mbohan
member
Reged: 08/08/08
Posts: 35
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Well looks like I fell victim to an Ebay deal that wasn't all it was supposed to be. I was high bidder on a 12" LX200GPS, and paid up... Couple days later the scope arrived in "as new condition", as advertised, until I turned it on. Apparently the board or main board circuitry for the RA Drive is damaged. The optics are terific and mechanically everything else is fine. Unfortunately I paid a premium for this scope ($2600)and now it looks as though I'm going to eat several hundered for shipping to Meade + the $500 for the overhaul package.
The seller from Ebay indicated that the scope was fine when he shipped it (in working order), and he's going to "" file a claim with UPS for me. I don't see how UPS would be responsible for damage to circuitry -(anyone)?
All in all I suppose it's still not a bad deal considering the prices just went up, just a major inconvenience and lesson learned (the hard way).
Some advise for those Ebayers willing to chance high dollar items - it appears that some sellers are now posting videos of scopes working, etc - so those are the ones that are a lot safer. I never thought of this, but will be using / requesting it in the future on electronics goodies from Ebay.
I've been using the scope manually (like an undriven scope) and am very happy with the optics! Just wished this turned out better than it did (will).
Mike
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pdlpsher
member
Reged: 04/30/08
Posts: 32
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I'm sorry to hear this. You should check to see if you're covered under Paypal buyer protection. If not, try filing a claim against the buyer on false advertising via Ebay's own dispute resolution process. I've had success in the past on getting my money back this way.
If you believe the seller lied about the condition of the scope, you should not be afraid to leave him a negative feedback. I don't see how the circuit could be damaged by UPS.
The bottom line- you got ripped off big time. Sorry that I didn't provide you with comforting thoughts. I just hate sellers that are dishonest. I wish you a happy ending.
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JAT Observatory
Space Freak
Reged: 02/20/05
Posts: 5603
Loc: Eastern PA
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Depending on what the symptom is and assuming the seller is telling the truth the problem may be just a connection has come loose. It wouldn't be the first time. You may want to contact the seller and discuss you removing the base panel and checking all the connections.
I had a similar issue with my mount that I purchased from Astromart, In this case the wiring inside had been damaged by rodents. The seller claimed the scope worked when he shipped it. I guess i was possible if the mice got in the box after he packed it and got out before I opened it. In any case it cost be $100 dollars in parts from Bisque for me to do the repair. The good news was the seller paid the bill.
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-Marcus
The problem with free speech is even the stupid have a voice.
http://jatobservatory.org
12" LX200R on a Paramount ME
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mbohan
member
Reged: 08/08/08
Posts: 35
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Well - here's the rest of the story. Said seller had a 1 week return guarantee posted on the item, but it was just coincidence that he went off to ROTC training for three weeks right after he shipped the telescope out. Sounds a little too convenient to me. I haven't heard from him in another 4 days about this UPS "Claim" he's supposed to be filing. What I really think that is going on is he's dragging his feet, putting days between the initial sale date.
I'm going to file a complaint with Ebay today. That's a great idea about PayPal Buyer protection... Never thought of that one.
Mike
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Panza
sage
Reged: 09/26/07
Posts: 219
Loc: Lillehammer, Norway
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Paypal buyers protection is not worth the HTML page it is written on. I have filed at least 3 claims and they never pay up. Just so you know.
(url deleted to avoid damage to CNer computers)
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10" LX200R
Losmandy G-11
Astro-Physics 2" MaxBright Diagonal
Some TV Eyepieces
Canon 1D Mk2 and 5D with lots of lenses.
Edited by Joad (08/26/08 12:21 AM)
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Treehopper
sage
Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 215
Loc: Upstate NY
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My antivirus software (AVG) just blocked that website; said it detected active threats on the page. May want to be careful visiting there.
But yes, in any event, they (PayPal) do "vigorously inhale." 
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Tim
Third oak on the right, and straight on 'til morning.
Meade ETX-125PE (NGC7000 Edition)
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
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Skywatchr
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/03/06
Posts: 1536
Loc: North-Central Pa.
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I've never had a problem with PayPal's buyer protection. As long as all the details are given, and there is proof of what you are claiming, they usually pay out. But if the seller drains their PayPal account, there isn't any money for them to give back. Some items PayPal will actually "buy" to get your money back. It's rare, but it has happened.
