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StarsAbove
sage
Reged: 09/09/05
Posts: 203
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I recently purchased a 102mm f/7 achromat from Astro Telescopes to complement my CPC800. I was looking for a grab 'n go scope. While the CPC is a great scope with a rock steady mount, it is a 'lug n' tug' rather than a grab n' go.
The big question for me was, "what mount should I use?" I wanted a lightweight but sturdy alt-az mount with GOTO capabilities. It also should be able to hold my CPC800 should I choose to defork it. I had seen a number of reviews and comments about the new iOptron Mini Tower mount in magazines and on CN. I decided that this was the mount that I wanted.
The iOptron Mini Tower is advertised as being able to handle up to a 25 pound payload. My achromat weighed in at around 8# and the CPC800 OTA was about 13#. So the iOptron looked like it would fit the bill.
The next question to answer was from whom to buy the mount. All the vendors sell the mount for the same price, $799. I eventually settled on Trapezium Telescopes out of New Hampshire since they were offering free shipping at the time AND the owner, Steve Forbes, personally tested each unit before shipping it to the customer. Trapezium also sends a summary report of the testing results. A nice valuable touch. At this point I should add the standard discliamer that I am in no way affiliated with Astro Telscopes, Trapezium Telescopes or Celestron.
So I ordered the iOptron Mini Tower from Trapezium. It arrived intact in two shipping cartons, one for the tripod and one for the aluminum boxed iOptron unit.
I finally caught a clear night a few days later and got my first opportunity to test out a new 102mm achromat and the Mini-Tower.
First I oriented the scope to the south by aiming the arrow on the base of the unit towards the south. Then I attempted to use the built-in bubble level to level the scope. I found it very difficult to level the scope using the three adjustment screws. Apparently what I failed to consider was those 3 screws could not compensate for the tripod being seriously out of level! So I adjusted the tripod legs to make the iOptron appear level to the eye. Then it was very easy to use the 3 adjustments screws to finish the job. Finally I pointed the scope to the zenith and leveled the scope by eye.
Being that I was doing all this in my front yard with towering trees and homes all about and where I can see more street lights than stars, I did not have much choice about how I was going to do my alignment. A One star alignment it was!
I figured this would give me a very good indicator of just how well the iOptron can handle alignment. I flipped on the power, got a 'GPS ON' signal. I did not have to reconfigure the hand control settings since they were already configured by Steve in NH. I got a 'GPS OK' signal in about 30 seconds. So, with Jupiter in plain view in the south, I picked it for my alignment object. I then did a "sync to object" from the menu. Then I did a GOTO to M8. Now mind you I could not see any nebulosity due to the light pollution and moon light but I knew from the star pattern that I was on target.
But to be sure, I did a GOTO to Alberio. Bang, just to the right of dead center. Then on to Vega. Ditto. Then back to Jupiter. No problems. At this point I knew I was going to like this mount!
So with the moon on the rise, I said time for a look. Slew to the moon. No Moon! What? How can it miss the moon? Well, it didn't. That huge tree in front of it blocked the moon...
So, I thought, here is a real test. I picked up the whole rig and stepped back about 2 or 3 feet to clear the tree. Then I manually slewed to the moon and did a sync. Then I did a GOTO to Jupiter. It was off (predictably) but only by a degree in altitude or so. So I manually slewed again and did another sync. To make a long story short, after that everything that I did a GOTO on was now back in the FOV.
So I am very impressed with the ease of use and accuracy of the iOptron Mini-Tower. The only question left for me now is do I defork my CPC800 and put it on the Mini-Tower! The CPC is a great scope on a totally rock solid mount. But that puppy is super heavy and does not lend itself to grab 'n go. The iOptron on the other hand is perfect for grab 'n go.
With a light rap on the tube, I found settling times to be about 1/2 second. If I really banged the tube, it took about 1 second to settle. Not bad at all.
Since the scope only weighs in at around 8.5#, it was not necessary to use the counterweight. The motors were reasonably quiet and very smooth in operation. If I mount the CPC, at 13#, it will be necessary to use the counterweight.
I found the mount to be more than adequate to handle the 102mm scope. There was no flexure or instability. At only 5 pounds more, it ought to handle the C8 OTA easily as well.
All in all, my experience with the iOptron Mini Tower has been a thoroughly great experience.
