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Al Miller
super member
Reged: 08/25/08
Posts: 100
Loc: South-Central Texas
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First light for my new Antares 1529 refractor came last evening as there was finally a brief period of clear sky here in San Antonio. Granted the sky wasn’t perfect but it was reasonably clear with a slight haze. After mounting and balancing, and aligning the 1529 on the Atlas EQ-G I looked use Altair and Deneb to check collimation and appearance of defocused star patterns (BTW - the scope looked awesome on the Atlas mount! Image attached). This is where things got strange - at least to me. I had an Orion, 2” dielectric diagonal in the drawtube and first used a Meade 26mm Plossl eyepiece. Stars seemed to focus normally. Bright ones such as Altair never seemed to come to the “snap” focus expected from a refractor but I attributed this to the somewhat unsteady seeing. Fainter stars focused to pinpoints and I knew exactly where focus was. Looking at M11 at 38x (26mm Plossl) then at 66x (15mm Plossl) stars were still tight and fine points. CA was to my surprise, less than expected for a 6” scope at f/6.5 so the lens’ appear well corrected. The CA was, to my eyes, less than that shown in the AR-6 OTA I had recently used. Changing to a 10mm Ultrascopic, I began to notice what looked like a flair on the bright stars. Altair, Deneb, and Enif all showed this. Inside and outside focus the flair was there and didn’t shift from inside to outside focus. At focus, the bright stars never seemed to become points but, the fainter stars in the field were points, at least at the magnifications I was using (up to 198 with an Orion Shorty Barlow). In all cases at magnifications around and above 100x, with or without the Barlow, the brighter stars showed this flaring effect. I slewed over to Jupiter just to see what it looked like and was disappointed. The view was not sharp above 100x or even a bit lower. This may be a combination of Jupiter’s low declination and the somewhat unsteady seeing. I’m sure the effects were worse there than at the altitudes of Altair and Deneb. I did not have my 8”, f/6 Newtonian out to use as a comparison view. Next time I get out I will, and I’ll try to take images of the flair with the NexImage or something. Anyway - back to the stars. Defocused star patterns, in and out of focus were concentric. As focus was approached from either direction, a purple spot appeared off center and gave the appearance of a mis-collimated lens. I know this was not the case since I could clearly see the concentric rings of the defocused star, and my collimating eyepiece demonstrated the lens well centered. What could be causing this flair effect? Bad seeing? Some sort of light reflection or glare? I do live in a moderately light-polluted area but haven’t seen this effect in any of my other scopes EXCEPT the AR-6 – another 6” lens. I think the 1529 is good, and I’m convinced it is collimated very well. I just can’t figure what would cause the effect I’m seeing right now.
Another thing I noticed was that that without the diagonal I could not reach focus! Racked the focus all the way in, and all the way out - no focus in any eyepiece I used, and yes I’m certain there was a star in the field. For everything I did tonight I used the 26mm Plossl, 25mm Ultrascopic, 10mm Ultrascopic, 12mm Nagler, 8.8mm Meade Ultra Wide Angle, and Shorty Barlow. I put in an extension tube (Antares part# PAAR-AN-ET2) and was still unable to focus. Funny thing was that even using a 1.25” Orion dielectric diagonal focus was not reached! Racked all the way out, the star was just short of focus. For some reason the 2” diagonal was the only one that worked and had plenty of travel for any and all eyepieces I tried. Will this scope focus using my DSI’s and NexImage without the 2” diagonal? I’ll have to wait to find out since I didn’t have any of this set up tonight - would have had I thought there would be issues with my setup! I might be stupid but I measured the length of the scope from the rear of the objective to the end of the focuser and found it to be shorter than 990mm. In inches it was about 36” (914mm). Isn’t this too short? Focus is outside the focuser’s natural travel with out the diagonal ( but one would think the extension tube would work?) and even so why didn’t the 1.25” diagonal work? I’m thoroughly confused. 
