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Applal
sage


Reged: 01/23/06
Posts: 369
Loc: Appleton, WI
2 Concerns About Atlas new
      #2591464 - 08/19/08 07:34 PM

Evenin' folks! I currently enjoy the use of a CG-5 ASGT, a really fine performer under both my OTAs, but I have for some time now been seriously considering buying the Atlas mount to better handle my larger OTA (and to be able to have both functioning at the same time!)
There are only two things causing me to drag my feet on this one (well, 3 if you count fear of a new model release immediately after purchase... )

1st concern: The tripod. From everything I've been able to glean noodling around on the internet, it's the same tripod as the CG5. For the difference in price, I would have expected something a tad more substantial.

2nd concern: The counterweight shaft. Again, I believe it to be the same dimension as the CG5, and again, I would have expected a mount with the weight rating the Atlas has to have a beefier counterweight shaft, although being able to share counterweights might be nice.

Of the two, I am more concerned about the counterweight shaft thickness. Most everyone I read about seems to be pleased with the Atlas, so maybe my concerns are unfounded, and perhaps with a little machining, I could modify the mount to my liking.

Any Atlas users out there care to weigh in on these issues?

I appreciate your time!

--------------------
Alan



"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
--Bertrand Russell


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JakeJ
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/31/04
Posts: 1520
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Applal]
      #2591477 - 08/19/08 07:41 PM

Hi Alan -

I used to own an Atlas. The CW shaft was just fine - don't worry about it. The tripod is the weak part of the Atlas. It works, but yes, you might want a better one. I used to use mine on a Meade SCT tripod - it made a huge difference.

--------------------
12.5" Discovery TD
Vixen ED103S

...and way too many eypieces to list!


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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1135
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Applal]
      #2591512 - 08/19/08 07:52 PM

According to the Orion website, the Atlas has 18mm diam. counterweight shaft and the Celestron ASGT has 20mm diam. shaft!

--------------------
George
--------------
LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom
2" GSO ED barlow, Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese Scopes, Chinese Eyepieces, Chinese Wife, Love them all!


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kaaikop
sage
*****

Reged: 07/13/08
Posts: 459
Loc: Ste-Therese, Canada
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: JakeJ]
      #2591523 - 08/19/08 07:58 PM

I had both, the CG5-GT and then switched to EQ-6 Pro (same as Atlas). A world of difference.
The Atlas is a beast. Yes the tripod is the same, but I think it's up to the job.
If you find it too lightweight, you can always fill it with leadshots...
Personally, I find it heavy enough as it is, thank you very much!

The CW shaft can be slided in after use, which is a nice feature,
and I do use the extra counterweights that I had bought for the CG5 (they fit just the same).
You also get the polar scope (at least with the go-to), which is a very nice feature.

For me, I never looked back, I had only problems with the CG5.
For the price, I think it's the best mount you can find by far.

--------------------
Benoit, RASC Montreal

-C 9.25XLT on EQ6 Pro / ED80SF on Portamount
-Plossls, Radians, Naglers, LVW's & Orthos.
-a pair of 7x50's


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RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 796
Loc: Virginia
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Applal]
      #2591643 - 08/19/08 09:00 PM

Quote:

Of the two, I am more concerned about the counterweight shaft thickness. Most everyone I read about seems to be pleased with the Atlas, so maybe my concerns are unfounded, and perhaps with a little machining, I could modify the mount to my liking.




I don't know what OTAs you have or are planning to use. My Atlas (on the stock tripod) worked great with my C925 and was okay with the C11 - I'm a visual observer. I'm finicky about the least little jiggle, so I bought the A-P Portable Pier and removed all doubt.

Tim Ray (Telescope Stability Systems) sells super solid tripods for the Atlas. He will also machine an adapter to allow you to use a 1.25" counterweight shaft. You could then load up with some heavy weights if necessary.

For me, it takes three 11 pound weights to balance my C11 SCT and the stock Atlas shaft handles that load easily.

Take care,

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.

"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT "Time Machine II"
Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2

GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier


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Applal
sage


Reged: 01/23/06
Posts: 369
Loc: Appleton, WI
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: RAKing]
      #2591690 - 08/19/08 09:31 PM

Thank you all for your quick and thoughtful replies! I will be mounting a Meade 10" f6.3 on the Atlas. I know the mount can handle it. Just concerned about, what to me are, weak points in the design.

The idea of using a portable pier for increased stability is intriquing, but can they be used on unpaved (even grassy) surfaces? And then.... how to buy the head without the tripod... I hate spending money twice.

Looks like I'll have to do a little checking into Telescope Stability Systems.

--------------------
Alan



"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
--Bertrand Russell


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Eddgie
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/01/06
Posts: 1719
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Applal]
      #2591826 - 08/19/08 10:39 PM

Much depends on the telescope you intend to use it with. For a 10" or 11" SCT or for a Newt, I think the tripod will be fine because for these scopes, you can use the mount with the tripod legs in low positions.

