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LadyAstronomer
Bookworm
Reged: 11/15/07
Posts: 2951
Loc: Library of Congress
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"The newly-discovered monster, known only by the catalogue number 2XMM J083026+524133, is estimated to contain as much mass as a thousand large galaxies. Much of it is in the form of 100-million-degree hot gas."
XMM-Newton’s massive discovery
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"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -- Sir Isaac Newton
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charlie g
sage
Reged: 10/05/07
Posts: 287
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Thanks for 'these mind stimulating perspective postings, lady astronomer'. What 'violent physical realms' we are nested in, and in small ways gropeing to understand!
My 'mind boogles' to ask you(not that you know...but I'd love your opinion as your postings go cosmic often): Is 'monster mass' different from the radically smaller 'super-massive Blackholes' at huge galaxies centers, and at our smaller galaxies center?
By physical state...a huge cloud of hot gas seems 'less dense/less massive/less monster...than the hard to conceptualize 'super Black Holes'.
And could we latter find in XMM, 'dark matter', which I've read is still an unexplained mystery in our mass calculations? Whatever the case, thanks for these outreaching posts, lady Astronomer! charlie guevara NJ,US
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Joel F.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/19/06
Posts: 1121
Loc: Overland Park, Kansas
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A large super massive blackhole may be of the order of 30,000,000 times the mass of the sun which is much smaller the the mass of a large cluster of galaxies.
What about the kinetic energy carried by a large cluster? In an email sent to me by Maxim Markevitch of Harvard University he indicated the kinectic energy of the bullet subcluster was of the order of 10^64 ergs.
Hope this helps.
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Joel Falk in Kansas
14.5" f/4.3 AstroSky with GOTO/Tracking and
Stevens Optics
10" Orion XTi
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charlie g
sage
Reged: 10/05/07
Posts: 287
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Hi Joel..my understanding is that 'most/ or a large number of galaxies' have central-massive blackholes at their centers. My 'hint' is that we often need 'consider the blackholes' when we talk of: galaxies...or clusters of galaxies. And I am totally clueless on where 'dark matter ' fits in this schema...locally and cosmically, I read 'dark matter' humbles/leaves astronomers and 'cosmologists' major unknowns...yet very apparent problems in conceptualizing our known universe.
Kinetic energy is 'almost trite' (F=MA, F=1/2MV squared), basic 'mechanics'...all over my head mind you.
Years ago (not that long ago actually), the term/the concept:dust...was thrown about in astronomical discussions. Huge 'dust clouds' were discussed...never:what is this dust? Where from?
'Hot gas', seems a similar unclear/'nebulous concept'. Kinetic energy 'beggs the question of:'WHAT MASS?'
Always great posts to 'trail off into', are fun, thanks, lady astronomer! charlie guevara NJ,US
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Darren Drake
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1044
Loc: Illinois
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I wonder how much more mass this cluster has than the Virgo cluster.
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Astronomy educator
Sidewalk astronomer
18 inch f4.42 dob on eq platform w ST120 f/5 finder
8 inch f/6 dob
8 inch f/8 eq planetkiller
William Optics red 10th Anniversary 80mm FD
24lb eyepiece box
Cernan Space Center astronomer
Member of Northwest Suburban Astronomers
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HiggsBoson
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/21/07
Posts: 809
Loc: Kal-li-fornia
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Quote:
“Such massive galaxy clusters are thought to be rare objects in the distant Universe. They can be used to test cosmological theories,” says Lamer. Indeed, the very presence of this cluster confirms the existence of a mysterious component of the Universe called dark energy.
I am not sure that I follow the logic here. Are they saying that due to the fact that this thing is 7.7 billion LY away the image that we see is 7.7 billion years old. But for Dark Energy we would expect to see such collections more commonly nearby? There seems to be no recent large collections therefore they are breaking up rather than forming more large collections!
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Michael
ATM: 6" F/9 Newtonian Travel Scope
ATM: 12.5" F/4.5 Real Soon Now...
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davidpitre
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 1410
Loc: Central Texas
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Quote:
I wonder how much more mass this cluster has than the Virgo cluster.
I was wondering this as well.
The mass of this cluster has been given as 5.6 x 10 exp 14 solar masses , which is in keeping with the statement of equal to roughly 2000 large galaxies. Since a typical galaxy cluster's mass is only a small part made up by galaxies themselves, I'm not sure what this means though.
I've seen a paper that calculates the Virgo cluster's mass as 1.2 x 10 exp 15 M.
I guess I'm missing something.
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