Edited by Al Miller (09/02/08 01:08 PM)
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33072
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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The lightpath of a 1 1/4" diagonal is shorter than the lightpath of a 2" diagonal and it seems that minimal focus in your scope is between the two lengths.
I hope you get it sorted out.
An extension tube is in order.
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  Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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David L
super member
Reged: 11/12/07
Posts: 140
Loc: Lee County Iowa
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I have been using my Antares 1529 scope the past few weeks. I have found that with a 2 inch dielectric diagonal, I can reach focus at about the 6-cm mark using my 20mm Type 2 Nagler. When I first had the scope out, I tried putting in an eyepiece for straight-through viewing and was shocked when I couldn't reach focus. I soon found if I held the eyepiece further back I did have focus. It looks like you could use binoviewers, but I haven't tried them, figuring I could do better with 22X100 binoculars.
Jupiter was blurry, but I figured this was mostly due to bad seeing typical in the midwest. My scope was not cooled all the way down and I could detect tube currents when looking at Jupiter. The color correction seems excellent.
The location of the finder mount is inconvenient if you are using a red-dot finder, but the focuser can easily be rotated. Just loosen the four set screws and turn. I used a piece of half-inch thick aluminum with a Weaver scope rail on it to mount my red dot finder.
From what I understand, all these recent Antares 1529 scopes were star-tested before they were sent out, so the optics should be all right. The fainter stars definitely seem point-like. I haven't yet really cranked up the power because I was having such a good time with the Type 2 Nagler.
It looks like I can also use a 2-inch 45-degree erect image diagonal and use this scope in the daytime. I am also planning on trying out an equatorial mount that a friend is not currently using. My current mount is an altaz made from 2 3/8-inch thick aluminum plates and 6-inch Corian discs. Using paraffin as a lube, this mount works rather well.
One thing I noticed was the when the scope is pointed straight up, the dew shield tends to slide down. At any rate, it was worth the wait to get this scope.
Dave
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8.5 X 44 Swift Audubon binoculars
100 mm semi-apo triplet PVC spotting scope
6 inch F8 dobsonian
10 inch F4.5 dobsonian
2 2-cylinder equatorial platforms, 2-roller direct drive
22X100 Oberwerk binoculars (just received)
6" F6.5 Antares refractor
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Al Miller
super member
Reged: 08/25/08
Posts: 100
Loc: South-Central Texas
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Quote:
From what I understand, all these recent Antares 1529 scopes were star-tested before they were sent out, so the optics should be all right.
Dave - From what I've seen using the collimating eyepiece and in the defocused star patterns, there does not seem to be an issue with the optics collimation. I find it odd and unusual that there is this flairing effect at higher magnifications that I cannot recall seeing in any other scope I have other than the AR-6. With the AR-6 I collimated, checked and triple checked the collimation but, still this effect was seen. I stopped using the AR-6 for this reason. Now I see it in the Antares but, I can't figure why when the optics are so well collimated. I'll try to image this when I get the chance. As for the focusing issue, I think a longer extension tube will solve this problem but I guess I can also just image with the diagonal on. For imaging the 1529 may simply serve as the guide scope for a piggybacked imaging OTA. I won't complain too loudly as I do like the low power, wide views the 1529 gives. I never intended it to be a planet-scope.
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Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron C8 XLT OTA
Orion XT8 Classic Dob.
Meade AR-5, f/9.3 refractor (LXD55 version)
Antares 4.1", f/12.4 refractor w/EQ5 (solar scope)
Orion ST120, f/5 refractor
Orion ST80, f/5 refractor (my guidescope)
Meade DSIc, DSI IIc and DSI II Pro
Celestron NexImage (x2)
Orion StarShoot autoguider
Atlas EQ-G mount
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Wmacky
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 547
Loc: Middleburg Fl US
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Do the flairs move if you rotate your eye?
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William
C-11 SCT
EON 80ED
CGE
Canon 40D
Phillips SPC900
SS Autoguider
Scopebuggy
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stevew
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/03/06
Posts: 625
Loc: British Columbia Canada
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Al, this sounds strange. You say you had the same problem with an AR6 ? Is it possible that there is something they have in common? Same diagonal? or something like that.