Clear Skies,
-------------------- David
CPC 800 XLT
102mm f/7 Achromat
41º32'N 81º32'W
http://astro.lightarts.net
Edited by StarsAbove (09/21/08 07:07 AM)
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jasonj998
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Posts: 17
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I decided to own the minitower because I had good experience with the rather small Cube mount before. When the Minitower was available and after read some positive discussions, I bought the minitower and gave the Cube to my brother who has borrowed it for a few times. My first test of the unit was during day time by goto the sun. Unfortunately I always got the tube pointing to the ground. Finally I realized my 8401 was set at equ mode. After reset it to Alt-azi mode, the mount did right thing brought the scope to the sun. I like this mount in almost every aspect. Compared to the Cube which I had no issue with, this one is probably 1-2 notches better. CS
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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David My experience with the Mini was pretty much identical to yours. Because of the light pollution, alignment stars are scarce. I just point my scope to a star or planet I know, slew towards it, loosen the clutches, get close, tighten clutches, use hand controller to center and hit "sync to object" and that's it! If I'm not happy where the next object lands in field of vision, I just center it and hit sync again. Great go to results. Don
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DNTash
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 09/02/07
Posts: 629
Loc: New Delhi, India
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David -- if you still have the shipping boxes around, can you tell me the measurements of each box? I need to factor that into my shipping considerations. Thanks!
Dale
-------------------- WO 66 Doublet
Meade ETX-90PE
WO "Crayford-ed" Orion 120ST
SkyMaster 15x70's, Meade Safari Pro 8x42's, Nikon Monarch 10x42's
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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
   
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1116
Loc: New Hampshire
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David:
Thank you very much. I'm glad that you are happy with the mount.
Dale:
The tipod obx measures 9" x9" x31 " and weighs 15 pounds. The Mini Tower box is 14" x 14" x 9" and weighs 30 pounds.
CS
Steve
-------------------- Steve Forbes
6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
2x 6" f/6 Edmund Palomar reflectors on GEMs w/ RA and DEC drives
2x 4-1/4" Edmund Palomar Jr. reflectors on GEMS w/ RA drives, (all circa 1965 - 69)
3" Edmund reflector on "EQ" mount from @1963
4" Criterion reflector with "EQ" mount from @1956.
150mm f/12 MAK w/iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!
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DNTash
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 09/02/07
Posts: 629
Loc: New Delhi, India
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Thanks Steve. Much appreciated.
-------------------- WO 66 Doublet
Meade ETX-90PE
WO "Crayford-ed" Orion 120ST
SkyMaster 15x70's, Meade Safari Pro 8x42's, Nikon Monarch 10x42's
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StarsAbove
sage
Reged: 09/09/05
Posts: 203
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Well, I see Steve already answered you.
Clear Skies anyway,
-------------------- David
CPC 800 XLT
102mm f/7 Achromat
41º32'N 81º32'W
http://astro.lightarts.net
Edited by StarsAbove (09/21/08 07:03 AM)
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DNTash
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 09/02/07
Posts: 629
Loc: New Delhi, India
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Thanks David -- he did. Clear skies to you, too.
-------------------- WO 66 Doublet
Meade ETX-90PE
WO "Crayford-ed" Orion 120ST
SkyMaster 15x70's, Meade Safari Pro 8x42's, Nikon Monarch 10x42's
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Jimyw123
newbie
Reged: 09/23/08
Posts: 1
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Long time reader but first time posting. Hello to all! I tried the goto on minitower without initial alignment but starting from the parking position I left from a week ago, it hit everything I asked for, never miss! Amazing! Love it. Jimmy
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coopman
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/23/06
Posts: 1205
Loc: South Louisiana
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Will this mount handle a C9.25 OTA? I think that a C11 OTA is out of the question though, huh? I'm thinking that getting one of these mounts and an SCT OTA would end up being much cheaper than a CPC set-up.
-------------------- Regards,
Clay
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalms 19:1
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FAB
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 2324
Loc: Blythe, CA USA
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Quote:
Long time reader but first time posting. Hello to all! I tried the goto on minitower without initial alignment but starting from the parking position I left from a week ago, it hit everything I asked for, never miss! Amazing! Love it. Jimmy
Welcome to Cloudy Nights. Glad to have you with us.
FAB
-------------------- Floie
10.0" Hardin Dob
6.0" Konus Refractor
3.0" Celestron Tabletop Newtonian
10X50 Binoculars
Bristoscope 772212 Microscope
http://home.earthlink.net/~blhtvl
&
http://home.earthlink.net/~astroclub
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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
   
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1116
Loc: New Hampshire
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Clay:
Welcome to the group.
Yes, there are several Mini Towers that are now sporting C9.25's with excellent results.
I have yet to get my hands on a C11 to use for testing on the Mini so I cannot give you an informed answer.
Cheap is a relative term. What really counts is the value perceived in comparison to the cost.
