Laminarman
super member
Reged: 08/25/06
Posts: 108
Loc: New York
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I've had a Planet Hunter for about a year, admittedly not getting out enough. I live in Cloud City up here in NY State (second cloudiest city in the US next to Seattle). I've enjoyed the scope on a WO EZMount and views are great. But last night was a great night of seeing, for us anyways, and I have only a little light pollution. I cannot find some of the smaller clusters in the Teapot and for the love of God cannot find M13. I'm wondering if a larger aperture would help, if I'm going for objects that are too deep sky, or if it's me. I'm using primarily a Hyperion 24mmm EP which I just love. Also a Burgess 16 or 20mm wide angle. I had considered upgrading to a 102mm (I like refractors) but now am wondering if I'll still be aperture challenged. Maybe add a Nexstar 8SE as the second scope and keep the PHunter for doubles, planets..etc?? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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BO/TMP Planet Hunter
Oberwerk Tripod
WO EZTouch Head
BO Planetary 3.5 and 8mm
BO SWA 16 and 20mm
DEPOSIT, NY
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 858
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Hey, I am also in NY but actually, the skies have been terrific the last few days! Anyways, sometimes objects can be tough to find. You'll get them with some practice. Its not the scope and actually its not you either. It takes a little time to get the "hang" of understanding star charts and excatly where objects should be. We've all been there! More aperture doesnt ever hurt but there are TONS of objects that are well withing a smaller scopes reach. Trust me, I know! My 80mm and I always do well!
M13 is a pretty bright object so you should be able to see that. The "keystone" asterism of the constellation Hercules is where you need to be. Hercules is almost straight up this time of year so find Hercules. Then, the western-most keystone main stars are where M13 will be. M13 is a little less than halfway between the two western-most keystone stars. Use a low-power eyepiece and get in the general area and you should see it....unless you have a bad cloud problem! You'll notice a fairly bright hazy patch of light. Thats M13! Once you find it, try out some higher-powers since this object can take a LOT of magnification.
Here is a website with great star charts that can really help you out with finding stuff: www.ngc891.com
The site lists all of the Messier objects and you can print out star charts for specific constellations with lots of details. I use many of these charts and they have helped me out.
Let us know how you make out. I hope I havent confused you more with my babbling!
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Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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Jim Haley
sage
Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
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How exactly are you determining where to point your scope? Do you have a unit finder (telrad, green laser pointer or other)? What is the field of view through your longest focal length eyepiece? What maps are you using to star hop? Finding M13 should not be difficult. Are you finding the Hercules keystone asterism?
From you description I wonder if you are having navigation issues more than aperture issues (although an 8" dob will make objects easier to see).
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Jim Haley
12.5" f6 Starsplitter Dob
Orion 8" XTi (with computerized object locator)
Orion 114EQ reflector
80mm f6 refractor
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Treehopper
sage
Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 215
Loc: Upstate NY
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Hey, fellow New Yorker here. I feel your pain on the typical cloud patterns in our area of the country. However, our "tooth" charts are looking pretty dark for tonight, which is a good thing.
As far as finding the really faint fuzzies, if you're accustomed to looking for and at planets, some of the DSO's are going to be tougher to spot, as some of them tend to be very diffuse. Most of it comes from knowing you're looking in the right area of the sky, and then persisting in watching that area to see if anything "pops" or appears out of place.
Some old techniques that may help is defocusing and refocusing to see which stars snap into focus and which ones stay fuzzy, and a gentle "bump" of the mount can sometimes make the faint objects stand in relief as the mount dampens back to normal in a second or two.
Of course, aperture couldn't hurt, especially for a refractor-hound like yourself (I'm partial to them too, and am saving up for a short-tube sky-sweeper for my faint fuzzy fix!) 
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Tim
Third oak on the right, and straight on 'til morning.
