Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2560
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
That said, I can't help but be aware that many (most?) of the folks here completed their M lists long ago, and one feels humble about adding one's own mite. And with most questions already answered by the excellent CN resources, it leaves one a little tongue-tied.
You could be correct that MANY have completed their M list....but I am NOT one of them. I don't think I am even 1/2 of the way thru yet.
I have two books devoted to the M objects alone and binoculars up to 25X100 so it's not for a lack of equipment....it's a fact of life from my magnitude 4.5 backyard and many similar suburba locations. My friend and I used his Celestron NextStar 8 goto scope from my yard. Easy M objects such as M81/82 are barely visible in his 8 in SCT....but that's does not deter me from using and enjoying my binos every chance I get.
The beauty of our hobby is that we can enjoy it at so many different levels. The format of this CN forum allows us to share our experience and preserve the information for others....We even get to know other forum members as real people with many different interests besides astronomy and optics......
I think our founder is a SAINT! ;-))
Erik D
Edited by EdZ (11/24/04 01:31 PM)
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12588
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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It might be an interesting exercise to go back through my several years of log books to see how many of the M objects I have seen. I honestly don't know. I do know I have not seen all of them. In fact after years of trying, just recently for the first time I spotted M74 and that was with the BT100. I believe there must be a few M galaxies in Virgo that I may not have recorded yet. And I think there may be a few M objects in Sagitarius that I haven't seen.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (11/24/04 01:36 PM)
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PRESTON
super member
Reged: 10/28/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Haldimand, Ontario, Canada
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Is it possible to observe M1 (Crab Nebula) in binoculars? I have tried a few times, but am unsucessful with my 10x50's. I think I see a star like point of light which could be M1, but cannot differentiate it from the surrounding stars.
Also, are any of the globular clusters visible in binoculars? If so, how much deal can you expect to see?
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12588
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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M1 is possible in binoculars, but sky conditions will make a considerable difference. In 12x50s I was able to see it as non-stellar in mag 5.6-5.7 skies but could not see it at all in mag 5.0 skies.
The brighter globular clusters are apparent even in 8x or 10x binoculars. They will appear obviously nonstellar. Try M13,M5,M15,M3,M10,M22. You could only just suspect some resolution at the very edges with 25x100s. Resolution of globulars (maybe with the exception of M22) needs more like 30x to 35x in a binocular telescope.
See the post on "What can be seen in different sizes binoculars" referenced from the "best of" threads for more info.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (11/24/04 02:08 PM)
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2560
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Visibility of many M objects depends on your local sky conditon. I saw M1 the firts time several years ago thru my 20X80s.(~mag 4.5 sky). It looks more like a white/grey diffused cotton ball, no colors at all. (many M nebulas look like diffued cotton). M27 is another nebula( Planetary) that's easily visible in binoculars. M 13, M15 are two globulars that should be visible with small binos.
It does help to have bigger 15X70 or 20X80 binos to see them from light polluited location. It's easier to see M objects with smaller 10X42/50s once you have seen them thru bigger binos.....you'll know what to look for.
"The Messier Objects" book by Stephen J O'Meara is very helpful because it has both pencil sketch and B & W photos of each M object. I also enjoy reading his descriptions of each. However, Stephen O was observing from very dark locations and has eagle vision very few observers can match. I need much bigger objectives to see what he can see with 50mm binos.
I think we need to start a new thread if we want to continue discussion of Binocular M objects.......
Erik D
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33072
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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I caught M-27 with my 11x56's - it surprised me how easy it was. I was swaping back and forth between one of my scopes and the binos.
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  Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Bandoblue
sage
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Rockville, MD
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Quote:
Quote:
That said, I can't help but be aware that many (most?) of the folks here completed their M lists long ago,
You could be correct that MANY have completed their M list....but I am NOT one of them. I don't think I am even 1/2 of the way thru yet.
Good topic, I'm glad it got split off. I should have been more precise in my original post--I guess I was thinking more of something like the Astonomical League's binocular Messier certificate (any 50 M objects) than actually doing every last one in binos. That would be an accomplishment.
