tonyb
sage
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 364
Loc: WA, USA
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I've just started to trying to use my Canon EOS 5D through my WO110mm and wanted to ask if there were any focusing tips. The 5D does not have Live View, but could I still connect the 5D via USB to my PC and view 5-10 sec short RAW exposures on my PC as they get written to the CF card to get the focus right? Should I use the Canon software to do this or make use of the Windows Vista Picture Viewer?
Thx.
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Celestron C9.25" SCT Carbon.
William Optics FLT 110 Triplet APO Refractor.
Atlas EQ-G with GoTo hand controller.
SBIG ST-2000XCM color CCD.
QHY8 / Q453-HR color CCD.
Lumenera LU075C color webcam.
Meade DSI II for autoguiding using PHDGuiding and WO66mm refractor.
Meade DSI III color w/Envisage sw.
Toucam Pro II 840k EPROM flashed to SP900NC.
K3CCDtools/Registax/CCDSoft v5/Nebulosity//PS CS3.
Dell Latitude D830 notebook w/Vista Ultimate 32.
Canon EOS 5D MkII DSLR.
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Gus_Smedstad
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/02/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston 42° 16' N 71° 08' W
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My personal experience was that I didn't get correct focus with a non-Live View camera until I bought a Stiletto. It's pricey, but it's fast, and the results and dead-on. Sharp focus is so vital to image quality that I think it's well worth it.
Next-best is test exposures using a Hartman mask that has diffraction features. The diffraction spikes are really vital to telling when the you're in focus rather than merely close.
- Gus
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Gus Smedstad
Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G
Orion 80mm f/11.4 guidescope
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
Canon 40D
Philips SPC900NC
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Jerry3672
Vendor - Quantum Astronomy Products
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 295
Loc: Lexington NC
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I use the canon EOS utility software. It will show a live view on the screen that you can zoom in on. I have the 450D, so I'm not sure about the 5d and how the EOS works with it.
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Meade LXD75-SN-8
C11
DSI Pro
Sony H7
Canon XSi 450D unmod
www.spike-a.com
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FarmerDave
sage
Reged: 09/07/07
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
so I'm not sure about the 5d and how the EOS works with it.
The 5D does not have LiveView, even with the EOS Utility.
LiveView is the cat's meow. However, the 5D is a nice camera, and has a full frame of nice big fat pixels.
Like Gus said, there are some non-software solutions. If you're going to take/inspect test pictures (with or without the hardware focusing aids), I would recommend some software that helps automate the process, either Nebulosity by Craig Stark or IP Camera Control by Mike Unsold. Both have free trials available.
HTH,
David
--------------------
Celestron C6/C9.25/CG-5GT Mount
Orion 80ED/EON 72/Supercharged Atlas EQ-G
Garrett Optical Signature Series 10x50
Canon XTi (soon to be modded)/Canon 40D (unmodded)
Meade DSI/Meade DSI Pro/Philips SPC900N
1944 Ford 2N/1948 Ford 8N
Bahtinov Mask Generator * AstroCataLink * 40DShutterCount
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hiro
sage
Reged: 07/17/07
Posts: 285
Loc: Tokyo
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I use 5D without any software assistance now. Vixen 4x15 monocular helps me a little bit to confirm focus through finder, but it always takes me more than 30 minutes to confirm focus with some trial shots. I must try Nebulosity or something.
--------------------
hiro
Canon EOS 5D / EOS 5D-AP
Takahashi FSQ-106ED with reducer, extender, and "hiro design" off axis guider
Takahashi EM-200 temma 2 jr
Kenko Skymemo-R
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tonyb
sage
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 364
Loc: WA, USA
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Ah, got it - that was my initial thought. I installed on my PC the Canon 5D USB WIA driver, EOS Utility 2.4, Digital Photo Professional [DPP] 3.4.1. Then set the Canon 5D communications to PC in the Canon's camera body Menu settings. Launching the EOS Utility and setting in the Prefs DPP as the Linked Software, when I fired off the Canon from the EOS Utility the latest image is downloaded to my and presented automatically in DPP.
So, to help with focus, as you mentioned:
1. Connect Canon to PC
2. Launch EOS Utility
3. Fire the Canon from EOS Utility
4. Inspect the captured image in DPP
5. Focus and repeat - using Hartmann mask too
Many thanks for the pointers.
