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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Batteries bad for scope?
      #2596227 - 08/22/08 05:57 AM

I have heard in the past that people have had problems using batteries in their meade scopes in sub freezing temperatures. I myself have never had this problem but it is a legitimate concern.

For the past 2 years i have powered my scope with 8 c cell batteries. I buy the cheap cheap shop right generic 8 pack of C cell batteries for 7 bucks. The duracell and energizer are 9-12 for the same pack, but all 3 batteries have same exact specifications. They even all have the same life expectancy. There batteries are NOT rechargeable.

Does using batteries, or rather cheap ones, do anything to the electronics of the scope? So far from my experience, I listen very closely to the gears working in the telescope goto drives to see if i can detect any problems. All smooth operation for past years. It works just as good now as it did first day i put the batteries in, and these batteries are almost dead. Meade quotes that you get 50-80 hours operating time from 8 c cell batteries.

Regardless, i am going to need to purchase a power supply to power accessories like dew heaters and a dew controller. There's just no way around it.

I am looking at this celestron. It has a TON of nice features that would be very handy to use while observing with a telescope. Its got a 100,000 candle power light which is strictly for emergencies, but it also has a RED capped strong flashlight on it. This is great for setting up in the dark. This power supply also has a radio for listening to music!
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=105-238-242-3279

At optcorp is the cheapest price at 90 bucks. 17 AH, what do you think. Enough power for a meade 8" lx-90, dew heater, and dew controller? I would need 1 power supply to last me two nights. That's the longest i would ever spend at star parties i think.

Any particular power supplies you can recommend?

What power supply do you use for your meade telescope?

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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Bob Griffiths
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Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 4116
Loc: Frederick Maryland
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2596301 - 08/22/08 08:08 AM

Several companies sell power supplies very similar yet usually much CHEAPER then the Celestron units...Wal-Mart, Sears, Almost every corner Auto Parts Store ..

I own a couple of the Celestron units mine have held up just fine BUT I removed the bulbs from that 1 million candle power spotlight on both of them...too easy to turn it on by mistake when you are tired...

Bob G

--------------------
CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W


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Treehopper
sage


Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 215
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Bob Griffiths]
      #2596342 - 08/22/08 08:57 AM

The Power Tanks work nicely from all accounts. Two things to keep in mind:

1) Eventually you'll have to replace the cells in the unit. The Power Tanks are essentially car battery jumpers. They're designed for brief surges of juice to turn over your car. According to what I've read, when you use low consumption, continuous draw applications with these types of supplies, the lead cores in the cells gradually flake, shortening the useful life of the cells. The good news is, the cells can be replaced in the unit without having to toss the whole unit in the landfill.

2) Objects in ads may appear smaller than they actually are. From all accounts, the larger Power Tank is a minor boat anchor. Just consider whether you want to lug around an extra 12 or so pounds every time you go out. For a strapping young Jersey lad, may not be so bad. For a gimpy ol' dude like me, not so much.

Also worth mentioning that the red light may still be a bit too intense if you're out with other folks and they're still observing. It likely will blow dark adaption. Shouldn't be a problem if you're on your own, or if you're sure everyone is finished for the night.

--------------------
Tim

Third oak on the right, and straight on 'til morning.

Meade ETX-125PE (NGC7000 Edition)

When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Treehopper]
      #2596624 - 08/22/08 12:55 PM

Yes, i have seen this mentioned breifly...something about deep cycle batteries.

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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KimB
member


Reged: 02/28/08
Posts: 90
Loc: UK
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2596826 - 08/22/08 02:49 PM

I've seen reports of c cells leaking and causing problems with the Az drives. Also there have been reports of battery wires getting trapped in the gears, So I've also unplugged and removed the battery holders from my lx90.

--------------------
8" Meade lx90 LNT


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dunc.ellliott
super member


Reged: 10/06/06
Posts: 179
Loc: Syston, Leicester,UK
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2597084 - 08/22/08 05:12 PM

I have never used internal batteries.

I've got a SIP rescue pack bought in the UK for £50 4 years ago & used it with my ETX & now LX200 & started cars with flat batteries & left it for weeks without using it & it never gets below half power. It also has 2 mini flourescent light tubes which are great for when you have done viewing & are putting your scope away.

Recharges take about 2 hours.

--------------------
Meade 8" LX200R + Dell Inspiron 1501 + DSI + DSI pro ii + colour filter set + spc900nc + Fuji S5500


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: dunc.ellliott]
      #2597206 - 08/22/08 06:30 PM

Im curious...

