Fhuyu
member
Reged: 07/06/08
Posts: 25
Loc: 3rd Rock
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Another vote for the Nagler 31T5, really good ER. My favourite eyepiece 
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Tele Vue-85
Coronado PST (DS on the road)
Televue Zoom 3-6mm, Meade UWA 4,7mm.
Ethos 13, TermiNagler 31, Hyperion 8-24mm.
Masuyama: 20mm, 25Wmm, 30mm.
Vixen Skypod
Tele Vue Tele-Pod
Bresser 10x50
Canon EOS 400D
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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"
A similar series is currently being sold by a number of dealers at much higher prices. While we do not say our eyepieces are the equal of the $600 brand, these are quite good especially at our price! There are some limits with very fast scopes because of problems at the edge of the field, but I believe you will love the results. Most people do even with some very fast scopes. All of our new ultra-black design eyepieces in this series have an indent which allows you to hold them in place with less pressure on the set screws. A lot of thought has gone into this new series.
The 30 mm is a $100 eyepiece that we sell for less than $75. We can do this because we import them directly. This turns out to be a great benefit to our customers because we are able to offer the same eyepieces at competitive prices. You save money because we can pass our savings along to you. "
What exactly is the clone of this eyepiece? Or rather what is this eyepiece the clone of?
If the OWL 50 dollar 80 degree fov eyepiece is the same as like some other 80 degree chinese eyepiece, perhaps this isnt all that bad?
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4460
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Quote:
The 30 mm is a $100 eyepiece
As far as i know, this EP has been out under many labels:
Moonfish, BW-Optik, 1RPD... maybe some others.
It ain't bad in an SCT, very easy to use.
But it was fairly ugly in my F4.55 Dob... the "outer third" deal.
Mine, the BW-Optik variant, went bye-bye with the SCT when it sold.  I'm still wandering around, seeking to replace its function in my Dob set-up. It'll be a $250-300 EP before i'm done, pretty sure.
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
 Pacheco State Park
 Fremont Peak
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3362
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
Has anyone had problems with blackouts on the 22 t4?
I did the first time I looked into it but after adjusting the eye guard I have not had the problem since. I would rather have too much eye relief than too little.
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Pentax PF-80ED
Meade 102ED APO
Orion EON 72
120ST
Apex 127
C6 XLT
CR150
C9.25
XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL
Canon 10x42L IS WP
15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45
Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 858
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Quote:
Most of the low cost UWAs (80* by definition ) work decently in "slower" optical systems- F8 Newts, F10 Cats, F14 Cass's. But when tried in "fast" optics like Dobs, they'll present very unsightly sights... the outer 1/3 FoV is seriously mushy for stars. 
I dunno Mike, the UWA's might not be the best but the consensus is that they are in fact sharp across the field. Mike Hosea has a couple reviews of the 8.8 and the 4.7 on this forum and never does he complain about "mushyness" especially as early in the FOV as you claim. I used my 8.8 in a friends Orion Starblast F5 reflector and sharpness was right on until maybe the last 2%-3% and who sees that anyways? The Nags have issues at the very edge too. Any eyepiece does.
It could be scope-related, I dunno. But like i said, 1/3 of the field being mushy is not what most are seeing and seems to be a worst-case scenario. Several reviews have confirmed this. The UWAs have actually been compared pretty favorably to team green and I concur with that. 
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Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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Albie
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/22/05
Posts: 3521
Loc: Alberta,Canada
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The most comfortable ep I've used is easily the 26mmT5 Nagler.No issues whatsoever.I've tried/owned 7.5mm and 10mm Speers Walers,7mm Uwan,5T6 7T6 9T6 13T6 16T5 17T4 26T5 Naglers and a 24mm Meade Uwa.
The 16T5 would be my second choice.If I were to include all the other 40°, 50°, 52°, 60°,68° and 70° eyepieces I've owned the 26T5 and the 16T5 would still be my choices 
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Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Dob with Moonlight CR1
Televue 2x barlow and 5T6,7T6,9T6,16T5 and 26T5 Televue Naglers.
SkyMaster 15x70,Regal LX 8x42 and Noble 10x28
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Zebra24601
Postmaster
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 7432
Loc: San Gabriel Valley, CA 91770
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Quote:
Quote:
Brooklyn says: "I notice that the eyepieces in the 82 degree FOV group are all under 20mm eye relief."
Well then, consider the OWL 80 degree eyepieces.
The 30mm, which I have, has 28mm of eye relief!
With the barlow element to make it a 20mm it still has
24mm of eye relief. The 15mm has 20mm of eye relief.