I found my 1529, had a little spherical aberation, so I stopped it down 1/4 inch. So now it's only a 5 3/4 inch refractor  , but it sure tightened up the images quite a bit. I have since used mine with a Meade 4000 4.7 UWA for about 210X, and have had no problems with it under reasonable steady skies.
Steve
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16 inch Dobsonian
Celestron C9.25
Coulter 8 F4.5
Antares 152 F-6.5
Celestron C5
Televue Genesis SDF
Televue Pronto
Losmandy G11
TV Gibraltar
W.O. EZ Touch
Vixen Polaris
--------------------------------------------
"Mos Eisley space port, You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany"
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Al Miller
super member
Reged: 08/25/08
Posts: 100
Loc: South-Central Texas
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Quote:
Do the flairs move if you rotate your eye?
I want to say they do. Now that I'm trying to picture this a day later, I'm not certain. I know I don't have any astigmatism in my eyes if that's where you're going with this, and I do, for certain remember rotating the eyepieces to see if the anomaly moved. It didn't. I also remember moving my eye actually my entire head) over the eyepiece in a circular movement and did see the flair move but, it always stayed on one side of the star. Next time I get it out, I'll have all the questions from these posts with me so I can answer them more clearly.
Quote:
You say you had the same problem with an AR6 ? Is it possible that there is something they have in common? Same diagonal? or something like that.
Yes, I saw the same anomaly in the AR-6. With that one, the same 2" diagonal was used however I was also able to use the 1.25" diagonal with the same result. Maybe, just maybe there is something about the diagonals that produces a light deflection? These are good Orion dielectrics. I have another 2-incher on another scope and there is no issue there. I'm using a 1.25" dielectric on the AR-5 OTA with which I have viewed stars and planets at high magnification without any problems. As soon as I get the time and clear sky I'm going to address all of these issues again. Maybe I'm just seeing something that isn't an issue at all.
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Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron C8 XLT OTA
Orion XT8 Classic Dob.
Meade AR-5, f/9.3 refractor (LXD55 version)
Antares 4.1", f/12.4 refractor w/EQ5 (solar scope)
Orion ST120, f/5 refractor
Orion ST80, f/5 refractor (my guidescope)
Meade DSIc, DSI IIc and DSI II Pro
Celestron NexImage (x2)
Orion StarShoot autoguider
Atlas EQ-G mount
Edited by Al Miller (09/01/08 09:44 PM)
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bcuddihee
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/06
Posts: 935
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
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Have you star tested at high power? If you have flairs at relatively low powers they would surely show up with a star test. I had a similar problem with a first generation 1529, and I finally found that the tho lenses were not centered in relation to each other..in that case it was because the ID of the lens cells themselves were a bit larger than they should have been and the lens elements changed positions when the retaining ring was snugged up. The new cells are supposed to be CNC machined but they could still be assembled improperly and the lenses could be not lined up relative to each other. I remember that collimation of my scope did not help initially and was a frustrating experience. I ended up sending it back but the new scope was promised to address these issues. It should perform better than you mention and a flair on bright star images is not normal. There is a problem somewhere in the system.I hope you can find the problem but if you can't you should send it back and try another sample.
Good Luck.
bc
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B Cuddihee
On the quest to find the best for the least!
--------------------------
1968 Jason Empire 60X700mm refractor (my buddy from way back)
Celestron Nexstar8SE(a remarkable 8" grab and go)
Feathertouch Microfocuser
Stellarvue 50mm "Sparrowhawk" finder
Denk bino's with Power x switch
Pair of 26m Celestron Silvertop Plossls
Pair of Smart Astronomy 19 EF's
Pair of Smart Astronomy 16 EF's
Agena 38 SWA
Agena 26 SWA
Garrett 2" 2x ED Barlow
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jason_milani
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 1450
Loc: Northeast Ohio
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I had mine out tonight and viewed Jupiter at up to 330X. While the seeing was pretty good for my area tonight, it still doesn't like to permit such high magnifications. Nevertheless, i had no image breakdown due to the optics. The was a blue halo around the planet but that subsided with the use of a light yellow filter. I star tested it indoor with an artificial star and the patterns inside and outside of focus were pretty much identical. I also did a Ronchi test and the lines were straight and uniform without any sign of roughness or turned edge.