For what it's worth, after 5 months my binocular M object list so far includes:
M11-Wild Ducks in Scutum
M13-Great Cluster in Hercules
M22-large Globular in Sagittarius
M29-Open cluster in Cyngus (many poo poo this sparse open cluster, but I actually quite like it--like a tiny Pleiades)
M31-Andromeda Galaxy
M34–Open Cluster in Perseus
M42–Great Nebula in Orion (wow!)
M45–Pleiades in Taurus (what can one say--the classic bino target for a reason)
M52-dense open cluster in Cassiopeia
M103–Open cluster in Cassiopeia
All observed with 15x70 Skymasters from light-polluted suburban skies in Rockville, MD, Bortle class 7 or 8, limiting mag 4.5, maybe 5 on a good night.
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Erik Ledbetter
TV-102 on Gibraltar
Orion 127 on CG4
Orion ShortTube 80
16x70 FMT-SX on P-mount
8x42 Nikon Monarchs
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10155
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< many poo poo this sparse open cluster >
Erik, I can never understand the kind of person who "poo -poos" something like an open cluster.
To me ,it's like someone saying the rocky mountain range is ugly , or the Artic Ocean is over rated.
I think that people who are "snobbish" about celestial objects and observations are even less desireable than those who are snobbish about optical instruments -- but you are probably better off staying away from both.
I went out with my 15 x 70 binoculars for a little while last night. Hand -held.
It was completely overcast , but I got a momentary glimpse of the Moon through the clouds.
Other "M objects" I spotted included a Mrs.Cooper from across the road , a Mr.Ingham who was on his way out to the local pub , a Mitshibishi 4 -wheel drive vehicle ( it was too dark to see the model name )two other Motor cars , Mist in the Middle distance and a neighbour's cat called Minx.
I then came indoors and watched Manchester United on the T.V. They were involved in a football Match and it was the 1000th game in which the same Manager has been in charge of the team.
Next time I go to one of my favourite vantage points on a clear day , I will note down EVERYTHING I see beginning with the letter M.
Regards , Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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mirage
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 693
Loc: central texas
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Quote:
Good topic, I'm glad it got split off. I should have been more precise in my original post--I guess I was thinking more of something like the Astonomical League's binocular Messier certificate (any 50 M objects) than actually doing every last one in binos. That would be an accomplishment.
I've contemplated getting an at-large Astronomical League membership for that very reason. I'm not so much interested in 'checking off' observing targets or collecting certificates (I prefer much more freeform and unstructured observing to take me wherever inspiration strikes), but AL's Binocular Messier, Deep-Sky Binocular, Urban Observing, and similar clubs I think might be valuable references in their own right. I'm not sure if they include any substantial published material, however.
-digs around the AL website-
Nope, no printed reference guides on a club-by-club basis seem extant. Their target lists, however, are on the web:
Binocular Messier Targets, 20-50mm
Binocular Messier Targets, 56-80mm
Messier Reference
Deep-Sky Binocular Targets, 50-80mm
Southern Skies Binocular Targets, 50-80mm
Those are all great lists!
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imber stellarum 10x50 binoculars
architectural advisor
friends of the austin planetarium
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mirage
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 693
Loc: central texas
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Quote:
Next time I go to one of my favourite vantage points on a clear day , I will note down EVERYTHING I see beginning with the letter M.
 
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imber stellarum 10x50 binoculars
architectural advisor
friends of the austin planetarium
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I have only used my new 15x70s from a reasonably light polluted site 30m west of London and I could see M1. It wasn't particularly obvious but with averted vision and some time at the eyepiece it is distinct from the charcoal grey sky I have to enjoy. For reference, it was not visible in my 7x35s.
Kenny, I was vaguely in your area last weekend. My climbing club had a xmas meet near Patterdale. Good site for some observing with next to no light pollution although the mountains do a good job of blocking the sky!
