Oly Olson
super member
Reged: 02/17/08
Posts: 155
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Sorry for the noob question!
While out viewing with my 11" SCT tonight prior to moonrise I took a look at Neptune, then Uranus and finally since the go-to handset said it was available I selected Pluto.
My question is do you folks think it likely I did in fact see Pluto? The scope slewed to something dim and reddish in an area in relation to stars as I saw them on my charts and certainly I thought it was Pluto based on the information I had available. However, after grabbing a few shots of it with my DSLR and then showing them to a fellow camera nut he voiced doubt that I had found Pluto much less imaged it.
What do you folks think? My mount was slewing quite accurately this night so I know that it was certainly in the right area - do you think I could easily see Pluto with the C11 this past night before moonrise?
Thanks,
Oly
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tigerroach
sage
Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 315
Loc: Houston, TX
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Pluto should be within the range of your 11". It would not be an impressive sight, just a little mag 14 starlike object.
You can verify you have seen Pluto by tracking it for a few nights in a row, and seeing it move relative to the background stars. I have never had the patience to do that. 
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Brian
TeleVue TV-102, Gibralter alt-az mount
Webster 14.5" f/4.3 truss dob *under construction*
Canon 10x30 IS binocs
Edited by tigerroach (08/23/08 09:43 PM)
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BillFerris
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 2582
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Great question, Oly. Pluto is definitely within reach of an 11 inch scope under a good, dark sky. The challenge is distinguishing tiny, faint Pluto from the background stars. Pluto does not show any color; it appears as a stellar, 14th magnitude object. You can identify it using a printed DSS survey photo of the area in which Pluto resides. Compare the view in your eyepiece with the the DSS photo and Pluto will be the object not included in the photo.
Here's a link to Skyview's Query Form page: Link. Enter Pluto's coordinates (approx. 17 53 30, -17 15 00) and select the DSS option in the "Optical" survey menu. Then, scroll down to "Common Optoins" and click on "Submit Request." This will open a new window to present an image of an 8'.5 by 8'.5 region centered on Pluto's location.
To select a larger region for display, enter a field size of, say, 0.5 (degree) in the "Image Size (degrees)" field and change the "Image size (pixels)" field to 1200. If you click on the "Other Options" carrot, you can scroll down to the "Color Table" area and select "Use Inverse of Selected Table" to generate a negative (black stars on white background) presentation of the photo. Clicking on the "Overlays" carrot, you can select a coordinate overlay grid.
Printing the resulting image for use in the field will allow you to accurately identify Pluto at the eyepiece without having to wait some period of time for Pluto to exhibit noticeable motion against the background stars. And, although not much to look at, seeing the Solar Systems most enigmatic planet is a bit of a thrill when you consider that humanity's only been aware of its existence since 1930--less than 80 years.
Bill in Flag
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Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4312
Loc: Inner Solar System
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I've seen Pluto positively just one time, in an 8" newt. I drew the star field 2 nights apart, and it had moved. I was able to see it without using averted vision. I know I've seen it since, but those times, I couldn't be sure which faint star it was.
So, you most likely saw Pluto. It should be pretty easy with a C11.
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1812
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Pluto varies quite a bit in brightness from around 13.65 (brightest) to at least 15.1 (which several sites list as the average apparent magnitude) or even dimmer (there's a lot of conflicting data on just how dim it gets?!).
I caught it in October last year in my 15" scope at 340x but only by being able to catch stars down to 15.5 in the field which allowed me to pinpoint Pluto's position with absolute certainty. Pluto looked pretty dim - at least 14.3 by my estimate, even though Starry Nights and others listed it at 14.04 at the time I was observing. Comments that it can be caught in an 8" scope may well be true, for very experienced observers, but this would require good, dark skies and most likely observations on two separate nights to definitively identify it. Based on its appearance in the 15", I don't think I would like to try finding it in any thing a whole lot smaller!
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4312
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Well-l-l... I have to admit that I was camping on top of Mt. Graham in AZ when I made my observation. (This was before the scopes were built up there. Don't get me started on that!). At the time, IIRC, Pluto was listed at mag 13.7.
So, 8" is probably unrealistic from the city. But a C11 should be able to bag it.
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 6785
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Pluto varies quite a bit in brightness from around 13.65 (brightest) to at least 15.1 (which several sites list as the average apparent magnitude) or even dimmer (there's a lot of conflicting data on just how dim it gets?!).
I caught it in October last year in my 15" scope at 340x but only by being able to catch stars down to 15.5 in the field which allowed me to pinpoint Pluto's position with absolute certainty. Pluto looked pretty dim - at least 14.3 by my estimate, even though Starry Nights and others listed it at 14.04 at the time I was observing. Comments that it can be caught in an 8" scope may well be true, for very experienced observers, but this would require good, dark skies and most likely observations on two separate nights to definitively identify it. Based on its appearance in the 15", I don't think I would like to try finding it in any thing a whole lot smaller!
Actually, Pluto has been glimpsed in some rather surprisingly small telescopes. In the late 1980's and early 1990's, it was around magnitude 13.7 and was seen in scopes as small as four inches:
http://www.pietro.org/Astro_C5/Articles/PlutoCurrent.htm
Now, it is closer to 14th magnitude, so a six inch might be closer to the minimum aperture needed (along with a fairly dark sky). One does have to use moderate to high power to pick it up (between 100x and 200x is what I use in my 9.25 inch SCT), and a good star chart plotting stars down to fainter than 14th magnitude, but it isn't exactly terribly difficult if one knows exactly where to look. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4312
Loc: Inner Solar System
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That is my recollection of it.
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C
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Doug Neal
sage
Reged: 01/08/06
Posts: 217
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David and the group,
I took a two frame animation of Pluto with my 8" SCT and Canon XT. It's shown in the results in the link to the www.Pietro.org. So, a bigger scope will catch it too.