Canon software / drivers available here:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&tabact=DownloadDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=11933
--------------------
Celestron C9.25" SCT Carbon.
William Optics FLT 110 Triplet APO Refractor.
Atlas EQ-G with GoTo hand controller.
SBIG ST-2000XCM color CCD.
QHY8 / Q453-HR color CCD.
Lumenera LU075C color webcam.
Meade DSI II for autoguiding using PHDGuiding and WO66mm refractor.
Meade DSI III color w/Envisage sw.
Toucam Pro II 840k EPROM flashed to SP900NC.
K3CCDtools/Registax/CCDSoft v5/Nebulosity//PS CS3.
Dell Latitude D830 notebook w/Vista Ultimate 32.
Canon EOS 5D MkII DSLR.
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Andrew Welsh
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/28/06
Posts: 2245
Loc: Rochester, NY
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DSLR focus works real well for this as well, even though it's no longer being updated. That is the software I used when I shot before the advent of Live View.
Stilettos are highly recommended, angle view finder eyepieces are the method of choice for others.
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LX200 8" classic, f/10, Meade eq. wedge, .63x FF/FR
Canon 40D and 5D, unmodified
Canon EF 300/2.8L IS, 400/5.6L, 135/2L, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 35/2, 24-70/2.8L, and Peleng 8mm fisheye
Orion Apex 102mm (4") Mak-Cass
Pimped out with accessories and bling
My DSLR Astrophotography Webpage and photo bucket with full equipment list
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Jerry3672
Vendor - Quantum Astronomy Products
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 295
Loc: Lexington NC
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Check out this thread for a focus method that may help. This is about a new focus mask.
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2544487/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
--------------------
Meade LXD75-SN-8
C11
DSI Pro
Sony H7
Canon XSi 450D unmod
www.spike-a.com
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tonyb
sage
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 364
Loc: WA, USA
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Many thanks. I am looking at the Canon EOS Rebel XSi since it has Live View and the absence of full frame chip c/w the 5D is not an issue since I'm getting vignette at the edges with the WO110mm+EOS 5D anyway.
--------------------
Celestron C9.25" SCT Carbon.
William Optics FLT 110 Triplet APO Refractor.
Atlas EQ-G with GoTo hand controller.
SBIG ST-2000XCM color CCD.
QHY8 / Q453-HR color CCD.
Lumenera LU075C color webcam.
Meade DSI II for autoguiding using PHDGuiding and WO66mm refractor.
Meade DSI III color w/Envisage sw.
Toucam Pro II 840k EPROM flashed to SP900NC.
K3CCDtools/Registax/CCDSoft v5/Nebulosity//PS CS3.
Dell Latitude D830 notebook w/Vista Ultimate 32.
Canon EOS 5D MkII DSLR.
|
Gus_Smedstad
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/02/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston 42° 16' N 71° 08' W
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|
Live View is great, but seriously, the Stiletto is just as effective, and not as expensive as a new camera. Though I can understand the pull of that as well - I bought a 40D after buying a Stiletto. Still, you've got a 5D, which is already pretty nice. I think if I were in your position and absolutely set on spending money on another body rather than a Stiletto, I'd wait for the 50D which will be for sale shortly. It's more expensive, but it would be much more of an improvement in many areas than the 450D.
- Gus
--------------------
Gus Smedstad
Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G
Orion 80mm f/11.4 guidescope
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
Canon 40D
Philips SPC900NC
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FarmerDave
sage
Reged: 09/07/07
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
I'd wait for the 50D which will be for sale shortly. It's more expensive
FWIW, they're also (supposedly) replacing the 5D this fall, as well, with 1 or possibly 2 cameras - the rumor mill says.
Emails I've seen say there will be a 5D Mk II *and* a 7D, which will be a less-expensive FF model.
News should come by 9/23 (Photokina trade show) of any replacement.
