redsquash
super member
Reged: 08/05/08
Loc: Tennant Creek Australia
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Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
#2612928 - 08/30/08 03:01 AM
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How well do Dobsons compare to Newtonain reflectors of the same price?
DO you get more bang for your buck with one or the other?
I have a Vixen r130 f/5 650mm and would be interested to be able to match it with a dobson model with a similar price including mount.
It would seem for short or tall people dobson would tend to be uncomfortable. I say that , having never being physically near a dobson
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isramirez
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/04/05
Loc: Mexico City
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: redsquash]
#2613096 - 08/30/08 08:55 AM
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deleted by isramirez
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Jason B
My wife says I am Obsessed...
Reged: 06/21/04
Loc: Mid-Michigan
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: redsquash]
#2613119 - 08/30/08 09:28 AM
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Quote:
How well do Dobsons compare to Newtonain reflectors of the same price?
DO you get more bang for your buck with one or the other?
I have a Vixen r130 f/5 650mm and would be interested to be able to match it with a dobson model with a similar price including mount.
It would seem for short or tall people dobson would tend to be uncomfortable. I say that , having never being physically near a dobson
First off, a dobson is just the style of mount. It is a Newtonian Reflector as well. For what you paid for your R130 (depending on the mount of course), in all liklihood you could get a 8" or even 10" dob. There are lot's of options out there in that size range. Orion's XT classic series come to mind or for a little more you can get the Intelliscope version with the push to object locator. Check out www.telescope.com.
BTW, a 22mm Vixen LVW would be a nice next step in your eyepiece collection.
Edited by Jason B (08/30/08 09:34 AM)
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redsquash
super member
Reged: 08/05/08
Loc: Tennant Creek Australia
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: Jason B]
#2613730 - 08/30/08 03:12 PM
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Thanks Jason .
So I have a 5 inch mirror and I can get about a 9inch dob on the price I paid, but I know they come in 8and 10 inch.
My next question is, with the greater light catching ability of the dobson,at the same purchase price, is the dobson automatically going to give me superior observation ability if I have the same eyepieces with both scopes.
Given the outlay is between $400 to $700 dollars I wouldn't expect the mirror differences to be stupendous given that money needs to be placed in The other components of the scope as well .
Let me Put it another way.
If I spend $600 on a normal tripod newtonian reflector and $600 on a dobson, would I expect about to have 20 % better observation ability with a Dobson.
A 5inch meade and a 5 inch Takahashi will yield very different results because of the dollars spent. 
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Jason B
My wife says I am Obsessed...
Reged: 06/21/04
Loc: Mid-Michigan
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: redsquash]
#2613883 - 08/30/08 04:48 PM
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It won't so much be a quality difference as it would just pure size. The Orion 10" and the Vixen 5" actually have mirrors made by the same company. So you get the same quality with twice as much aperture. The reason for the equal price is the much larger glass on a simpler mount. Hope this helps....
BTW, I would pick the dob....
Jason
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redsquash
super member
Reged: 08/05/08
Loc: Tennant Creek Australia
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: Jason B]
#2614434 - 08/31/08 12:22 AM
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The 2 mounts are completely different .
People pay a lot of money for a good mount.
Does a simpler mount as JASON describes mean the dobson is a less effective mount or are the mounts as equally effective for the dollars spent.
if there is a significant difference , why are the dobsons not as popular as the tripod type.
Is there a drawback when imagining some objects?
If so why is that?
I don't see that mirrors made by the same company is very relevant as I imagine you can polish and vary the quality significantly depending on the mirror model.
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.5400 feet
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: redsquash]
#2614532 - 08/31/08 02:11 AM
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My turn,Jason
Yes the 2 mounts are different. An EQ mount and the alt/az(altitude and azimuth) principal of a Dob are no more or less effective than one another for casual viewing IMO. The dob is a simple newtonian using the alt/az design. For me it is one of convinience. An EQ mount using a similar newtonian tube has the ability to use driven motors on it's 2 main axes in the right ascension and declinations modes for tracking a celestial target and more expensive and elaborate versions have the capability to find an object for you. The overall size of an EQ mounted 8 or 10 reflector is quite large in size. A 10 inch Dob weighs less and takes up less floor space. The Dob is simpler to get into operation.
In it's rawest form the Dobsonian newt isn't a driven mount and isn't a viable imaging platform. For the EQ driven newtonian to be a worthy imaging system it must feature an extremely steady mount,resulting in a large and expensive investment of money. As a newcomer I would not worry about trying to even go down the path of astrophotography.
What exactly is the mount your present telescope has? What size aperture is it that you are looking to upgrade to? What is your bottom line budget for a complete telescope?
Edited by KWB (08/31/08 02:20 AM)
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Starkler
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/05
Loc: Australia, Melbourne
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: redsquash]
#2614540 - 08/31/08 02:31 AM
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How well do Dobsons compare to Newtonain reflectors of the same price?
DO you get more bang for your buck with one or the other?
I own an r130sf and a 10" dob amongst other scopes.
The r130 for me represents superb portability and grab-and-go convenience. Its lightweight, can be carried, thrown on the back seat of the car, set up and used so easily. Its the scope I use if I just want a quick 10 minute look, or I'm going on a trip and don't have room for a bulky scope. The tripod allows comfortable standing up viewing due to its height.
The 10" dob can also be transported easily, but it takes up more room in the car, ie the entire back seat for the tube and a front seat for the base.You also need room for a stool or chair.