CS
Steve
-------------------- Steve Forbes
6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
2x 6" f/6 Edmund Palomar reflectors on GEMs w/ RA and DEC drives
2x 4-1/4" Edmund Palomar Jr. reflectors on GEMS w/ RA drives, (all circa 1965 - 69)
3" Edmund reflector on "EQ" mount from @1963
4" Criterion reflector with "EQ" mount from @1956.
150mm f/12 MAK w/iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!
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RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 803
Loc: Virginia
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Quote:
Will this mount handle a C9.25 OTA? I think that a C11 OTA is out of the question though, huh? I'm thinking that getting one of these mounts and an SCT OTA would end up being much cheaper than a CPC set-up.
My C11 weighs 32 pounds, with diagonal and eyepiece, etc. That's over the rated capacity of the Mini-Tower - but you would have to try it to be sure.
I think your idea has merit, but don't think it's any cheaper; it's just a better idea, IMHO. Personally, I won't get one of those "single system" units again. I originally bought a CPC 1100, but when the motor control board died after only three months, I was forced to send the whole unit back to Celestron for warranty service. No telescope for six weeks. 
If you have a separate mount and OTA, you can change mounts if there are problems.
My .02,
Ron
-------------------- Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT "Time Machine II"
Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier
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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
   
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1116
Loc: New Hampshire
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Ron:
You can find other postings here and elsewhere in which I state that I have had well over the "rated" load on my Mini. I've had a 4" f/15 refractor which weighs 25 pounds on one side and a counterweight and 152mm MAK on the other side. Total weight was just shy of 45 pounds. It took the load easily. The only problem was that the 4" f/15 OTA was too darned long to clear the tripod legs! I'm building a tripod extension to resolve that problem.
Six weeks without a scope sounds awful! That's almost as bad as 8 weeks of non-stop rain and T-storms as we had here in New England this past excuse for a summer!!
Yes, having separate components helps a lot. So does having backup equipment. Kind of like having a main and a reserve chute when you step out that side door!! LOL
CS
Steve
-------------------- Steve Forbes
6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
2x 6" f/6 Edmund Palomar reflectors on GEMs w/ RA and DEC drives
2x 4-1/4" Edmund Palomar Jr. reflectors on GEMS w/ RA drives, (all circa 1965 - 69)
3" Edmund reflector on "EQ" mount from @1963
4" Criterion reflector with "EQ" mount from @1956.
150mm f/12 MAK w/iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!
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jasonj998
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Posts: 17
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Wow, Steve, you are really pushing the mini to a sky limit! If you test C11 successfully, but I doubt about you can, IOptron should rename the mini to giant without any modification and price it at $2008. It is good news; I will not risk my unit for more than 25 lb though. CS, Jason
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RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 803
Loc: Virginia
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Quote:
You can find other postings here and elsewhere in which I state that I have had well over the "rated" load on my Mini. I've had a 4" f/15 refractor which weighs 25 pounds on one side and a counterweight and 152mm MAK on the other side. Total weight was just shy of 45 pounds. It took the load easily. The only problem was that the 4" f/15 OTA was too darned long to clear the tripod legs! I'm building a tripod extension to resolve that problem.
Six weeks without a scope sounds awful! That's almost as bad as 8 weeks of non-stop rain and T-storms as we had here in New England this past excuse for a summer!!
Yes, having separate components helps a lot. So does having backup equipment. Kind of like having a main and a reserve chute when you step out that side door!! LOL
Steve,
I agree. I have also seen loads over rated capacity that worked fine. I'm not familiar enough with the M-T to know, but many mounts I see are "tripod limited". The mount's axles, bearings, and gears can handle the load (as long as it remains static), but the tripod legs are stressed and that's what starts the wiggling and jiggling. As for me - I removed that OTA from those forks ASAP and went back to equatorial mounts. Life is good again. 
Sorry about all that bad weather. Total bummer.
I am with you on decent equipment and backup gear, but I only drove the plane and watched the other guys leave. I would never intentionally jump out of one that is still working. 
Take care,
Ron
-------------------- Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT "Time Machine II"
Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier
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Tom Trusock
   
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27299
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Quote:
Quote:
Will this mount handle a C9.25 OTA? I think that a C11 OTA is out of the question though, huh? I'm thinking that getting one of these mounts and an SCT OTA would end up being much cheaper than a CPC set-up.
My C11 weighs 32 pounds, with diagonal and eyepiece, etc. That's over the rated capacity of the Mini-Tower - but you would have to try it to be sure.
I think your idea has merit, but don't think it's any cheaper; it's just a better idea, IMHO. Personally, I won't get one of those "single system" units again. I originally bought a CPC 1100, but when the motor control board died after only three months, I was forced to send the whole unit back to Celestron for warranty service. No telescope for six weeks.
