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jcham21
sage
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Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
6" F/15 Refractor Project
      #2657218 - 09/22/08 07:43 PM

In this thread I will show my journey through making a 6" F/15 achromatic refractor. I am a physics/math undergrad at Louisiana State University and I decided to make my own telescope as my senior research project. I am hoping to get some great planetary views once the project is complete.

I started the initial planning of the project around January 2008. I bought the book "Making A Refractor Telescope" by Norman Remer and read it about 5 times. The book suggested that I make a 4" mirror as a preliminary project if I did not have any experience in grinding and polishing glass. So that is exactly what I did. I tried to make all of my mistakes and learn the process from the 4" mirror. Around this time I also started to get my lens making tools. The most important tools are a wedge tester, center thickness tester and spherometer. I ended up making 4 different spherometers. I will include pictures of them later. I was able to convert my wedge tester into a center thinkness tester. I will also show pictures of this later.

As for coming up with a lens design, I had a lot of help from Mike Jones and Dick Parker. I would like to thank them for all of their help thus far. I initially came up with a design myself and got a quote from GlassFab. The quote ended up being close to $1200. That was a little steep. So I ended up buying the F/15 airspaced doublet kit from Newport Glass for $550. This included the two lenses as well as a plate glass tool for each surface. I ordered the lenses in April and didn't receive them until June 23.

I decided to make a Baker type achromat. This design has the two inner radii (R2 and R3) the same. Dick Parker has done this with the Newport kit as well. There is a nice video on Stellafane where Mr. Parker goes over a lot on making an achromatic refractor.

The lenses come with pregenerated curves to a specific design chosen by Newport. I had Mike Jones design an equal internal radii achromat where the radii were close to the pregenerated curves done by Newport.

I worked most of the summer grinding with 220 carbo trying to get to the correct radii. I will give more details about my endeavour later.

I am currently at the polishing stage and hope to be done within the next month.

I will also talk about my Richard Berry refractor mount and my experience in getting the physics machine shop to machine my lens cell, tube adapter, and focuser back plate. I will include many pictures along the way.

Thanks for reading my intro.

James

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
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Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8305
Loc: Bremerton Washington
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2657361 - 09/22/08 08:59 PM

Sounds fun James...can't wait to see your pix.

I will be making a 10"f/16 myself so watching you will be informative.

Rob

--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.

www.vimeo.com/6014031


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Jeff Morgan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 1985
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2657593 - 09/22/08 11:06 PM Attachment (153 downloads)

James,

I look forward to hearing about your endeavor. I have built a slightly scaled down version of the Berry alt-az mount for a 6" f/5 refractor, it is extremely rigid.

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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mconnelley
sage


Reged: 03/14/06
Posts: 271
Loc: Fremont, CA
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #2657800 - 09/23/08 01:30 AM

Hello:

I'll look forward to reading of your efforts. It sounds like you're already fairly far along since you're polishing the glass and machining the lens cell. I'm finishing up a 5.7" f/14 refractor myself. The lens was already finished and in a cell, so "all" I had to do was make a push-pull collimation ring to mate the cell to the tube, get a tube, make a back plate, stick the focuser on, and mate it to my mount. I've used the scope a bit and have been quite impressed with the view. I'm at the point where next I need to paint the inside of the tube and add the baffles.

Cheers
Mike Connelley


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jcham21
sage
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Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: mconnelley]
      #2658343 - 09/23/08 11:04 AM

First I will show some of my spherometers. The first spherometer I made consisted of a 4" pulley, 3 ball bearings epoxied to the bottom, and a dial indicator clamped in the center. This wasn't the greatest spherometer due to my failure of epoxying the bearings on a common radius about the center. The dial indicator wasn't exactly centered either.

So I made a better one out of aluminum.





This is a 3" spherometer shown on a 3.1" opthalmic glass blank. The ball feet are synthetic ruby balls. The hardness of synthetic ruby greatly extends the life of the feet while testing during rough/fine grinding. I epoxied the balls into the head of a machine screw. I made sure the feet were perpendicular to the base plate before tightening the nuts. The mitutoyo micrometer head was purchased from Ebay for just $25. The micrometer spindle spins as the dial is turned. I used this spherometer to make a 3" test plate and test the sphericity of my 6" lenses.

My next spherometer was a 5.5" with an electronic dial indicator.





I had to use huge ball bearings and I believe this was a mistake. Smaller bearing might have been better. The indicator is held inside its base by a small set screw. Care must be taken not to overtighten. This digital indicator reads down to .0005" which was just not good enough for my needs. So I would call this a failed spherometer.

So I proceeded to make another spherometer.