What kind of power supply would be worthwhile? I have been told that the celestron 17 AH that i was looking at, and other "car battery" power supplies perform extremely poorly in freezing temperatures. It seems that when it gets below 32 Fahrenheit freezing, all forms of batteries lose voltage. Also, these batteries fade over time, delivering less and less power from a full charge as years go by, its been proven.

What kind of battery would you suggest that can handle cold temperatures, AND/OR is MADE to be drained, and charged every day for 5-10 years?

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2620203 - 09/02/08 10:48 PM

Heres a post of my question from the user group at yahoo, maybe someone here has some insight.

Ok let me explain about the current batteries I use.

I use Shop Rite brand batteries. I buy a 8 pack of C cell batteries
(total needed for the scope at one time) for only 6 dollars!

The same 8 pack of C cells from duracell or energizer are around 14
dollars. So yes, the batteries I buy are under 1/2 the price of brand
name batteries...however shoprite has informed me that they get their
batteries from the same exact factory that most companies get them
from...they are almost all made in china.

You know how eyepieces companies all get the same eyepiece from a
china factory, and THEN add their own cosmetic changes and coatings?
Well apparently the same thing is the case for batteries. All the
different battery companies like duracell energizer, and even lots of
cheaper companies are all getting their batteries made in china, then
they take these and put their cosmetic color and perhaps upgrade the
connection points.

Since you are in this field by profession...is this true?

Basically my only problem with the shoprite batteries I have been
using so far is that SOMETIMES, very rarely.....the autostar handbox
would lose voltage or something and go crazy. This would make the
alignment out of wack. I would need to turn off the telescope for a
minute, then turn it on and repeat alignment all over again. But, be
aware that this happens maybe once or twice every 6 months. So, it is
not a common occurrence.

Last night, using the same shop-rite batteries that have been inside
my telescope for 3+ months, I tested the electronics of the telescope
from 9pm - 4am.

What I found was perfection. The telescope maintained its tracking
accuracy all night long up until i turned it off at 4am. I suppose if
I left the scope on it could have maintained accuracy for even longer.

So...I am not quite sure how I feel about battery operation just yet.
What I do note is that when using batteries, the voltage goes up and
down. I can hear the dec and ra motors accelerating and decelerating
as the scope is slewing at max speed.

I assume that if I were to use power supply or socket
operation....then the scope would work optimally at all times?

Someone here mentioned that batteries could possibly leak into the
telescope? I have never had this happen to me before....how is it
possible? Usually I leave in the same batteries for as long as it
takes until the batteries are drained. I know you are supposed to take
the batteries out when storing the scope away for a long time, but
what if the scope is simply waiting in your garage or dining room
waiting to be used a following day. Is there a problem with leaving
the same batteries in there for as long as it takes for them to get
drained?

One last thing...can anyone here suggest to me where to buy the
optional wire to connect the telescope to a power supply or house wall
socket? I probably need both connectors as I will use a power supply
and a regular house wall socket that is near my balcony. I have a
25-50 foot extension cord to compensate for the distance.

Any other information anyone wants to share on the optimal ways to
power the telescope, don't hesitate to share it with us.

Oh right, I also wanted to ask.

What makes a battery leak? Does this event occur towards the end of a
battery's life?

Judging by the autostar battery life/level meter....my battery was at
50% last night, but tonight it says 60-70% battery life. Why does this
estimate keep fluctuating?

Based on what autostar is telling me, when should i discard these
current batteries and start using new ones?

I know batteries suck, so I will be ordering the 12v wire...I just
need to decide where to order from.

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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snowdragonusa
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 637
Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2620308 - 09/02/08 11:39 PM

You can think of it like using batteries to power your TV. They will work for a short amount of time and then poop out. Even though the batteries may still show a charge at half life they are pretty much useless for the scopes since they need a steady current.

I would be ordering a 12v cable and a AC adapter from the first place that has them in stock. They are both VERY useful. I use the AC adapter here at home. The DC goes out into the field with me along with my 22 amp Hour power supply. I am thinking seriously about building my own deep cycle power supply with a solar recharging station for when I am out in remote areas.

--------------------
Adam
12" LX200R
AT80mm piggyback
DSI Pro, DSI-C, LPI
Denver Astronomical Society
Brighton Astronomical Group


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: snowdragonusa]
      #2621664 - 09/03/08 03:11 PM

snowdragon I WANT to order that very same plug you are talking about.

I want that plug that comes with both the cigarette lighter, AND with the adapter to connect it into a regular house power outlet. I need this for both at home backyard use, and for use in the field.