And there is no kidney beaning.
They are all well under $100 so are frequently over looked.
Except people like me that cannot afford a Nagler!
George I am actually thinking very long and hard about what my next eyepiece purchase will be. The Owl eyepiece are extremely tempting to me.
But let me ask you...
http://www.owlastronomy.com/ultrawide.htm
These are:
16 MM Ultra-Wide Angle - 1.25 inch
Design: 6-elements in 4 groups
Field of View: 80°
Eye Relief: 20 mm
Is this for real? Sorry I never even looked at this eyepiece before. I figured 80 degree FOV for only 50 bucks? That must mean its low quality.
I am a HUGE fan of the 30mm UWA 2" eyepiece; it's my most used eyepiece and it works great in my SCT. However, I also know from direct experience that it won't "work" in a faster focal length dob. Last year, while set up at Mt. Pinos, I let my "neighbor" try it with his Orion dob (10", I think). It was unacceptable. Couldn't get a sharp focus and the stars were all stretched out.
By contrast, the OWL 11mm and 16mm 1 1/4" UWA eyepieces did not shake my tree. Not enough eye relief to use the field of view.
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Zebra24601
Meade 8" SCT w/UHTC * Celestron 100ED * Celestron C11 * Barska 15x70 binoculars
Meade LXD55 mount * Orion Sirius goto mount * Bushnell Voyager 4.5" Compact Reflector
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: Redlands, CA
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The 30mm UWA, $80 at the time, was pretty bad in my f/4.9 dob. Maybe with a 2x barlow it would be OK as a 15mm.
As for T6's I bought and quickly sold a 9mm T6 years ago. Head placement issues, kidney beaning, etc.
Just bought a 13mm T6 and apparently my ability to hold head placement has gotten a lot better over the years. Very comfortable. Go figure.
Mike
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16" f/4.9 dob
Tele Vue Plossls 32,25,20,15,11
13 Nagler T6
10.5 Pentax XL
Brandon 32, 16
12.5 UO ortho, 9 Circle T ortho
2x TV Barlow
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Peyn
member
Reged: 04/12/08
Posts: 91
Loc: Cupertino (Bay Area), CA
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Does anyone here use any of the T4's with glasses? Are they any comfortable? I mean, can you see the whole FOV WITH glasses on, without cramming your eye into the lens?
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"JERUSALEM - Albert Einstein's long-lost telescope, forgotten for decades in a Jerusalem storage shed, goes on display this week after three years and $10,000 spent restoring the relic...."
"What could possibly have driven the cost that high? It seems to be a very simple instrument."
"It used quantum optics. Restoration was fraught with uncertainty."
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 7635
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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With the 22T4 even an eyepiece/eye relief critic like myself can take in the entire FOV with my thick glasses on.
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Kenny
"When dealing with a mystery,choose the most unlikely of the likely possibilities"-Sherlock Holmes
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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entire FOV with glasses? Hmm thats pretty encouraging then. I always had in the back of my mind that the televue offerings are the best at almost everything they do, but the issue is always price of course.
Maybe i should just save myself buying 2 different eyepieces and go strait for the televue.
Perhaps with the 17mm ethos coming, they will drop prices on the 80 degree eps.
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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astrodon
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 1347
Loc: Hillsboro, OR, USA
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For me the 22mm T4 at 19mm of ER is comfortable with my glasses. The 17mm T4 and 12mm T4 at 17mm of ER is starting to get a little close, but I can still see the whole field, perhaps with a little nudge of my glasses towards my face. The 12mm can be a little critical of eye positioning as is the old 14mm Meade UWA flat top, but they don't kidney bean near as bad as the 13mm T1.
But if you're into the ease of taking in the whole field at once with the most comfortable ER, then my preference would be the Pentax XW (I own the 30mm) and Hyperions (used to own the 13mm).
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Don Miller
Meade 16" f4.5 in a hot water heater tube!
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Question...when you observe with glasses on do you press the glass of the glasses against the rubber eyecup?
Got my first pair of glasses 2 weeks ago, and the only clear night I have had is coming up tomorrow.
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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sixela
Postmaster
Reged: 12/23/04
Posts: 9499
Loc: Boechout, Belgium
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Quote:
Has anyone had problems with blackouts on the 22 t4?
Problems, no, but that's the flip side of long eye relief (and one of the reasons I don't like it that much): it's harder to place your eye over the exit pupil. You do get used to it, though.
The Instadjust eyeguard does help; I have to fully extend it and even then it's not quite enough.
