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ArkansasMaverick
member
Reged: 05/26/07
Posts: 78
Loc: Eureka Springs AR
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---What are the risks/rewards to buying scope’s and accessories second hand and used? I have noticed that there are a good number of scopes, EP’s and filters available at garage sales, in newspaper ads and online auctions.
---What do you look for or avoid buying if you find on scopes, eyepieces, mounts and filters?
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Eureka Springs AR.
N 36° 29.777 W 093° 43.800
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rocco13
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/06
Posts: 1550
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
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As always...buyer beware.
Know your (desired) gear, and if the seller doesn't seem to be as knowledgeable on the things he's selling, I'd steer away. However, there are those rare occasions when a family member passes away and the family is trying to unload scopes and accessories they know little about. But for normal transactions, a good rule of thumb is if the seller has the original boxes/cartons, the odds are good that he has taken good care of the merchandise also. Most astro-enthusiasts do treat their gear with kid gloves, but normal usage can show after a while.
I recently gambled on an old C8. I did get to see it in person, but couldn't look through it. The tripod wasn't original, it was dusty, and there were normal wear marks on the tube/forks from being a two decade old scope, but I took a chance and was pleasantly surprised by it's performance.
My Obsession was also picked up via classified ad, and I was also able to visually inspect it, and the original owner seemed to know as much about it as Dave Kriege. And of course it had been well taken care of.
On items that cannot be seen firsthand, I personally would keep those purchases limited to minor accessories such as filters and the occasional eyepiece, and not big items such as scopes and mounts. Just my two cents.
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Rocco
Super C8 (1984 vintage)
Celestron 102 f/5
and a cheap pair of binoculars
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Protheus
Vaguely offended
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 4659
Loc: Illinois, US
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Most of my gear is used. I find that astronomers tend to take pretty good care of their astronomy stuff. Of course, you need to watch out for the typical scams and so on. Buying from ebay is workable, if you can be relatively sure of what you're getting. Buying from craigslist is probably ok, if you can pick the item up in person. Buying from shop & swap has never let me down yet. Yardsales/swap meets/whatever are another thing entirely. I'd buy there too, if the seller doesn't mind you messing around with the equipment some before the purchase. Basically, the only thing to watch out for is that you get what you think you'll get. To that end, the more you know about various equipment, and how it should behave, and (sometimes) how to test it, the better.
The trade off is simple. You can get very reasonable prices for equipment, and you can choose from equipment that is no longer manufactured if you like. Doing so, on the other hand, means that you don't generally have the option of returning it if you don't like it, or even if it just doesn't work. That said, especially here on CN, you can generally get honest opinions of the equipment for sale from the seller and a few others who own it, so there aren't usually any surprises...
Chris
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"To tread the sharp edge of a sword;
to run on smooth-frozen ice,
one needs no footsteps to follow..."
"Well, people sometimes ask me 'how did you get involved in astronomy?' I said 'I got born, what's your problem?'" -- John Dobson
"In discussing the large-scale structure of the cosmos, astronomers sometimes say that space is curved, or that the universe is finite but unbounded. Whatever are they talking about?" -- Carl Sagan
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Zebra24601
Postmaster
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 7432
Loc: San Gabriel Valley, CA 91770
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Most of the things I didn't get on clearance were picked up second hand. I've also sold a good deal of equipment to others. In both cases (of buying and selling), it's helpful if both parties know exactly what they're getting and what to expect.
I haven't had any truely bad experiences buying, but I did see one etx-125 where if the seller had a better idea of the extent of damage and was better able to explain that on-line/over the phone, then I would not have wasted my time going there. On the other hand, it wasn't really bad, since all I lost was some time and gasoline.
I also had one unpleasant experience with a buyer who I thought wasted my time because he didn't know what was reasonable to expect in terms of price and quality.
Those were both on Craig's List, by the way. Perhaps surprisingly, I have had a whole slew of very pleasant and successful exchanges on e-Bay, and a smaller number of similarly successful exchanges via Shop and Swap.
I suppose that's just the breaks.
Overall, I highly recommend it, with the cavaet I noted above.
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Zebra24601
Meade 8" SCT w/UHTC * Celestron 100ED * Celestron C11 * Barska 15x70 binoculars
Meade LXD55 mount * Orion Sirius goto mount * Bushnell Voyager 4.5" Compact Reflector
Edited by Zebra24601 (09/05/08 07:52 PM)
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letimotif
no complaints
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1111
Loc: Far Flung Isles of Langerhans
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Probably half my scope purchases were used. Overall, I've found Astro mart a good investment in time and effort.
