Orion OIII filters
WO Swan 40mm; TV Pan 22mm; TV Nagler 9T6, 12T4, 17T4; TV Plossl 11mm and 15mm.
WO 2" dielectric diagonal retrofitted with Denk Power Switch (and now reach the zenith with the shorty adapter).
Edited by coutleef (08/21/08 10:37 AM)
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Shawn H
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Southern France 43°56'N-4°50'E
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Well Keith
I agree with Jim! You chose wisely and have great kit, your premium ep's cover the low, medium & high ranges for your xt8i. The nebula filter will be a little darker in your higher range ep's, but you'll still see nebulas easier in them! If you REALLY want to keep spending to a minimum, your all set!!! But if you catch the "equipment" virus, your just getting started Shawn
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xt10i with Telrad & feather touch focuser & huge Boston Red Sox decal
Starblast
15x70 Celestron Skymasters
35Stratus
27Pan
13 Ethos
8 Ethos
Orion ultrablock
Astronomik OIII
Tele Vue 2x barlow
Antares 1.6x barlow (2")
CATSEYE collimation tools
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Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2978
Loc: Bolton, MA
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HI Francois...
Of course you are right, with an SCT I would definitely keep a 17T4 even with a 13E...
but with my 1200mm f4.7 Newt, seeing is never so bad with 13 that I'd need to drop down to 17, and since the fov was the same == total redundancy...
and as far as 12T4 versus 13E - well... nuff said
(though I still miss the ER of that old 12T4 - sniff)
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
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