Problem is, Im not sure which to get because some of these things are 50 bucks for a simple wire!! why is this??

Which one of these is the right one to get:

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope-accessories/power-supplies/meadeacwalladapterforlx200rlxd75andrcx400.cfm?source=gbase&gbid=Meade_Universal_AC_Adapter_for_ETX_LXD_LX90_LX200_LX400_Telescopes

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/202531-REG/Meade_07562__541_AC_Adapter_.html

http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/sc/from-froogle.asp?id=633835125&rf=froogle&dfdate=9_1_2008

http://www.shop.com/Meade_541_AC_Adapter-27485332-43797424-p!.shtml?sourceid=298

What is the difference between the 60 dollar "universal adapter" and the regular "541 AC Adapter" ?

Also, can i simply buy a generic wire that has the same specifications as this one meade makes?

Im sorry...but 50 dollars for this regular made in china wire?? Why is it so darn expensive?

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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Joe Lalumia
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 2526
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2622023 - 09/03/08 06:04 PM

You need these for a Meade scope--
http://scopestuff.com/ss_sma2.htm for the computer

http://scopestuff.com/ss_l5hc.htm for the hand controller

http://scopestuff.com/ss_cig1.htm AND FOR 12 volt power pack

--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s.
"The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax." - Albert Einstein


Edited by Joe Lalumia (09/03/08 06:05 PM)


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snowdragonusa
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 637
Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2622286 - 09/03/08 08:47 PM

I haven't used the Meade 541 power supply but I think I would feel better having a dedicated AC power supply rather than a two-in-one jobby.

I would go for the dedicated AC power supply for the $59 ( yes AC power supplies are all expensive.. just look at the prices for laptop AC or DC power supplies... ouch!). Then pick up the 5' DC cable mentioned in the last post or for $19 you can get a 25' cord.

You will be glad you bought the AC power supply.

--------------------
Adam
12" LX200R
AT80mm piggyback
DSI Pro, DSI-C, LPI
Denver Astronomical Society
Brighton Astronomical Group


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Joe Lalumia]
      #2622820 - 09/04/08 03:15 AM

Yep thanks joe, I remember you showing me those links before.

But you see....I need a cigarette lighter AND a home outlet connector at the same time.

When I am observing from my backyard, I have a 25 and 40 foot extension cord that I can use to simply connect the telescope to a outlet in my home. That is why I need BOTH a cigarette lighter and a home outlet connector for the telescope.

Ill check out scopestuff to see if they have it.

What would happen if I were to buy a similar generic connector to these wires?

Perhaps some online vendors sell cheap copies of these "meade" wires? 50 bucks for a cigarette lighter plug + home outlet plug is a bit extreme.

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2622825 - 09/04/08 03:20 AM

isnt this what i need?

http://scopestuff.com/ss_ps12.htm

Actually...I still think:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/202531-REG/Meade_07562__541_AC_Adapter_.html
Is a better idea...

Its either 44 for the only AC plugin...or 50 bucks for the DC AND AC adapter all in one.

Do you think that the cigarette and AC plugin for 50 bucks would be inferior in some way to the AC-only 44 dollar one from scope stuff?

To me, it seems like a better deal to simply order the 50 dollar one. You get to use the scope in the field from your car or from a power supply with the cigarette lighter....or you can use it from home by plugging in that cigarette lighter into the supplied AC adapter. Sounds good no?

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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katodog
Supreme Grandmaster
*****

Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 2273
Loc: Carol Stream, Illinois
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2623960 - 09/04/08 04:49 PM

I'm curious, didn't Google have the right answers for you? That's odd.


I Googled quite a few different things and there was an astonishing amount of results for field batteries. Maybe you could use the Google CN search engine to find more on this topic...


Google Cloudy Nights Search Engine

--------------------
The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked


12" Starhopper / Coronado PST
Stellarvue 20x85mm Binocular / LXD75 Mount
Sigma APO 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM
Sigma 18-200mm f3.5-6.3 DC OS
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM


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sang33ta
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/08/08
Posts: 539
Loc: UK
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: katodog]
      #2624021 - 09/04/08 05:23 PM

Batteries go off and have an expirey date like food. Beyond this date they will leak.

I find Duracell copper top are the best but my last batch ran down fast so i think they were fakes! I got them from a bargain store, that'll teach me.

My ETX-125 ran fine on batteries but my LX90 had very bad goto on batteries. With my Celestron kit I now use a SkyTronic Switch mode 2.5a 12v PSU bought on ebay for £15/$30 inc delivery.