Make no mistake, the 10" dob kills it for observing power, but for me there's a place for owning both.
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Starkler
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/05
Loc: Australia, Melbourne
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: KWB]
#2614542 - 08/31/08 02:33 AM
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Yes the 2 mounts are different. An EQ mount and the alt/az(altitude and azimuth) principal of a Dob are no more or less effective than one another for casual viewing IMO.
The Vixen r130sf is a 130mm newtonian on a Vixen porta alt-az mount, not an eq mount.
Personally I cant fathom why anyone would want a small scope on an eq mount for visual observing anyway.
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.5400 feet
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: Starkler]
#2614546 - 08/31/08 02:44 AM
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I decided to give him the difference between an EQ mount and the Dob,Geoff. No Portamounts for an 8 or 10 inch tube. I've owned the Portamount and surely wouldn't want an EQ mounted grab and go scope either. I don't know what his intensions are until he posts back,just made a wild stab at what they might be.
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redsquash
super member
Reged: 08/05/08
Loc: Tennant Creek Australia
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: KWB]
#2614559 - 08/31/08 03:05 AM
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My turn,Jason
Yes the 2 mounts are different. An EQ mount and the alt/az(altitude and azimuth) principal of a Dob are no more or less effective than one another for casual viewing IMO. The dob is a simple newtonian using the alt/az design. For me it is one of convinience. An EQ mount using a similar newtonian tube has the ability to use driven motors on it's 2 main axes in the right ascension and declinations modes for tracking a celestial target and more expensive and elaborate versions have the capability to find an object for you. The overall size of an EQ mounted 8 or 10 reflector is quite large in size. A 10 inch Dob weighs less and takes up less floor space. The Dob is simpler to get into operation.
In it's rawest form the Dobsonian newt isn't a driven mount and isn't a viable imaging platform. For the EQ driven newtonian to be a worthy imaging system it must feature an extremely steady mount,resulting in a large and expensive investment of money. As a newcomer I would not worry about trying to even go down the path of astrophotography.
What exactly is the mount your present telescope has? What size aperture is it that you are looking to upgrade to? What is your bottom line budget for a complete telescope?
KWB
I am attempting to make myself more informed as I bought my scope last month and then stumbled on this forum.
I am trying to educate myself on the different systems and work out their weaknesses and strengths.
Astrophotogrphy would be great and in 10 years time that might be a path to consider.
I may have a chance to pickup a 10 inch dobson f/4 , an unbelievable stoke of luck for around $500, but I would need to sell my 5 inch Vixen.
There is no room for 1 scope as it is.
This is unlikely but who knows whats in the future.
As far as I can tell there is so much light pollution I cant even do a star test.
I am at Latitude 34 in Japan, what prominent star should I be able to do a star test on.
AT 2 am the sky is not too bad but its snooze time for me by then
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.5400 feet
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: redsquash]
#2614561 - 08/31/08 03:09 AM
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Hi
What is the exact model of the 10 inch F/4? I have a 10 inch F/4.9 Zhumell and Orion sell a 10 inch F/4.7. What you mention I am unfamiliar with in terms of a Dob.
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redsquash
super member
Reged: 08/05/08
Loc: Tennant Creek Australia
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: Starkler]
#2614568 - 08/31/08 03:24 AM
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hi Geoff ,
thats an eye-opening response which I will keep in the forefront of my thoughts. How much is a 10 inch Dobson new in Melbourne, and is their a second hand market for dobsons.
What price might I get as I will be visiting in Melbourne in January
It has been suggested if I get a dobson I should go for a 12 inch, and until then stay with my 5inch.
As
I am a raw beginner so I have to draw the line somewhere.
Can you tell me the Allen key size to adjust my secondary vixen mirror. Does the R130sf tend to stay collimated with normal use?
I am awaiting the arrival of a Powermate 2.5x so I can get enough magnification to do a star test. I don believe my current setup is sufficient to do a startest ..................though not completely sure. ............... see lenses below
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redsquash
super member
Reged: 08/05/08
Loc: Tennant Creek Australia
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: redsquash]
#2614570 - 08/31/08 03:33 AM
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Whitey Dob 25cm/F4.8
I believe the Chinese/Taiwan manufacturer makes the same for one of the very big brand names but obviously re branded.
Is this familiar.....selling for 59000 yen. Thats cheap here . How about melb or usa?
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redsquash
super member
Reged: 08/05/08
Loc: Tennant Creek Australia
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: KWB]
#2614573 - 08/31/08 03:36 AM Attachment (28 downloads)
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10" F4.8 Whitey Dob, at 59,800 yen all inclusive
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.5400 feet
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: redsquash]
#2614577 - 08/31/08 03:46 AM
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I cannot attest to what telescopes sell for or what their apparent worth is used in Japan. The focal ratio of F/4.8 is in line with what is common in the US and very similar to what I use. The value of this particular scope aside,I think it is an excellent design. It looks a lot like the former Celestron Starhopper. Just my opinion but if I could only own one scope as you previously stated,this 10 incher will be a serious upgrade in terms of resolving power. If it was me I would keep the 5 inch as a small lightweight companion if at all possible.
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redsquash
super member
Reged: 08/05/08
Loc: Tennant Creek Australia
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Re: Comparing a price comparable DOBSON with a Vixen
[Re: KWB]
#2614584 - 08/31/08 03:56 AM
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Got it .
Replace the wife with another scope.........sounds like a reasonable upgrade 
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