But then again, I'm in the U.S., you're not. I don't know how that would work now with all the recent changes to PayPal.
Jeff
Quote:
Paypal buyers protection is not worth the HTML page it is written on. I have filed at least 3 claims and they never pay up. Just so you know.
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18" F/5 Home-Built Dob. with Mike Dudley Mirror
Highly Modified Meade DS-16 in Roll Off Roof
6" F/15 Brass w/ D&G Lens on DS-16 Mount
DS-10 10" F/4.5 Newtonian
LXD650, LX200 Classic
Orange Tube C11
DayStar 0.45 with multiple ERFs
Vixen ED80sf
11x80 Meade, 20x80 Celestron binocs (Japan Made).
Lots of Naglers and 8mm and 13mm Ethos.
Gadgets and parts everywhere.
And a Wife that loves it as much as me!
Edited by Joad (08/26/08 12:23 AM)
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Skywatchr
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/03/06
Posts: 1536
Loc: North-Central Pa.
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You have 45 days to file a dispute with PayPal. But the sooner you do, the better. Then escalate it to a claim. The seller then has (I think) 10 days to respond. If he fails to do so, you win your claim automatically.
Jeff
Quote:
Well - here's the rest of the story. Said seller had a 1 week return guarantee posted on the item, but it was just coincidence that he went off to ROTC training for three weeks right after he shipped the telescope out. Sounds a little too convenient to me. I haven't heard from him in another 4 days about this UPS "Claim" he's supposed to be filing. What I really think that is going on is he's dragging his feet, putting days between the initial sale date.
I'm going to file a complaint with Ebay today. That's a great idea about PayPal Buyer protection... Never thought of that one.
Mike
--------------------
18" F/5 Home-Built Dob. with Mike Dudley Mirror
Highly Modified Meade DS-16 in Roll Off Roof
6" F/15 Brass w/ D&G Lens on DS-16 Mount
DS-10 10" F/4.5 Newtonian
LXD650, LX200 Classic
Orange Tube C11
DayStar 0.45 with multiple ERFs
Vixen ED80sf
11x80 Meade, 20x80 Celestron binocs (Japan Made).
Lots of Naglers and 8mm and 13mm Ethos.
Gadgets and parts everywhere.
And a Wife that loves it as much as me!
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JAT Observatory
Space Freak
Reged: 02/20/05
Posts: 5603
Loc: Eastern PA
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Quote:
My antivirus software (AVG) just blocked that website; said it detected active threats on the page. May want to be careful visiting there.
That's because the site should have been http://paypalsucks.org/ not ".com"
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-Marcus
The problem with free speech is even the stupid have a voice.
http://jatobservatory.org
12" LX200R on a Paramount ME
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tincup01
member
Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 14
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I have bought one scope and sold two different ones on ebay...I went for the cash on collection approach and offered the same chance to the buyers  . I don't work for them, but I think for small items for scopes they work well and for big items you have to see them "up close and personal". That said I didn't know enough about an LX90 GPS to spot some small problems  , but I have corrected them inexpensively  (cross threaded screws, over-tightened allen screws and incorrectly refitted LNT unit) and now I have a very good scope  . Sometimes I have bought new and been even more disappointed at quality or performance. Celestron GT114 was not good enough optically  I have a Meade lightbridge, but I realised you had to spend extra monies on a better sighting arrangement, didn't get on with their deluxe sighter, also a shroud, a 12" flexible dew shield to improve contrast, plus some knobs for collimination of the primary and secondary plus a decent Cheshire, which all adds to the initial cost.
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mbohan
member
Reged: 08/08/08
Posts: 35
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I've filed the "Significantly Not as Described Despute" - I'll give him a week before I pull the trigger on a "PayPal Claim". I know if I had just sold a telescope over Ebay and had these problems I'd be all over it in trying to get to the bottom of it / rectify the situation.
For a scope that was suposedly "only out of the box on a couple of occasions", I checked all ports (Autoguide and RS232's) and all pins showed signs of scoring. It would seem to indicate that either this guy was attempting to attach it to a PC or was making an effort to get the scope to work with a different port after it failed to respond to the Autostar controller.
Dishonesty sucks...