Meade ETX-125PE (NGC7000 Edition)
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
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Laminarman
super member
Reged: 08/25/06
Posts: 108
Loc: New York
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Hi folks, thanks for the help. I use the supplied red dot finder which I find just "so so". I am indeed wondering if I am not in the Hercules asterism. Goodness I have a sore neck from looking up so much last night. I use Bright Star Atlas, Sky and Telescope atlas, a planisphere, Turn Left at Orion and Sue French's excellent book. I will try again tonight, but I think it may be navigation based rather than scope based now that I look things over in my head. For example I can never find the Andromeda galaxy which everyone says is easy to see. I seem to not be able to memorize all the patterns of these constellations, maybe if I was 30 years younger the gray matter would be more flexible and have more space left!
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BO/TMP Planet Hunter
Oberwerk Tripod
WO EZTouch Head
BO Planetary 3.5 and 8mm
BO SWA 16 and 20mm
DEPOSIT, NY
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molniyabeer
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/08/05
Posts: 2061
Loc: Central Coast, California
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Laminarman,
I've been observing for close to four years now and am not even close to having all the constellation patterns memorized! So don't let that bug you. To learn "star hopping" I started with 10x50 binocs and the brighter Messier objects. The wider field of view in the binocs was a huge help in learning how to move around the sky (so was the "right side up" image). Once I was good with the binocs, moving to the telescope's finder scope was much easier. And I always start with one of my lowest power eyepieces (24mm Hyperion, 32mm plossl or 38mm Geoptik).
For field use, I used wither the Pocket Sky Atlas (very nice!) or AstroCards (3x5 cards with nicely detailed finder charts).
It gets easier with practice, although my attempts to find the right field for Pluto last night reminded me that once in a while, the sky will humble you!
Clear skies.
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Steve
16" Meade LightBridge (Beowulf)
10" Hardin DSH, StarMax 127mm Mak, PST H-a
Oberwerk 11 x 70 binocs, Tasco 10 x 50 binocs
Santa Maria Clear Sky Clock
Figueroa Mt Clear Sky Clock
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Sean Cunneen
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/01/07
Posts: 565
Loc: Blue Island Illinois
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Your Planet Hunter is a specialized scope and is very good at ahem, Planets. 80mm w/ a long focal length is like looking through a straw, a very, very nice straw(can you tell I'm Envious?) Something a little wider and a little shorter will greatly increase the ease of finding objects. Once you know how to find things repeatably, whip out the PH for a nice highpower view. Dark Skies and clear seeing will be necessary for any kind of detail, but you should be able to see the object itself, no problem. You may want to consider a pair of 15X70 binoculars for a different perspective on the sky. Don't ever sell that scope, unless its to me!
Sean
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Sean Cunneen
Blue Island IL
8" f/8 Home built Newt, Discovery mirror, curved vane spider, CG5 Motorized head with Intelliscope DSC, Pier
C102hd CG-4
100mm F4 Cedar Tube RF Refractor
2,3,4,5,6mm Televue Plossls
27T3,33T3,44T3
9-22 Ethos Zoom
NO, I'M NOT SELLING!
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mathteacher
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/13/07
Posts: 1045
Loc: SF Bay Area
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I would try adding a 32mm eyepiece. This would give you the most FOV you can get in a 1.25" EP. My 100ED has a 900mm focal length as well, and it can fit the double cluster with the 32mm. I don't think your problem is with FOV... I'd try a finderscope. I've never had skies dark enough for a unit finder, so I've learned to use a finderscope. Once you get good with starhopping, you can triangulate your position 95% of the time. I'd get a 50mm finder; a lot of objects will show up in the finder itself, and you'll see more stars to help with starhopping. If your light pollution is not bad, maybe you can get away with a 30mm finder.