Douglas W. Neal
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Special Ed
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 3543
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
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It's been quite interesting reading about everyone's experiences observing Pluto (or trying to). My "quest" to confirm an observation of this distant speck began this past July at the Green Bank StarQuest. I had read an article in the June 2008 issue of S&T about observing Pluto which said don't let too many more years go by if you want to see it (it's already 250 times dimmer than Neptune and heading away from us). I've seen the eight planets but never this famous trans-Neptunian object, and I'm not getting any younger, so I figured I'd better try for it.
The StarQuest seemed a good time--the Moon was new and the skies were dark and transparent. It had been a busy evening with lots to see, but by 2AM most people had turned in and I turned my attention to Sagittarius high in the south.
Using charts that I had printed out from the S&T website, I focused the 8" SCT at 50x on the region just north of M23. When I was sure I was in the right area, I increased the magnification to 80x and then 169x as the star patterns matched what I saw on the charts. The view through the ep was north up but mirror-reversed, so I flipped the chart over and put my redlight under it to shine through and give me the mirror-reversed pattern. I could tell I was in the right spot and one of those faint dots was Pluto, but before I could sketch the starfield a very heavy dew descended and defeated my dewshield.
It had been a long day (and night), I was cold, wet, and slightly befuddled, so I decided to try again the next night figuring that I had done some good preparation work--after all, I had three more nights at Green Bank and I was hoping to make two separate observations to confirm my sighting. Unfortunately, that was the only clear night.
Since then it has been hard to find the opportunity with clear, transparent skies and no moon, but I haven't given up or forgotten. That's why this thread has been so interesting. Also, thanks to Bill Ferris for the suggestion about printing out a chart from the DSS. I might try that, although I would still like to make two observations to be sure.
Pluto has only moved about 1° from its position in July, so it shouldn't be hard to find square one and try again.
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Michael Rosolina
8" f/10 Orange Tube SCT
4.25" f/4.2 Astroscan Reflector
SVP 3.6" f/13.6 CA Reflector
40mm PST f/10
APM Germany HD 15x70 binoculars
Canon 12x36 IS II binoculars
Mark I Eyeball
My CN Gallery
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Doug Neal
sage
Reged: 01/08/06
Posts: 217
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Ed,
You have worked hard and are using a good systematic approach I hope by now you have been successful and hope to hear that good news soon.
Best wishes and clear, dewless skies.
Doug
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Special Ed
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 3543
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
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Thanks for the encouragement, Doug. Pluto is a personal challenge that I'm looking forward to meeting. I'll post my progress as it happens. I hope that Oly, the original poster, gets a confirmed observation of Pluto, too.
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Michael Rosolina
8" f/10 Orange Tube SCT
4.25" f/4.2 Astroscan Reflector
SVP 3.6" f/13.6 CA Reflector
40mm PST f/10
APM Germany HD 15x70 binoculars
Canon 12x36 IS II binoculars
Mark I Eyeball
My CN Gallery
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molniyabeer
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/08/05
Posts: 2062
Loc: Central Coast, California
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I went out last night to try for Pluto with my 10" dob from our dark site on Figueroa Mt. in the Los Padres Nat. Forest. It's not the absolutely darkest site but it's pretty good. I had several scales of finder charts and printed out the DSS star field (thanks, Bill!!).
Ok, well dark-adapted, 3500' elevation or so, dark site. Did I see it? I don't know... I know I found the right field but mag 14 was right on the hairy edge of my averted vision. The charts I printed from TheSky 6 only went down to mag 13. The DSS photo showed another star in the field near where Pluto should have been. I could *just* make that one out with averted. Nearby was another point of similar brightness (faintness?), again just visible with averted vision in my 5mm Hyperion/Paracorr combo. There were other fainter stars in the DSS photo but clearly well below my threshold. So, maybe I saw it but maybe not. Assuming it stays clear tonight, I might make another treck up the hill for a cross check to see if I can detect any motion.
FWIW, I had tried a month or two back and had similar results. It's just so doggone faint that I am not confident if I'm really seeing it or if it's just "noise" on the retina. Do I believe it because I saw it or did I see it because I believed it?
One of these days...
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Steve
16" Meade LightBridge (Beowulf)
10" Hardin DSH, StarMax 127mm Mak, PST H-a
Oberwerk 11 x 70 binocs, Tasco 10 x 50 binocs
Santa Maria Clear Sky Clock
Figueroa Mt Clear Sky Clock
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Oly Olson
super member
Reged: 02/17/08
Posts: 155
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Thanks so much for the replies folks. I've not had the chance to try again to positively identify and capture it, but I certainly intend to and this information has been invaluable.
Best,
Oly
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planetman83
member
Reged: 09/17/07
Posts: 46
Loc: Greece-Crete
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I wrote down some day the Pluto's coordinates and also printed 2 charts from starrynight, the 1st with 1 degree field and the 2nd with 15arcsec field.
I found the right field pretty easily through the coordinates and Uranometria 2000 and then confirmed it with the 1degree chart and low power. I was at the right place. Then I switched to 170x and with the 15arcsec field I managed to see it easily with averted vision like a 14mag starlike object with my 8" skywatcher dob. It was easier than I expected.
Edited by planetman83 (09/25/08 07:02 AM)
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KDizzle
member
Reged: 09/12/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Woodinville, WA
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I *believe* I saw pluto a few weeks ago on my then-CPC 800. Using the goto feature it slewed and I saw an extremely faint object. I didn't image it and it was certainly was not easy to see. You had to use averted vision and it was extremely dim. I'm pretty sure it worked for neptune; it was definitely bluish and non-flickery.
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