If you have a separate mount and OTA, you can change mounts if there are problems.
My .02,
Ron
FWIW, settle times are too long for my liking with about a 20lb load (5+ seconds at moderate power). (I was using a pair of refractors.) An SCT might do a little better because of the shorter moment arm, but I think a 9.25 would be pushing it, and based on my experience there's no way I'd recommend a c11. (I have a C11 and had hoped to put it on there myself - would make a very nice lightweight travel mount but after seeing the performance of the minitower with the refractors - nope.)
YMMV. Remember, at least in part it depends on what you consider acceptable settle times.
I wish they'd used 2" legs for the tripod.
T
-------------------- There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
   
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1116
Loc: New Hampshire
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Jason:
Exceed your limits! That is what ANY good Drill Sergeant would say! LOL! Now you have issued a challenge, too! As soon as I find one of my club members with a C11...!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Ron:
I agree that on EVERY system it seems that the tripods are the true limiting factor. Maybe we should just push the accountants out the door and hand them a laundry bag instead of a chute! LOL
By the way, it was YOUR flying that MADE us want to jump!! (OK. I delivered a Size Eleven Exit Assist for some of the boys, but, we won't tell about that!) BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Tom:
I sincerely believe that the Mini has been under rated in weight capacity. At least for the mount head itself. I, too, would like to see a 2" tripod for the Mini Tower. I have a customer that has a C9.25 on his Mini and it dampens the vibrations in about 1 to 2 seconds. He's very happy with the results. As you noted, one's mileage may vary.
I'm just about done building the tripod extension for the supplied tripod and will have the Mini on my Atlas tripod very soon. THEN we will see what she can take!! LOL
CS
Steve
-------------------- Steve Forbes
6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
2x 6" f/6 Edmund Palomar reflectors on GEMs w/ RA and DEC drives
2x 4-1/4" Edmund Palomar Jr. reflectors on GEMS w/ RA drives, (all circa 1965 - 69)
3" Edmund reflector on "EQ" mount from @1963
4" Criterion reflector with "EQ" mount from @1956.
150mm f/12 MAK w/iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!
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SteveC
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/15/06
Posts: 1175
Loc: The Garden State
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Hi Steve,
My only concern with your estimate is that the sample size is too small. How well will the mount perform after about a year, or more importantly after the warranty expires, of heavy use(pushing the limits)? If I were a dealer, worried about returns......................................
-------------------- SteveC
TEC 140
Intes Micro 715 deluxe
WO Zenithstar 80 FD
SolarMax 40
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini, DM-6 w/Sky Commander on SV wood tripod, Vixen Skypod
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2423
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Quote:
My only concern with your estimate is that the sample size is too small. How well will the mount perform after about a year, or more importantly after the warranty expires, of heavy use(pushing the limits)? If I were a dealer, worried about returns......................................
This is a concern to me as well... as it was when I earlier questioned (or agreed with the questioning of) the use of nylon gears in the mount. I'm from the generation where plastic started being used in place of metal, and invariably meant "cheap". 1950's. I realize that nowadays, nylon/other variations can actually be better in certain applications than metal, but it needs to be proven to me that it is better. And, 45 years experience in electronics- as a technician also gives me cause for concern. Is it built up to a standard- or down to a price? So far, the mount sounds good. But over time will be the telling truth. If it's built down to a price, things that can happen- especially when loading it heavily- especially over its rated load, is driver chips/transistors can run hot... load resistors run hot... excess heat can lead to- first, discoloration- then charring of circuit boards/delamination of runs. These are the kinds of failures that show up over the long haul, and I don't want to invest $$$'s into a mount that will fail after a year or two. That's why I just spent $2K on a loaded up Half Hitch mount- because of the quality. I'd rather spend more, for, say- a Losmandy GM-8 than half the $$$'s on a lesser mount that the durability/quality is an unknown/unproven quantity. I've learned over my life that it never pays to buy cheap quality. I hope I'm not correct about this in the iOptron mount... it sounds impressive. But putting it on a tripod to start with that isn't up to the rest of the mount is exactly the kind of thing I'm addressing here... it seems to me that it should have come on the 2" leg tripod to begin with. I'm going to at least wait until it's available with that to consider purchase... which I am considering. But I don't want to have an extra tripod to have lying around; I'd want the 2" to begin with- and I hope it will eventually be offered in that configuration. I won't consider purchase of it with the lesser tripod, knowing full well I'll have to buy another tripod for it right off the bat to be happy with it.
-------------------- Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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