If you are mounting a big refractor (6" Achromat) where the legs need to be fully extended, as you have surmised, it will not be much better than the CG5. The legs simply flex to much when fully extended. My opinion only, but I used an Atlas with a 6" f/9 ED scope and it was barely acceptable. And mostly, I say taht because ofter just buying it new for the OTA, I didn't have much CHOICE but to say that it was acceptable.

But when I recently bought another 6" APO, I went with a larger mount.

So, depends on the scope I think. My impression is that it CAN carry more than the CG5, but it is not in the same class as the CGE or G11.

--------------------
Celestron C14, CGE (Big Al)
Astro-Physics 6" f/8 (Buffy)
Televue 101 (No name, but I call it my Widescreen HD Space TV)

The night sky is my mistress. She seduces me away from all other lovers.


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luu5
member


Reged: 08/07/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Duluth, GA
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Eddgie]
      #2593759 - 08/20/08 06:42 PM

Quote:

But when I recently bought another 6" APO, I went with a larger mount.




But was this because of the head or the tripod?

--------------------
10" DIY Dob, SW80ED, Lidl 70/700, TS 25x80


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Bill Cowles
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/16/06
Posts: 638
Loc: Utah
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: kaaikop]
      #2593853 - 08/20/08 07:27 PM Attachment (46 downloads)

I totally agree, and you forgot how quiet they are compared to the CG-5. Here is a 5" WO on an EQ-6 and a C6-R on an Atlas, both with extensions.

Bill

--------------------
Lunt LS60TS50DS/B1200/FT (on order)
TV Gensis/Solarmax 60 filter
PST DS/Herschel Wedge/C4-R
C6-R /Atlas Goto/Moonlite CF2
12" LightBridge/Round Table
MCHP/8" Orion OTA


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Al Canarelli
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/06/07
Posts: 1531
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #2594774 - 08/21/08 08:37 AM

I don't know too much about the Atlas but am considering buying one. I've heard of one complaint repeated several times concerning the Atlas tripod and wonder if this is a real problem: The legs seem to stick...not move easily when adjusting. The complaint is that the tubing is too thin and very easily distorts if clamped with too much pressure. Is this true?

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Charlie HeinModerator
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6534
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #2594850 - 08/21/08 09:21 AM

Quote:

I don't know too much about the Atlas but am considering buying one. I've heard of one complaint repeated several times concerning the Atlas tripod and wonder if this is a real problem: The legs seem to stick...not move easily when adjusting. The complaint is that the tubing is too thin and very easily distorts if clamped with too much pressure. Is this true?




Yes, you can deform the legs and cause this problem if you crank down too hard on the locks. That said, I've had mine for like 5 years and I haven't damaged it yet.

Charlie

--------------------

Weston CSC:


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Fabio Papa
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/01/05
Posts: 1096
Loc: Piacenza, Italy
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #2594954 - 08/21/08 10:12 AM

Yeah, me too. I have it since some years and the tripod is still as new. You really have to apply some force to deform the legs.

Another thing that I keep on suggesting is to chose your dealer wisely. Make sure you have the right to have the mount replaced in case of defects without troubles, or better have them check your mount before shipping. That's because its still a chinese product, after all, and QC isn't that good. A lemon can always happen, so it's better to have the mount checked or at least be able to swap it quickly.

--------------------
Fabio Papa
Celestron C8 F/10
Vixen ED81SWT F/7.7
Orion Atlas EQ-G
Gruppo Astrofili di Piacenza


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BluewaterObserva
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Fabio Papa]
      #2594985 - 08/21/08 10:26 AM

Your only real option is move up quite a bit cost wise.

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Applal
sage


Reged: 01/23/06
Posts: 369
Loc: Appleton, WI
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: BluewaterObserva]
      #2595297 - 08/21/08 01:19 PM

I'm really enjoying everyones opinions! Loved the Telescope Stability Systems counterweight shaft upgrade, and will probably go with that.

Then there's the matter of the T-pod legs (especially the lowers), where, I think, I may order some heavywall aluminum tubing and replace the lower leg sections with that, eliminating the deformation potential and adding a little mass down low. That'll be a winter project for certain!

Overall though, the more I look at and read about this mount, the more certain I want one!

Again, thanks to all!

--------------------
Alan



"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
--Bertrand Russell


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RogerRZ
Whatta you lookin' at?
*****

Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 2122
Loc: West Collette, NB, Canada
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: Applal]
      #2596429 - 08/22/08 10:13 AM

IMO, the weak point on the EQ6 is the Vixen-type saddle. I had a C11 on mine, and it jiggled just as much as it did on my HEQ5.

I fixed this problem by installing ADM's excellent Losmandy type saddle.