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blatterjr
sage
Reged: 08/13/07
Posts: 263
Loc: Saint Petersburg Florida
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I don't want to stir the pot but playing devils advocate, most of what is here is conjecture.
Is it possible the item was damaged in shipping? Sure. Is it likely? Probably not unless there was box damage... but you can't always tell with electronics.
One issue here is that UPS will not react positively to a claim by the seller who does not have the item in dispute. I ship a lot of stuff (delicate and otherwise). Any time there is a damage claim, it is between UPS and the recipient, *never* the sender.
The recipient and the sender settle disputes in how the item was described and how it was received. Damage is a direct connection between the receiver and UPS.
It is my sincere hope that this was indeed an issue of damage and not deception. Use the protection mechanisms at your disposal... and do yourself a favor, do NOT let the seller control the "claim" with UPS.
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Robert
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Meade 12-LX200-ACF
BINO: Nikon AEX 10x50 6.5°
DSLR: Nikon D70+CCPro2
---
Saint Petersburg Florida
27°47'22.92"N , 82°43'09.48"W
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Panza
sage
Reged: 09/26/07
Posts: 219
Loc: Lillehammer, Norway
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Saying that Paypal usually pay out is not true IMNSHO. If there was real buyer protection Paypal would use their own funds when the sellers account is empty.
I have had proof and details every time but they never pay out.
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10" LX200R
Losmandy G-11
Astro-Physics 2" MaxBright Diagonal
Some TV Eyepieces
Canon 1D Mk2 and 5D with lots of lenses.
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mbohan
member
Reged: 08/08/08
Posts: 35
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blatterjr - thanks for the advise. I'll attempt contact with him again about the claim with UPS - I haven't heard from him weather he filed or not - that's what's escalated my suspicions... Here's a guy with 125+ 100% positive feedbacks on Ebay but for some reason he can't maintain contact with the buyer (me) of a problematic, high dollar item.
Do you know what kind of time-frame UPS has on claims? I have the tracking #'s for said packages, maybe I'll call UPS and see for myself. Again - the scope was shipped in the original packaging (factory foam and inserts, original meade box, and double box). There was not one tear or puncture in any of the cardboard! I suppose the fact that it is so large that it has to be placed on a hand truck might have something to do with it.
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pdlpsher
member
Reged: 04/30/08
Posts: 32
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This is what I know based on facts from my own past experiences (although I don't know if they changed policy since then). UPS will only deal with the party that directly paid UPS for the shipping charge. In other words, unless the package recipient directly paid UPS, only the shipper can file a claim. This may sound lame, but this was probably aimed at reducing claim fraud. As for the Paypal buyer protection, Paypal will refund the buyer even if the seller's account is empty. This is a fact and it makes good sense.
When I use Paypal I always use the credit card payment option. I figure this gives me an extra layer of buyer protection in case something goes wrong, at no cost to me. Paypal makes it harder to the use the credit card payment as you need to do a few extra mouse clicks. The default payment option cannot be set to a credit card.
Good luck and keep us updated on the final resolution.
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MartyT
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/28/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Kansas City
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PayPal's "protection" policy only guarantees that you're going to receive an item, it does not apply to the condition of the item or whether the seller made false claims. As long as you received it, PayPal will just tell you to go get bent. You'll find out about this at the end of their "dispute" process - you file the dispute providing all kinds of detials, wait for the buyer to respond, esclate the claim and their decision is always the same: Tough luck buddy.
Maybe eBay will help you out, or maybe your credit card company will help you out (you *did* pay with your credit card and not directly from your bank account, right??? )
--------------------
Celestron CGE / C-11 (CGE-1100)
Megrez 90 FD APO / 0.8x FR/FF III
QHY8
Modified Canon 350D (Baader UV/IR Filter)
DSI Pro (guider), SPC900NC
ETX-125AT
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Astronomical Society of Kansas City
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Skywatchr
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/03/06
Posts: 1536
Loc: North-Central Pa.
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WRONG! PayPal has on many occasions given the buyer their full refund because of the item "Not as Advertised". They buyers make out a lot better than the sellers in this respect. I myself had buyers lie to PayPal and get their full refund. And when I got the items back, there was absolutely nothing wrong with them! PayPal, and eBay, both cater to the buyers as "victims" no matter what. The seller has to PROVE there is nothing wrong with the item. And guess what? There is no way to since they no longer HAVE the item!