I think that having a seller who knows his/her equipment is best. While a knowledgeable seller will not let his equipment go for a song, you can be more assured that he will be able to tell if there are issues with the item for sale, or not. Think of it this way: an experienced amateur will return defective equipment so part of what you're purchasing is a vetting process.
Of the accessories I've bought used, such as eyepieces, the same would hold true.
Like everything else in life, if it sounds too good to be true . . .
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Celestron CPC 1100
Celestron C6R-GT
Orion 120ST
B&L Banner Astro 80mm
Astro Telescopes 'tis a mystery 80mm ED
Sundry Oddments
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?
Ad astra per aspera
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Exit-pupil
sage
Reged: 11/13/07
Posts: 206
Loc: Eastern Long Island, NY
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Everything I own is used - even if I originally bought it new. 
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Shawn H
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 1134
Loc: Southern France 43°56'N-4°50'E
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18" David Lukehurst truss Dobson (being built)
xt10i with Telrad on 4" risers & feather touch focuser & huge Boston Red Sox decal
Starblast
15x70 Celestron Skymasters
35Stratus
27Pan
13 Ethos
8 Ethos
Orion ultrablock
Astronomik OIII
Tele Vue 2x barlow
Antares 1.6x barlow (2")
CATSEYE collimation tools
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Shawn H
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 1134
Loc: Southern France 43°56'N-4°50'E
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Chris is probley right about astronomers taking good care of thier kit! I handle my stuff like newborn baby's, Buuttt I have always been skepticle about buying used optics! You guy's in the States have it made with a great used market! And even here on CN the guy's are graded on thier transactions. In France it dosen't work very well, theres not much choice soo we have to deal in the States with added postal & customs costs!  Shawn
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18" David Lukehurst truss Dobson (being built)
xt10i with Telrad on 4" risers & feather touch focuser & huge Boston Red Sox decal
Starblast
15x70 Celestron Skymasters
35Stratus
27Pan
13 Ethos
8 Ethos
Orion ultrablock
Astronomik OIII
Tele Vue 2x barlow
Antares 1.6x barlow (2")
CATSEYE collimation tools
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Paul Rix
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 2924
Loc: Zanesville, Ohio,USA
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I tend to buy most of my equipment used.
Lets see:
My LX200 was used but in great condition from a CN member, as was our LXD75 mount.
Orion ED80 & WO 66SD from Astromart
My first and second DSI cameras were bought second hand (I did buy my DSI Pro II new).
Bottom line is that you need to be careful, ask lots of questions (especially if you can't see the item first hand) and use trusted websites. I use Shop & Swap here on CN (rather than the classified section) for the most part but Astromart is great if you are looking for something specific.
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Climbing the Learning Curve
Meade 10" LX200 Classic: WO 66SD.
Philips SPC900NC, DMK21AU04.AS, Meade DSI Pro and DSI Pro II.
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Buck
sage
Reged: 04/29/05
Posts: 471
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The suggestions so far have been right on, from my point of view. While I have not used Swap-N-Shop on this site, I have purchased most of my equipment on Astromart which is another excellent site, and have been very happy.
Buck
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Bart
sage
Reged: 05/28/06
Posts: 238
Loc: Inside the (DC) Beltway
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All great advice.
My questions:
Can optics go bad? In other words, do mirror lose reflectivity as they get older? If so, how old does it have to be before it's a bad investment? What about glass optics? Do they age well? What other age related issues should the buyer be aware of?
Thanks
Bart
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Mead 12" LightBridge
Orion 127mm Mak
Orion 80ED
Orion Short Tube 80
Baader Hyperion 3.5,5,8,13,17,24mm
Baader Hyperion Aspheric 31mm
Orion Sirius 25mm
Celestron Plossl 4,6,9,15,32mm
Orion UltraView 10x50
Canon XTi
My two eyes
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John Carruthers
Skiprat
Reged: 02/02/07
Posts: 1705
Loc: Kent, UK
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Quote:
Can optics go bad? In other words, do mirror lose reflectivity as they get older? If so, how old does it have to be before it's a bad investment? What about glass optics? Do they age well? What other age related issues should the buyer be aware of? Thanks Bart
Mirrors can become spotted or tarnished, the time scale varies depending on air quality, how they've been treated and stored, and what they were coated with in the first place.