--------------------
Hioptic 152mm f12.5 Maksutov
Celestron Advanced CG5-GT Mount (Mr Noisy!)
Meade 4000 Super Plossl Set
Casio QV-2900UX
Got fed up of waiting for Meade ETX-150 so put this together for £500/$1000


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: katodog]
      #2624268 - 09/04/08 07:27 PM

Thanks guys! that was very useful info.

Kato...funny you should mention that. I tried google but it gave me such vague answers and the batteries it linked me did not have any connectors. I need a battery to have several 12v DC and other receptacles for dew strips and scope power.

Every time i typed into google telescope power supply, it came up with the celestron power supply over and over, no other alternatives.

I think I will take a trip to loews or radio shack, to see what kind of power supplies they got. I want a regular one without any red flashlights or 100,000 candle flood lights on it. Naturally, without the radio and all these accessories its going to be cheaper.

I am trying to decide whether I am going to get a car jumpstart battery, which is what the celestron power tank is, or if i will get a deep cycle marine battery with 12v and other receptacles. Only problem is, I haven't found one yet.

The celestron and other car starter batteries are made for short high voltage bursts. If you use constant low drain on it, the battery will have a much lower lifetime. With a marine deep cycle battery, it is made for such low drain every day procedures, so it will probably last me longer.

Still looking and searching for a website to have a nicely priced deep cycle.

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: sang33ta]
      #2624271 - 09/04/08 07:29 PM

Quote:

Batteries go off and have an expirey date like food. Beyond this date they will leak.




So batteries technically could not leak until after the expiration date?

The shoprite batteries I am using in my scope were purchased right before using them, so their expiration date is somewhere in 2010 or 2011. Since the exp date on all my C cell batteries that i bought is so far away, the chance for a leak is very very small right?

--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)

Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”


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katodog
Supreme Grandmaster
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Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 2273
Loc: Carol Stream, Illinois
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2624326 - 09/04/08 07:59 PM

I've used batteries in my LX200R with no problems, but normally I'm using the Meade AC adapter. I also use a field battery (Vector brand, car-jumper style) that I bought for about $35 at Menard's. It hasn't failed me yet, it runs the scope perfectly, and I don't have to charge it all the time. I've had it for years and it hasn't shown any signs of problems. I've ran both the LX200R and the LXD75 simultaneously off of it with no issues, and have run plenty of other things with it too.

One trip to the inlaws, I actually jumped the van three times with it, and still didn't need to charge it for about a month or two after that. It still ran the scopes with no problems. Never discount good old-fashioned cheapness for getting something that will work perfectly.


As far as regular batteries go, you don't have to worry about them leaking unless you leave them in the scope unused for a long duration of time. Battery leakage only occurs when the battery is exposed to adverse temperatures, or when it is left in a device for a long time. I would think that in the scope with regular use, you'd run the power down before you ran the chance of leakage. But, for saving money on batteries, check out the local stores in your area for any car jumper battery, or something more powerful if you want.

I wouldn't bother with Radio Shack. While they always have excellent products, they are a bit pricey on a lot of stuff that you could get cheaper somewhere else. I'd try Lowe's, WalMart, and Sears. Sears actually has quite a selection (at least the one by me) of car jumper style batteries, and they look to be of pretty good quality.

--------------------
The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked


12" Starhopper / Coronado PST
Stellarvue 20x85mm Binocular / LXD75 Mount
Sigma APO 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM
Sigma 18-200mm f3.5-6.3 DC OS
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM


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snowdragonusa
professor emeritus
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Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 637
Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Batteries bad for scope? new [Re: Brooklyn]
      #2624659 - 09/04/08 11:18 PM

Quote:

What would happen if I were to buy a similar generic connector to these wires?

Perhaps some online vendors sell cheap copies of these "meade" wires? 50 bucks for a cigarette lighter plug + home outlet plug is a bit extreme.




Let me put it this way... would you trust a "Cheap Imitation" tire for your car? Or perhaps a "cheap" alternative to a house furnace? This difference is very little compared to the cost of replacing your scope because of a faulty power unit. Protect your investment. It is your baby.

As for the DC plug and AC adapter combo... it just scares me I guess. To think you have a big hole for fingers to get in or moisture. For $45 you can get the AC and for another $20 a 25' DC cord. So you would be spending $65 ($15 more than the combo job) for two dedicated supplies and an extra long DC cord to boot.

--------------------
Adam
12" LX200R
AT80mm piggyback
DSI Pro, DSI-C, LPI
Denver Astronomical Society
Brighton Astronomical Group


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