--------------------
-Roger Pitre-


1 X 7 binocular
Meade 2080 LX10
5" Celestron SCT
Skywatcher Equinox 66
Starblast OTA


EQ6 Pro mount (spiffed up with ADM stuff)

8X42 Bushnell binos (pretty decent for 25$)
Canon Rebel XT (AKA 350D)
Starshoot autoguider

Tolerant Spousal Unit (AKA The Lovely Mrs. RogerRZ)


----------AJP Observatory----------


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core
super member
*****

Reged: 02/23/08
Posts: 116
Loc: Mostly in Norman, OK
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: RogerRZ]
      #2597151 - 08/22/08 05:59 PM

Is anyone using the Atlas on a pier? I'm looking at the Antares pier specifically (I suppose the atlas shares the same mounting plate with EQ-5?) for semi-permanent installation, loading should be no more than 30lb.

--------------------
~Peter~


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RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 796
Loc: Virginia
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas new [Re: core]
      #2597204 - 08/22/08 06:30 PM

Quote:

Is anyone using the Atlas on a pier? I'm looking at the Antares pier specifically (I suppose the atlas shares the same mounting plate with EQ-5?) for semi-permanent installation, loading should be no more than 30lb.




I use my Atlas on an Astro-Physics 6" Portable Pier. I had a custom adapter made and it works great.

IIRC, the Atlas does not share the same mounting plate as the EQ-5. I think there are some dimensional differences with the center studs, so you might have to do some mods, but the Atlas should work fine with the 4 inch Antares pier.

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.

"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT "Time Machine II"
Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2

GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier


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groz
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/14/07
Posts: 540
Loc: Duncan, BC
Re: 2 Concerns About Atlas [Re: Fabio Papa]
      #2597275 - 08/22/08 07:11 PM

Quote:


Another thing that I keep on suggesting is to chose your dealer wisely. Make sure you have the right to have the mount replaced in case of defects without troubles, or better have them check your mount before shipping. That's because its still a chinese product, after all, and QC isn't that good. A lemon can always happen, so it's better to have the mount checked or at least be able to swap it quickly.





I'll pipe up on this QC issue. Over the last 8 months I've purchased 2 of the 'chinese mounts'. In january we bought the Skywatcher EQ6-Pro, and this week we grabbed the HEQ5-Pro to finish the mounts for 'his and hers' astrophotography setups. Our first mount was the Skywatcher EQ3 with synscan, purchased about 18 months ago.

In all fairness, the EQ3 we purchased came from a telescope store in Vancouver, and, it was a prototype eval unit for the EQ3 synscan package, a pre-release sample. We had some issues with it over time, but at the beginning of July we bumped into the skywatcher technical folks at a star party. I asked them questions about it, they immediately came over and looked at the system in detail. They concluded, the store had mixed up a couple components between the EQ3 demo and the EQ5 demo, and fixed it on the spot (after midnite, under an overcast sky on the scope field at a star party). Color me impressed. Since then, the EQ3 goto system has been basically flawless, and the mount itself lives up to expectations, which are not nearly as high as those for the EQ6. My biggest complaint with the EQ3 is backlash, it's got more than we want, and, it's not up to carrying the load we eventually want to place on the second mount, hence a recent upgrade.

When we bought the EQ6-Pro in January, it arrived, I assembled it, and the experience went along this line.

- Polar scope was perfectly aligned with the axis out of the box.
- Everything was present and accounted for in the box.
- Mount fired up, just worked, and has been trouble free ever since.
- I have measured this mount, PE is 11 arcseconds peak to peak. That's far superior to the published tolerances for the mount, and kind of hard to argue with considering its a $1500 mount.
- Using the ZS80 (585mm focal length) and the Nikon D-50, the EQ6 can bang off 2 minute exposures all night, without guiding, and we get 90% or higher ratio of keepers. Ratio is slightly lower on 3 minute exposures.
- With an autoguider running, I can bang off 6 minute exposures non stop with this setup using a 1540mm fl scope, and the keeper ratio runs awful close to 100%.

We got the HEQ5-Pro earlier this week. It's only been out under a night sky once, for an hour and a half last nite. Initial impressions so far, it's lived up to the high expectations set by our EQ6-Pro. Like the earlier one, this one came out of the box with the polar scope perfectly aligned. First setup took less than 5 minutes. It's _slightly_ louder than the EQ6, but not enough to be really noticeable. One of the hand paddle keys is a bit sticky, but, I'm confident that'll wear in after a couple of nites out, and no longer be an issue. If it doesn't, the dealer we bought it from will be at the star party we are attending next weekend, and has already offered to swap it out for a replacement if the problem continues. I haven't had a chance yet to do any PE measurements on it, but may get the chance this weekend, if we get any clear sky.

I cant disagree with 'choose your dealer' to make sure you are working with somebody that'll go good on any problematic equipment, but, I dont think the QC on those mounts is as bad as many try imply here on CN. At least our experience with the Skywatcher -Pro series suggests the QC is pretty good on those. Your mileage may vary.

Then again, I guess it's also possible, there is actually a difference between the QC on the white paint models vs that on the black paint models.


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