David
--------------------
Celestron C6/C9.25/CG-5GT Mount
Orion 80ED/EON 72/Supercharged Atlas EQ-G
Garrett Optical Signature Series 10x50
Canon XTi (soon to be modded)/Canon 40D (unmodded)
Meade DSI/Meade DSI Pro/Philips SPC900N
1944 Ford 2N/1948 Ford 8N
Bahtinov Mask Generator * AstroCataLink * 40DShutterCount
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tonyb
sage
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 364
Loc: WA, USA
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Hi:
Many thanks. Yeah I really like my 5D. The full-frame chip is awesome for terrestrial work and I can't see me replacing it in the next few years. The 50D sounds compelling because of Live View - the main thing I'd like - though with the EOS Utility and Canon DPP software with the 5D it only takes me 5 minutes to shoot, auto-download-to-PC, check image in DPP, refine focus - repeat to get the focus. The gadget-head in me wants the 50D; the Divorce Court Prevention Feature in me says "make do". 
--------------------
Celestron C9.25" SCT Carbon.
William Optics FLT 110 Triplet APO Refractor.
Atlas EQ-G with GoTo hand controller.
SBIG ST-2000XCM color CCD.
QHY8 / Q453-HR color CCD.
Lumenera LU075C color webcam.
Meade DSI II for autoguiding using PHDGuiding and WO66mm refractor.
Meade DSI III color w/Envisage sw.
Toucam Pro II 840k EPROM flashed to SP900NC.
K3CCDtools/Registax/CCDSoft v5/Nebulosity//PS CS3.
Dell Latitude D830 notebook w/Vista Ultimate 32.
Canon EOS 5D MkII DSLR.
|
Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 6789
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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I will second and third the recommendation for the Stiletto focuser. Dead on accurate and easy with no guess work. I can get focus faster than it takes to hook up a computer to the camera and do the first focus image iteration. Try it...you'll like it.
Astrophotography is hard enough without worrying about focusing. Why make it more complicated by going through the long iterative process required by computer aided focusing? Your field time would be much better spent on getting a good polar alignment and actually acquiring images.
Patrick
--------------------
Discovery 10" f/6 Split Tube Dob
Celestron C6 SCT
Denk Binoviewers
AT66ED Refractor
Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Binocular
475B Geared Tripod & 501HDV Head
Oberwerk 9x60 Binocular
Celestron Regal 8x42 Binocular
Canon 30D DSLR
Mini EQ1
My Astronomy Pages
Edited by Patrick (09/05/08 12:25 PM)
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tonyb
sage
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 364
Loc: WA, USA
|
|
Hi:
I also checked into MaximDSLR - looks like it too will perform long exposure camera control and provides focus tools like ImagesPlus Camera Control.
Thx.
--------------------
Celestron C9.25" SCT Carbon.
William Optics FLT 110 Triplet APO Refractor.
Atlas EQ-G with GoTo hand controller.
SBIG ST-2000XCM color CCD.
QHY8 / Q453-HR color CCD.
Lumenera LU075C color webcam.
Meade DSI II for autoguiding using PHDGuiding and WO66mm refractor.
Meade DSI III color w/Envisage sw.
Toucam Pro II 840k EPROM flashed to SP900NC.
K3CCDtools/Registax/CCDSoft v5/Nebulosity//PS CS3.
Dell Latitude D830 notebook w/Vista Ultimate 32.
Canon EOS 5D MkII DSLR.
|
Gus_Smedstad
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/02/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston 42° 16' N 71° 08' W
|
|
Quote:
Why make it more complicated by going through the long iterative process required by computer aided focusing?
To be fair, focusing with Live View, a laptop, and a focusing mask (Hartman or the Bhatinov I'm trying to make) is actually a tad faster, because you don't have to switch the Stiletto in and out. Just attach the camera (which you have to do anyway), attach the USB cord (which some of us were going to do anyway), click "live view," click "zoom," and adjust until the diffraction spikes meet in the center.
Both methods are so fast and accurate that there's little point in arguing the merits of one over the other. Compared to focusing with iterative exposures without Live View, well, yeah. A Stiletto is tons better than that, focusing software or not.
- Gus
--------------------
Gus Smedstad
Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G
Orion 80mm f/11.4 guidescope
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
Canon 40D
Philips SPC900NC
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tonyb
sage
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 364
Loc: WA, USA
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I'm also looking into this, along with Maxim DSLR for my Canon EOS 5D. At a minimum, it looks like nice way to be able to perform/control B exposures with my EOS 5D from a PC. And use the Maxim DSLR for focus measurements.
http://www.store.shoestringastronomy.com/products_ds.htm
1. DSUSB - USB Shutter Control Adapter
2. Cable for Canon DSLRs with N3 connector - DSCBL-11
--------------------
Celestron C9.25" SCT Carbon.