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400mm f/4.46 David Lukehurst truss Dobsonian on Tom Osypowski equatorial platform
Orion Starblast (114mm f/4 reflector, Alt/Az)
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sixela
Postmaster
Reged: 12/23/04
Posts: 9499
Loc: Boechout, Belgium
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Quote:
But if you notice something interesting waay over near the edge, and wanna take a better look at it- you're eye WILL roll that direction to get it nearer to "center" in your vision. The next thing most folks do is actually slew the scope over to it, to GET it centered in the EP's FoV.
Kind of beats the purpose of a wide field eyepiece (if I had that observing style, I'd tend to stick with 68° AFOV eyepieces).
I gaze at all the parts of the field in even an Ethos; that's what I like about it: the feeling of standing out in space and looking around. After some time, you unconsciously move your head in compensation when you gaze at the edge.
Quote:
An UWA with *short* ER wii [sic] definitely require you to move your head & eye around to see the entire FoV;
Physics don't agree with your observation, as the distance the eye pupil travels when you rotate to the edge only depends on the size of your eyeball and the size of the AFOV, not the eye relief. So the amount of compensatory head movement necessary is the same. For some people, it'll be "harder" to compensate on short eye relief eyepieces because of an unconscious fear of hitting the eyepiece, but in my experience, that's a very short-lived feeling (and once you've adapted to a 16T5 you'll adapt to anything ).
Shorter *focal length* does help because the exit pupil becomes smaller relative to the eye pupil, so your observation about the 12T4 is probably coupled to its relative short focal length with respect to other eyepieces you may have tested.
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400mm f/4.46 David Lukehurst truss Dobsonian on Tom Osypowski equatorial platform
Orion Starblast (114mm f/4 reflector, Alt/Az)
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sixela
Postmaster
Reged: 12/23/04
Posts: 9499
Loc: Boechout, Belgium
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Quote:
I dunno Mike, the UWA's
He meant the cheap Chinese $50-$100 ones, not the Meade UWAs.
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400mm f/4.46 David Lukehurst truss Dobsonian on Tom Osypowski equatorial platform
Orion Starblast (114mm f/4 reflector, Alt/Az)
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 858
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
I dunno Mike, the UWA's
He meant the cheap Chinese $50-$100 ones, not the Meade UWAs.
Awe...my bad!! 
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Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 858
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Quote:
Most of the low cost UWAs (80* by definition ) work decently in "slower" optical systems- F8 Newts, F10 Cats, F14 Cass's. But when tried in "fast" optics like Dobs, they'll present very unsightly sights... the outer 1/3 FoV is seriously mushy for stars.
While i haven't tried the $50 Owl UWAs myself, i'd be really surprised if they showed well in anything faster than ~F8. I have no idea why they'd draw the line at "F4.5". They might work out decently for your 8" SCT, tho. 
I use a Nagler 12mm T4, and its ER allows me to pleasantly & easily see the ENTIRE field all-at-once... no rolling of the eyes is required to *see* it all. But if you notice something interesting waay over near the edge, and wanna take a better look at it- you're eye WILL roll that direction to get it nearer to "center" in your vision. The next thing most folks do is actually slew the scope over to it, to GET it centered in the EP's FoV.
An UWA with *short* ER wii definitely require you to move your head & eye around to see the entire FoV; Viewing straight ahead gives the sensation of "boundless" field, simply 'cuz you can't *see* the fieldstop all-at-once.
The latter is NOT my preference. That's why the 12T4 works so well, in my personal estimation!
SEEING is believing.
Mike - Totally sorry about my previous reply. I thought you meant the Meade UWA 5000 series which I find pretty good!
Sorry brutha! 
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Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4460
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Quote:
For some people, it'll be "harder" to compensate on short eye relief eyepieces because of an unconscious fear of hitting the eyepiece...
Or in the case of an EP with "medium" ER, the fear of scratching up your eyeglasses on its top.  That was the ONE "rub" i found on the BW-Optik used... absence of a rubber eyeguard, a bare-metal top. 
When viewing bare-eyed, my long lashes also make it uncomfortable to creep in too close-- so for a whole variety of reasons you are exactly right!
Quote:
Sorry brutha!
No worries, dude. This serves to really illustrate the W-I-D-E gap in performance out there, particularly in the UWA end of the pond... and why many of us are reluctant to try a "new" line of EPs priced unbelievably good!
Yet the general trend has been upward in quality & performance.  Like with the new "Sterling" Ploessls BillP has been posting about!
Good for us!
mike b
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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