That is my experience with PayPal as a seller. As a buyer, I have received numerous refunds. So yeah, he'll get a refund. I'm sure of it.
Jeff
Quote:
PayPal's "protection" policy only guarantees that you're going to receive an item, it does not apply to the condition of the item or whether the seller made false claims. As long as you received it, PayPal will just tell you to go get bent. You'll find out about this at the end of their "dispute" process - you file the dispute providing all kinds of detials, wait for the buyer to respond, esclate the claim and their decision is always the same: Tough luck buddy.
Maybe eBay will help you out, or maybe your credit card company will help you out (you *did* pay with your credit card and not directly from your bank account, right??? )
--------------------
18" F/5 Home-Built Dob. with Mike Dudley Mirror
Highly Modified Meade DS-16 in Roll Off Roof
6" F/15 Brass w/ D&G Lens on DS-16 Mount
DS-10 10" F/4.5 Newtonian
LXD650, LX200 Classic
Orange Tube C11
DayStar 0.45 with multiple ERFs
Vixen ED80sf
11x80 Meade, 20x80 Celestron binocs (Japan Made).
Lots of Naglers and 8mm and 13mm Ethos.
Gadgets and parts everywhere.
And a Wife that loves it as much as me!
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blatterjr
sage
Reged: 08/13/07
Posts: 263
Loc: Saint Petersburg Florida
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Quote:
This is what I know based on facts from my own past experiences (although I don't know if they changed policy since then). UPS will only deal with the party that directly paid UPS for the shipping charge. In other words, unless the package recipient directly paid UPS, only the shipper can file a claim. This may sound lame, but this was probably aimed at reducing claim fraud. As for the Paypal buyer protection, Paypal will refund the buyer even if the seller's account is empty. This is a fact and it makes good sense.
When I use Paypal I always use the credit card payment option. I figure this gives me an extra layer of buyer protection in case something goes wrong, at no cost to me. Paypal makes it harder to the use the credit card payment as you need to do a few extra mouse clicks. The default payment option cannot be set to a credit card.
Good luck and keep us updated on the final resolution.
I don't mean to contradict, but what you stated runs contrary to UPS policy. Read my post (in case you have not). The person with the property must file the claim in order to get proper and expedited response from UPS.
My mother, sweet grey haired lady that she is, is a supervisor in the claims management department at UPS in Buffalo New York. With all the items I've shipped in my days, we've had many a conversation on how issues are handled. It starts and ends with the property in question... issues of fraud are between the buyer/seller/financial group and not UPS. YMMV.
--------------------
Robert
---------------------
Meade 12-LX200-ACF
BINO: Nikon AEX 10x50 6.5°
DSLR: Nikon D70+CCPro2
---
Saint Petersburg Florida
27°47'22.92"N , 82°43'09.48"W
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mbohan
member
Reged: 08/08/08
Posts: 35
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Well I went ahead and filed a PayPal Claim today. The seller hasn't provided me any information concerning a "UPS Claim", or "how he might be able to help" (IE troubleshoot).
Yeah - I did use a credit card - I never thought of calling my card company for a backup on protection against a fraud sale like this. Maybe I need to call and find out about that too.
Someone indicated here that there is a period of 10 days for PayPal to make a decision?
Thanks for all the input guys!
MPB
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Taylor
sage
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 250
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Oh man, Credit Card companies are your best friend concerning a situation like this.
I got screwed out of shipping money once on eBay, paid up for overnight shipping, instead got basic shipping, printed off all my emails w/ the seller and receipts, mailed them to Visa, and it took awhile but they refunded the difference.
Credit Card companies do everything they can to make a bad situation right if you provide sufficient evidence, it is a slow process but they make it fair.
From the sounds of how this jerk is not working with you, I would almost consider just doing a chargeback on the entire purchase price of the scope, there is no way he did not know that he was about to screw you over, if he thought he could get away with this he had a chargeback coming.
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Nextar 8" GPS Starbright XLT
WO EZ-Touch Gen 2 on Walnut tripod
Celestron C6 SCT
TheSky 6 Pro, MaximDL 5 Pro
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