William Optics FLT 110 Triplet APO Refractor.
Atlas EQ-G with GoTo hand controller.
SBIG ST-2000XCM color CCD.
QHY8 / Q453-HR color CCD.
Lumenera LU075C color webcam.
Meade DSI II for autoguiding using PHDGuiding and WO66mm refractor.
Meade DSI III color w/Envisage sw.
Toucam Pro II 840k EPROM flashed to SP900NC.
K3CCDtools/Registax/CCDSoft v5/Nebulosity//PS CS3.
Dell Latitude D830 notebook w/Vista Ultimate 32.
Canon EOS 5D MkII DSLR.
|
Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 6789
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
|
|
Quote:
I'm also looking into this, along with Maxim DSLR for my Canon EOS 5D.
Which version of Maxim DSLR are you thinking about getting?
Patrick
--------------------
Discovery 10" f/6 Split Tube Dob
Celestron C6 SCT
Denk Binoviewers
AT66ED Refractor
Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Binocular
475B Geared Tripod & 501HDV Head
Oberwerk 9x60 Binocular
Celestron Regal 8x42 Binocular
Canon 30D DSLR
Mini EQ1
My Astronomy Pages
|
tonyb
sage
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 364
Loc: WA, USA
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|
Hi:
Looks like it would be Maxin DSLR 5 - http://www.cyanogen.com/maxim_matrix.php
Yikes - might be out of my price range at $399.
Anyone come across any other solutions for EOS 5D exposure control and focus measurement?
Thx.
--------------------
Celestron C9.25" SCT Carbon.
William Optics FLT 110 Triplet APO Refractor.
Atlas EQ-G with GoTo hand controller.
SBIG ST-2000XCM color CCD.
QHY8 / Q453-HR color CCD.
Lumenera LU075C color webcam.
Meade DSI II for autoguiding using PHDGuiding and WO66mm refractor.
Meade DSI III color w/Envisage sw.
Toucam Pro II 840k EPROM flashed to SP900NC.
K3CCDtools/Registax/CCDSoft v5/Nebulosity//PS CS3.
Dell Latitude D830 notebook w/Vista Ultimate 32.
Canon EOS 5D MkII DSLR.
|
tonyb
sage
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 364
Loc: WA, USA
|
|
Hi:
I think I found a solution that I like:
1. Use Nebulosity 2 for camera exp control
2. Use Nebulosity 2 for focus measurement
3. buy this hardware to operate the EOS 5D in long exp bulb mode: http://www.store.shoestringastronomy.com/products_ds.htm
a. DSUSB - USB Shutter Control Adapter
b. Cable for Canon DSLRs with N3 connector - DSCBL-11
--------------------
Celestron C9.25" SCT Carbon.
William Optics FLT 110 Triplet APO Refractor.
Atlas EQ-G with GoTo hand controller.
SBIG ST-2000XCM color CCD.
QHY8 / Q453-HR color CCD.
Lumenera LU075C color webcam.
Meade DSI II for autoguiding using PHDGuiding and WO66mm refractor.
Meade DSI III color w/Envisage sw.
Toucam Pro II 840k EPROM flashed to SP900NC.
K3CCDtools/Registax/CCDSoft v5/Nebulosity//PS CS3.
Dell Latitude D830 notebook w/Vista Ultimate 32.
Canon EOS 5D MkII DSLR.
|
Gus_Smedstad
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/02/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston 42° 16' N 71° 08' W
|
|
You should still make some sort of diffraction focusing mask (Hartman or the Bhatinov). It's not hard, and it takes a lot of the guesswork out of focusing.
One nice thing about the 40D / 450D and later is that you have full control for long, multiple exposures with the laptop.
That said, the cheapest solution to easy camera control for older Canons is a Photix TC 80N3 knock-off. Lots of people here have used them and reported they work.
Before I got a 40D, I used a TC 80N3 to control my exposures. It's fairly convenient.
- Gus
--------------------
Gus Smedstad
Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G
Orion 80mm f/11.4 guidescope
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
Canon 40D
Philips SPC900NC
|
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