Did you notice if the retaining ring on the lens cell had silicone on it? Mine did when i received it which tells me that they tested it and wanted nothing to be knocked out of place during shipment by locking the ring in place.
Since the seeing around here is always less than perfect i always star test indoors with an artificial star. For me it's well worth a hundred bucks for as many scopes as i go through. (i tested 3 scopes with it tonight).
Good luck - i would not hesitate to send it back if the optics are not up to snuff.
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Antares 1529 6" Refractor
William Optics FLT 110mm LV Refractor
Orion EON 72mm Refractor
Orion Atlas mount with EQ MOD
William Optics EZtouch mount
Mallincam Hyper Color Plus
Celestron Neximage
Canon 350D
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trever
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/18/03
Posts: 2695
Loc: North Alabama
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The 1529 and similar Meade AR6 I used to own both had issues with a slightly loose objective. I could shake the objective end and hear it rattle as it moved. You should check that out just in case it is loose.
I fixed the AR6 by taking out the objective lens assemble, aligning the misaligned lenses so that the marks were aligned and added three sections of tape to keep the layers from rotating plus it adds some shim thickness to prevent movment. For me, it worked like a charm.
Now, I am not recommending that, just something I had to do since the lens had become misaligned. If the lens does move withing the cell, there is a retaining ring you can tighten, but dont overtighten it or you risk rotating the lens layers and misaligning them. Then it will have to be taken out as I did and realign them together.
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Trever
Coronado PST Solar Telescope
Vixen A80MF 80mm Refractor with Porta Mount
Orange Celestron 8 inch SCT on AS-GT mount
Zhumell 20x80 Astronomical Binoculars
Orion Paragon HD-F2 Tripod
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Al Miller
super member
Reged: 08/25/08
Posts: 100
Loc: South-Central Texas
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Well, I had the 1529 out again last night to confirm what I saw initially wasn't just my imagination or my expecting more from a scope in this price range. First I use a collimating eyepiece and saw perfectly centered optics... just as before. After setting up as usual, I went through most of my eyepieces, one at a time, then again using a 2x Barlow (Orion Shorty Plus). Using Altair and Enif as my bright stars, I once again saw the same flairing effect in every eyepiece, both with and without the Barlow. At about 200x (198x with the 10mm and Barlow) the focused star pattern looked exactly like one through mis-aligned optics, and matched very closely one seen in Dick Suiter's book for star testing. Stars looked like little comets... even when centered in the field. Turing to Jupiter, the planet was blurred at any magnification I used and the moons were comets as well. By now I'm very disappointed and ready to pack the scope for return. I looked at M11, and random star fields to make sure I had stars of various brightness in the field. As before I could see the flair or distortion in many of the stars but other fainter ones didn't show any. M29 for example appeared normal as did M11 until I used powers above 150. Now comes a really strange happening, and I just can't figure it... After looking at a disappointing Jupiter again, I slewed over to M6 and changed to the 25mm Ultrascopic. To my surprise none of the stars were "comets". Tried it with the Barlow... no comets. Put in the 10mm Ultrascopic, then the 8.8mm UWA... no comets! What the h---? Tried the 10mm with the Barlow... no comets! In fact the stars were now pinpoints. Slewed back to Jupiter with the 10mm plus Barlow still in... moons now points and the planet focused and rich in detail (except for a little blue haze). Went back and looked at Altair, Enif, and Deneb with various eyepieces. The stars now focused to points. Now I've heard about the loose lens symdrome and so-on in some of the Meade AR's but, I'm positive this lens was not loose and I heard nothing flopping around while moving the scope. What happened? Something out of line somehow got knocked into position but what? And how? All I know is that for the rest of the time I was out the scope performed as a 6" achromat refractor should... very nice! I hated to take it down for the night so as not to cause mis-alignment again to what ever it was. Perhaps it was the diagonal or something all along.