Mark
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Dave LoPresti
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/25/03
Posts: 1982
Loc: Preston, Connecticut
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Erik, M44, M67, and M68 are waiting for you. You just need to get out of bed a little early  . Check out Saturn for an extra treat. 
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Dave L
Meade 10" SCT
TEC 140 SN291
Coronado SolarMax 90mm <.5Ĺ
WO 80mm ZSFD (10th Ann. red)
Tele Vue Pronto
Coronado PST
Canon 18x50 IS
 Wonderful wife 
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jdickson
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/26/04
Posts: 685
Loc: Desert Hot Springs, Ca
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M45 (Pleides) is easy and satisfying right now. M31 also. Just sweeping through Cassiopeia and Cygnus is great fun.
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Joe
10" f5 ATM dob, 20x80 p-mount binos.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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The Double Cluster in Perseus, while not a Messier Object (and off the topic), is a real treat.
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HfxObserver
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/12/04
Posts: 624
Loc: Waterloo ON, Canada
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From my dark sky site I'm attempting to observe all the Messier Objects with an old pair of 10X50 Bushnells. I arrived out at the site one fine evening to find I'd forgotten the adapter to mount my scope so I started hunting M's with the binos. I was able to get most of the late summer M's in Sag. as well as M81/82, M74,M101,M51, M33,M13,M92,M15,M2(the last 5 naked eye) and M31,32,110 looked like that photo by Robert Gendler.
The next time out I only took the binos and tracked down M6/7, M80,M4,M62,,M55,M30, M76,M1,M74,M45 but no neb. M77 was elusive I'll have to wait for it to get higher, then I went onto M34-38, M42/43, M78, M72/27, M72/73. I'm hoping to get one more night out there before the snow to nab the 6h-->12hr RA M's. If I'm able to do that then I can get to the Virgo M's in the Spring when the snow melts. I observed the Virgo M's before under a Mag 6 sky but from the darker site I should be able to sweep through them pretty quick
-Chris
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Chris
7X50 Vixen,22X100 Antares
80mm William Optics Megrez II ED
Santel MK6
Borg 125SD f6 (Pentax/Oasis version)
Tak-Lapides
Pentax XW's 40,20,14,10,3.5 3.8XP, Speers 5-8, 30mm Widescan III
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2560
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Hi Chris,
Welcome to the CN Bino forum. That's a pretty impressive list of M objects with a pair of Bushnell 10X50s. Could you tell us where you are observing from and what's the estimated naked eye magnitude of you DARK sky site? Thanks.
Erik D
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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At the VicSouth Star Party in Nhill, Victoria, Australia (lat. -36) I was able to easily catch M1 in my 20x80 binoculars hand-held. Using my 10x30 Canon IS Stabilisers - no chance.
Wonder how many M objects you can pick up with your run of the mill 7x50s at your location.
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 6290
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
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By 1996 I had logged 80 Messier objects with binoculars. I never bothered to send in for the AL award, however.
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12588
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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No doubt this is an impressive list, but what stands out more than any other is M74. I've been seriously observing with binoculars for many years and I now own more than 20 binoculars including 12x50 Nikon SE, 10x70 Fujinon and 16x70 Fujinon. In my darkest skies, none of those binoculars can see M74. Also tried in two different 20x80s a 22x100 and a 25x100 and none of those can see M74. The only instrument with which I have ever seen M74 is the Oberwerk Binocular Telescope BT100, in mag 5.5 skies. The BT100 can see approximately 2 magnitudes fainter than a pair of 10x50s. While using a pair of 26mm TV plossls, I found M74, with great difficulty. I switched to a 20mm TV plossl for 31x100 and I was still able to very faintly see it, but it would disappear from view as easily as it would appear and it was seen only with averted vision.
I'd be interested in hearing in what kind of conditions you were able to observe M74 with a pair of 10x50s.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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EdZ, The next time I am in rural northern NH, which will be around Christmas, I'll look for M74 with the 24mm EPs. I believe I can do it, however the full moon will pose a problem.
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