Poor care and handling can cause surface scratches too. A spotty mirror can be re-aluminised but a scratch is with you forever. 5 or 6 years in a sea air environment is ok, in clean air and closely covered they can last a lot longer.
Check out re-aluminising prices for your size mirror, P&P can double the cost on a larger mirror.
Lens coatings are quite tough and last a lifetime with care but again look out for scratches.
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Jc
ATM 10" F6.1, 1/25th wave spec (max wavefront error +/- 1/12.6 in zone 4 of 6, sodium light )
6" F7 spec
127mm F9.4 Refractor
10 x 50 bin
ETX80 (finder)
Canon 20D
and a curious mind
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desertrefugee
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Arizona
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Some of my most prized astronomical possessions were acquired used - from one source or another.
As noted, the key is to have a good understanding of what you're buying and, lacking the ability to personally inspect, to have a reasonably trustworthy source.
Both common sense suggestions that pertain to buying ANYTHING used.
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"Look now upon the River of Heaven, Sky-Road of the Immortals, White with the star-frost of a billion years".
+++
-Darrell
Reflectors (114, 150, 254mm), Refractors (60, 76.2, 80, 120), MCT (125), way too many Binoculars
Cave Creek/Carefree, AZ
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cuzimthedad
Just Be Cuz
Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 2730
Loc: Sonoma, Northern California
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Quote:
All great advice.
My questions:
Can optics go bad? In other words, do mirror lose reflectivity as they get older? If so, how old does it have to be before it's a bad investment? What about glass optics? Do they age well? What other age related issues should the buyer be aware of?
Thanks
Bart
A friend of mine has a 20" dob he brought over last month. While setting up I happened to be looking at the mirror with the sun setting behind the scope and you could see sunlight coming from the back side of the mirror. His optics were wearing thin and he will need a recoat soon. We have the same scope, mine being new, so we compared views on same objects using the same eyepieces and you could see a remarkable difference between the two with mine being superior. So off to the optics manufacturer for a recoat his mirror went.
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Dan
20" Obsession (Freedom I...aka cuzimthescope)
TV102 (Star Dagger)
LXD75 AR-6 (Phoenix)
Megrez 80SD
Antares 1529 (Awaiting arrival)
Bushnell 7X50 Binoc
Zhumell 20X80 Astro-binocs
EPs: TV 5,7,9,11 T6s, 17 & 22 T4s, 31T5, 13E.
The Off Fisher Lane Irregulars
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Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3725
Loc: Alabama, USA
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Coatings will degrade because of the action of sulfur dioxide and other contaminants that will get onto them eventually. But the glass can last for decades or longer. When the coatings need replacement, they are removed with a chemical solution which does not affect the glass beneath. Optics can last far beyond a human lifetime, I once used a 12-inch F/15 Alvan Clark refracting telescope that was made in 1877 to observe the scars on Jupiter left by the impact of comet Shoemaker-Levy9 back in 1994. The objective lens was still in mint condition. I have a 6-inch F/8 whose mirror is now nearly 30 years old and works as well today as the day I got it so long ago. As long as they're not mishandled or cleaned improperly, used optics do not deteriorate unless there's something wrong with the glass itself. If the glass was made and annealed properly from the outset, the only thing that can go wrong with it is getting scratched or outright breakage due to improper care and handling.
Taras
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10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
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DLaw
super member
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 176
Loc: Lubbock, TX
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I have had good experience on Astromart. Traded for my first scope (90mm/f11 Orion) and bought my intelliscope used. Have been very happy with both.
A short while ago I did find an 8" Meade SCT with GPS on craigslist (Albuquerque) for $150 - said he was moving back east and couldn't take it with him. I shot the seller an email asking some basic questions concerning the scope (like model number, age, condition) - no reply and the ad disappeared within an hour of me sending the email. I believe it was probably a stolen scope. It had been listed a month before as well for the same price.
As usual use common sense. Too good to be true ...
MHO ... I've had good experience with Astromarters.
David
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Orion XT8i
Orion Skyview Pro 90mm/f11
Celestron EP Kit
Orion Epic 25mm & Sirius 40mm
Oberwerks 9x60
Astromart ID: bamboozled
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