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Regards, Mr. Wang
CR 150-HD - Gordie, Vixen ED100sf - Schipperke, Orion ST80 - The Pug, Orion 7x50 Scenix
Meade DSI Color
Vixen Porta Mount, Super Polaris, 2" pipe mount
Please join the International Dark Sky Association
My CN gallery
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Laminarman
super member
Reged: 08/25/06
Posts: 108
Loc: New York
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Yeah, I got a steal on the scope last year. Almost spanking new with diagonal, two eyepieces and finder for $300, all in original boxes. I like the scope, but she sure is long! I did use binoculars for nearly a year before getting the scope, but yes, I find some nights humble me, last night was one of them.
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BO/TMP Planet Hunter
Oberwerk Tripod
WO EZTouch Head
BO Planetary 3.5 and 8mm
BO SWA 16 and 20mm
DEPOSIT, NY
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Lunatiki
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/07/05
Posts: 1252
Loc: Amarillo, TX
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I'd agree with the other posters. Sounds like a nagivation issue. Spend a bit of money and get a widefield eyepiece. When I was a 13 year old kid, I had the same problem with my small Tasco scope. Couldn't find anything, even with a finderscope. I thought the scope was messed up. I eventually unscrewed one of the eyepieces out of a set of binoculars and stuck it in my scope, giving me a widefield view. I'd think you should be seeing M13, no problems with that telecope. Don't give up hope though.
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Mars Watch
All images taken with:
Celestron NexStar 8i SCT
DBK 21AF04.AS
K3ccd/Registax4/PSP8
ALPO Member #4287
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Jim Haley
sage
Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
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I remember starting out and I feel your pain! One of the hardest things is getting a feel for how "big" the constellations are in the sky compared to how tiny they are on the monthly maps (I use and prefer skymaps.com). Start with constellations / asterisms that you know (like the big dipper). Get a feel for making it "grow" to match what you see in the sky.
Especially when trying for M13 and other very visible objects you will want to first find them with binocs. Now that it is directly overhead you will probably want to set down or laydown for using binocs. Only then try with the red dot finder and then telescope. A wider field eyepiece will help. Something that gives you a 5mm exit pupil (if you are over 40 or in light polluted area) would be best. The following equation is from the televue website.
http://www.televue.com/engine/page.asp?ID=131
Exit pupil = eyepiece focal length ÷ telescope f/#
Like I said before...you will probably want about a 5mm exit pupil.
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Jim Haley
12.5" f6 Starsplitter Dob
Orion 8" XTi (with computerized object locator)
Orion 114EQ reflector
80mm f6 refractor
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Joe Bergeron
Vendor - Space Art
Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Upstate NY
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Greetings from Binghamton. There's a bunch of other astroguys here in Broome. Many of them hang out at Kopernik Observatory south of Vestal. You'd be smart to show up there on a clear Friday night (their public night) with your scope. You will find someone there who will help you get the hang of using it.
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Seven telescopes of a diverse nature.
Multiple chums glittering in the sky. New friends await.
My Web Site
English Lessons for Amateur Astronomers
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Joe Aguiar
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/10/07
Posts: 728
Loc: Toront,Ontario
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New York City should have worse LP than me in Toronto so M31 or Andromeda is going to be a faint small blob in a 80mm scope in a city that large.
If you are going to view some deep sky stuff try a scope 10" you will then se hundreds of objects & getting a good finder like the Rigel/ Telrad will make things 100% easiler to find.