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Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron C8 XLT OTA
Orion XT8 Classic Dob.
Meade AR-5, f/9.3 refractor (LXD55 version)
Antares 4.1", f/12.4 refractor w/EQ5 (solar scope)
Orion ST120, f/5 refractor
Orion ST80, f/5 refractor (my guidescope)
Meade DSIc, DSI IIc and DSI II Pro
Celestron NexImage (x2)
Orion StarShoot autoguider
Atlas EQ-G mount
Edited by Al Miller (09/03/08 03:14 PM)
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bcuddihee
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/06
Posts: 935
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
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I 'd check the retaining ring to see if it is loose. If so use your fingernail to snug down just a bit. It really sounds as if the lens elements were somehow askew to each other and bu slewing it around they fell into place. Snug it down ..making sure you do it when you see perfect images.
bc
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B Cuddihee
On the quest to find the best for the least!
--------------------------
1968 Jason Empire 60X700mm refractor (my buddy from way back)
Celestron Nexstar8SE(a remarkable 8" grab and go)
Feathertouch Microfocuser
Stellarvue 50mm "Sparrowhawk" finder
Denk bino's with Power x switch
Pair of 26m Celestron Silvertop Plossls
Pair of Smart Astronomy 19 EF's
Pair of Smart Astronomy 16 EF's
Agena 38 SWA
Agena 26 SWA
Garrett 2" 2x ED Barlow
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Eddgie
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/01/06
Posts: 1738
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Well, SOMETHING is loose.
Is the focuser tube shifting due to the change in torqe? You went from targets very high to a target close to the horizon.. If the focuser tube has play in it, it could be that because the eyepiece was under more perpindicular torque load, it moved.
And of couse if it IS moving, it could be that sometimes when you collimate, you are doing it with the scope in one angle, and when you point it over head, the torque load on the focuser changes.
The Focuser Draw tube should have NO play in it. rack it all the way out and grab the end and jiggle it (a highly technmical term that means move it sharply from side to side.. Also, see my book "Great Bar Adventures of the world" for alternative meanings of the word Jiggle.
Also, check to see that the focuser housing is TIGHT in the housing, and that the lens cell itself if screwed down.
Check your diagonal to ensure that the mirror is not loose.. Some of these mirror are simply stuck to the back with a couple of silicone dots..
If you are SURE that the lenes arent moving, then something else clearly is...
Good luck.. I always DID enjoy a nice Jiggle... I hope you do too...
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Celestron C14, CGE (Big Al)
Astro-Physics 6" f/8 (Buffy)
Televue 101 (No name, but I call it my Widescreen HD Space TV)
The night sky is my mistress. She seduces me away from all other lovers.
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deSitter
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 778
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The worst a loose drawtube would do, would be eccentric diffraction patterns. not flared. It's got to be decentering of the elements.
-drl
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Al Miller
super member
Reged: 08/25/08
Posts: 100
Loc: South-Central Texas
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As soon as I get another chance to take the scope out I'll check everything again and if the sky is transparent, try some short exposure imaging. I'll check the lens tightness before that.
--------------------
Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron C8 XLT OTA
Orion XT8 Classic Dob.