All the scope I have owned * is what I have right now
-4.5" F/8 generic reflector on EQ1
-6"F/5 Omcon reflector on EQ3
-10" F/10 Meade S.C.T LX6
-3"F/5 Jason reflector on table top
-3.1"F/5 Celestron refractor on EQ1
-4.7"F/9 Antres refractor on EQ4
-3.1" F/5 Celestron G.T (computer go-to scope)
-6"F/5 Sky Mender reflector on EQ4
-8"F/4 Sky Mender reflector on EQ4
-6"F/8 Celestron refractor on CG-5
-16" F/4.5 Meade Dobsonian (partly custom made)
*-8"F/10 Celestron Nexstar G.T /With telrad
-10"F/5 Sky Mender reflector Dobsonian
*-4"F/5 Skywatcher refractor on AZ3 with rigel finder & Antares 2" crayford dual speed focuser
-3.1"F/5 Vista refractor on EQ2
-14"F/10 Meade LX200 G.P.S Smart mount
-6"F/8 Skywatcher refractor on EQ-6 mount
-6"F/8 Skywatcher refractor to make a custom made dual 6" binoculars in the making now
-5"F/13 Skywatcher maksutov on EQ2
*-12" Meade LX90 G.P.S/S.C.T/ F10 with telrad & feather touch 2 speed focuser
*-7" Meade Mak/Cass F/15 LXD-75 with telrad & feather touch 2 speed focuser
-Cornado solar maxscope 40 on EQ-3 mount
*-Cornado Solar maxscope 60 on EQ-3 mount
*-Antares 152mm F/6.5 refractor on LXD-75 mount with rigel
*80mm F/5 refractor on a Table top EQ-1 mount
*Nexstar 6SE
Not counting any EP filters ETC... I got 2 cases full & would take up another page to list them all.
Joe
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Lamb0
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 668
Loc: Fairbury, Nebraska
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 The BO/TMP Planet Hunter 80 looks to be a fine f/11.25 Achro.  For a finder eyepiece it deserves a 2" diagonal with a 2" 38mm Superwide to a 2" 55mm Plossl to attain the 2.9°+ TFoV it's capable of  . I prefer rings to a red dot - the dot hides what I'm looking for!  Binoculars are a great aid in target location - and quite useful in their own right! 
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John "Have eyepiece - will travel!"
8" f/5 Dob w/2.14" sec in a 12" alum tube 'The Mortar' - w/PCorr 2° TFoV @ 36.5X ~70% illum *NICE*
Typical eyepieces: 32 Burg, 24 Pan, 20T5, 5-8 SW, Others ALL 2": Pcorr, 2X PwrMt, Ast H-b, Lum UHC + OIII
60mm $50 Walmart Special in training - aka "Backpack Observatory"
Minolta Activa 12x50 , Steiner 15X80
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Joe Bergeron
Vendor - Space Art
Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Upstate NY
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Joe... neither the OP nor I are in or near NYC. We have an entire state down here, not just the city.
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Seven telescopes of a diverse nature.
Multiple chums glittering in the sky. New friends await.
My Web Site
English Lessons for Amateur Astronomers
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Joe Aguiar
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/10/07
Posts: 728
Loc: Toront,Ontario
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sorry I know there a New York State but I am used to people saying what city thay are in not what State or up here Province.So when I saw New York I figured the city not the State.
Joe
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Joe Bergeron
Vendor - Space Art
Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Upstate NY
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Not to make a big issue of it, but the OP's signature says he's from Deposit, while I identified myself as being in Binghamton.
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Seven telescopes of a diverse nature.
Multiple chums glittering in the sky. New friends await.
My Web Site
English Lessons for Amateur Astronomers
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Joe Aguiar
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/10/07
Posts: 728
Loc: Toront,Ontario
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We talking about the same guy?
His name on the left of the display is laminarman & it says New York.
Joe
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Joe Bergeron
Vendor - Space Art
Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Upstate NY
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Read the signature beneath his post, where it lists his equipment and then says "DEPOSIT, NY."
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Seven telescopes of a diverse nature.
Multiple chums glittering in the sky. New friends await.
My Web Site
English Lessons for Amateur Astronomers
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Laminarman
super member
Reged: 08/25/06
Posts: 108
Loc: New York
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Yes, UPSTATE NY!! Oh, about 175 miles from the heap people always associate with us. We have stars, deer, bear and some peace and quiet up here. Joe, I'm in Kirkwood, so between Bingotown and Deposit actually. I will look at the Kopernik idea, I didn't know they had a public night on Fridays. I have been there long ago, great facility!
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BO/TMP Planet Hunter
Oberwerk Tripod
WO EZTouch Head
BO Planetary 3.5 and 8mm
BO SWA 16 and 20mm
DEPOSIT, NY
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