Meade AR-5, f/9.3 refractor (LXD55 version)
Antares 4.1", f/12.4 refractor w/EQ5 (solar scope)
Orion ST120, f/5 refractor
Orion ST80, f/5 refractor (my guidescope)
Meade DSIc, DSI IIc and DSI II Pro
Celestron NexImage (x2)
Orion StarShoot autoguider
Atlas EQ-G mount
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Al Miller
super member
Reged: 08/25/08
Posts: 100
Loc: South-Central Texas
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Well it appeared last night that the 1529's alignment is still OK. I'm still not sure what was loose and can't find anything loose now. I'll keep watch everytime I use it to see if this flair-thing happens again but, right now all seems right. I took the following two test exposures through it with my Meade DSI 2 Pro. Don't be too critical, these weren't an attempt at creating a museum quality image by any means. This one is M2. No filters other than an IR and no processing other than Envisage and one pass sharpening in PaintShop Pro. I did crop for smaller image to post. Both images show the effects of a light breeze that popped up through out the evening. M2 is 40, 30-second subs, and M33 is 24x60s. I do think a small APO of some kind is in my imaging future however.
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Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron C8 XLT OTA
Orion XT8 Classic Dob.
Meade AR-5, f/9.3 refractor (LXD55 version)
Antares 4.1", f/12.4 refractor w/EQ5 (solar scope)
Orion ST120, f/5 refractor
Orion ST80, f/5 refractor (my guidescope)
Meade DSIc, DSI IIc and DSI II Pro
Celestron NexImage (x2)
Orion StarShoot autoguider
Atlas EQ-G mount
Edited by Al Miller (09/06/08 02:21 PM)
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Al Miller
super member
Reged: 08/25/08
Posts: 100
Loc: South-Central Texas
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M33 with the Antares 1529. 24x60s subs. no processing at all except Envisage.
--------------------
Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron C8 XLT OTA
Orion XT8 Classic Dob.
Meade AR-5, f/9.3 refractor (LXD55 version)
Antares 4.1", f/12.4 refractor w/EQ5 (solar scope)
Orion ST120, f/5 refractor
Orion ST80, f/5 refractor (my guidescope)
Meade DSIc, DSI IIc and DSI II Pro
Celestron NexImage (x2)
Orion StarShoot autoguider
Atlas EQ-G mount
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stevew
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/03/06
Posts: 625
Loc: British Columbia Canada
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Good for you Al, Glad to here your flaring problem cleard up. Although it would be nice to know why.
Nice images!
Congratulations on a fine refractor.
Steve
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16 inch Dobsonian
Celestron C9.25
Coulter 8 F4.5
Antares 152 F-6.5
Celestron C5
Televue Genesis SDF
Televue Pronto
Losmandy G11
TV Gibraltar
W.O. EZ Touch
Vixen Polaris
--------------------------------------------
"Mos Eisley space port, You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany"
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Dusty
sage
Reged: 05/26/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Quote:
Good for you Al, Glad to here your flaring problem cleard up. Although it would be nice to know why.
Nice images!
Congratulations on a fine refractor.
Steve
Hi Steve,
I talked to my buddy at Sky Instruments about the comet flair problem. They were quite surprised to hear about this because all the first batch of scopes were star tested and showed perfect star patterns.
They suspect the problem is a result of rough handling during shipment jarring the two lens elements causing them to become un-centered from each other and not sitting perfectling aligned on top of each other.
During machining they allowed for a 1/20,000 inch of a space around the objectives between the lens cell. Now this may not seem like a lot... but enough that a good bump to the scope could off center the two objectives slightly causing the comet flair. The retaining ring should be tight enough to hold the two lenses snug together but not so tight to stress the glass elements. If handled roughly, some movement between the two objectives is possible.
Sky Instruments has asked one of their customers to return their scope so they can look into a fix for the problem. As soon as they solve the problem I will post a fix here.
Sky Instruments also told me that one customer fixed the comet problem by simply loosening off the retaining ring and carefully re-tightening it again taking care not too rotate the top objective while doing so.
Sky Instruments suspects that by doing this... the smaller top objective was able to re-seat it self back to center onto the lower objective. After doing this the customer indicated it fixed the problem and he was now reporting perfect star patterns during testing and is very happy with the scope.
That's all I know for now, I will keep you posted as get more information.
Dusty
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Dave Novoselsky
sage
Reged: 06/16/08
Posts: 462
Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago
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Any update? Dave
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Time wounds all heels.
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