This is another 5.5" spherometer. This micrometer head is a Starrett with a spindle that does not rotate. I purchased this one from Ebay as well for $5.00. I had to take it apart though in order to mount it onto the aluminum plate. I epoxied the bottom of the micrometer to lock it in place. These ball feet are steel ball bearings. They are also epoxied onto machine screws.

When I first begin making these spherometers, I first draw a circle on the aluminum with a nice compass. I then find the three points where the feet will be using the compass again. After the points are found, I punch a small hole using the head of a finishing nail. The hole helps to keep the drill bit in place when I begin to drill. I start with a small drill bit and then progress to the size I need. The center hole is also done this same way. I cut the spherometer out of aluminum with a jig saw. So no special tools are needed.

Here is the 3" spherometer design on the aluminum before cutting:



Larger Version: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/2397153317_03b3a945e9_b.jpg

You will need an optical flat or some other flat surface to zero your spherometer. I used a granite flat from Grizzly. It was only $12 and has an accuracy of plus or minus .0001".



Another good thing to have is an optical surface where the radius of curvature is known very accurately. This can be a mirror or another lens. You can use this surface to find the radius of your spherometer accurately. The more surfaces you have to check your spherometer against the better. The worst feeling is having doubt in your spherometer when you are grinding. I took apart a couple meade 4.25" mirrors at the university and used them to find the radius of my spherometer. I used my foucault tester in finding the radius of the mirrors. I also used an 8" uncoated mirror and a 10" coated mirror.

Another method is to use the concave R3 surface of the flint lens. You could maybe do 2-3 wets per abrasive grade and make a pitch lap to put a flash polish on the surface. Use a foucault tester to find the radius of curvature and use R3 as your calibration piece.

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2660532 - 09/24/08 12:46 PM

I received my lenses and tools from Newport Glass on June 23, 2008. Here is what was in the box:



Larger Version: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/2614428213_39d3349a92_b.jpg

The top lens is the crown and the bottom lens is the flint. The crown is BK7 and the flint is F4. Around the lenses are the 4 plate glass tools with concentric circles cut into them. Newport supplied a fairly thick flint and a relatively thin crown blank.



The above picture shows my wedge testing marks.

And here is the crown lens in my wedge tester.



The tester consists of a dial indicator on a magnetic base holder, two rods to butt the lens up against, and 3 ball bearings to hold the lens. A measurement is taken at each mark around the lens and the total wedge can be determined. My crown lens had little wedge but my flint lens had a ton.

Here is a shot of the ball bearings supporting the crown:



--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
*****

Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 8305
Loc: Bremerton Washington
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2660830 - 09/24/08 02:59 PM

Very interesting. I just put in my RFQ to Newport for 10"f/16 blanks. Since they are special order, I expect to pay far more then you. But a lot less then other venders.

My optical expert will aid me in the wedge process on mine...but what exatly is the wedge test for and what info does it reveal?

Rob

--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
A great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HomemadeRefractorTelescopes/ My homemade refractor group.

www.vimeo.com/6014031


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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #2660980 - 09/24/08 04:23 PM

Wedge is basically the two sides of the lens not being parallel to one another. If one side of the lens is tilted with respect to the other, the lens will act like a prism spreading white light into a spectrum of colors.

The wedge tester is used to identify which way the face of the lens is tilted. This way you can correspond a high and low point on the lens face. You then know which side you need to grind down in order to get the two lens faces parallel.

Another way to think about it is you are trying to get the same edge thickness all the way around the lens. If one side of the lens has a larger edge thickness, you must apply more pressure during grinding on that side of the lens to reduce the thickness.

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


Edited by jcham21 (09/24/08 04:25 PM)


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radiomaan
member


Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 44
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2661243 - 09/24/08 06:49 PM

Just curious. How much does a lens making kit cost these days?

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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: radiomaan]
      #2661385 - 09/24/08 08:17 PM

I bought the 2 lenses and 4 glass tools from Newport for $550. This did not include the grit or pitch.

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2675362 - 10/01/08 11:50 PM

Next I had to make a grinding stand. I knew I would be spending a lot of time going around this thing.


larger version: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3007/2906609580_6e30ea8038_b.jpg

Here is the grinding stand in use at my optics shop at the university.



My optics shop is actually a storage area for telescopes and other astronomy equipment but it is very nice.



My grinding stand was based on Dick Parker's design. The stand has been really stable thus far. I have a few cement tiles in the bottom as a ballast.

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2675368 - 10/01/08 11:52 PM

And sometimes when I couldn't make it to the university, I turned my apartment into an optics shop.



--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2675375 - 10/02/08 12:01 AM

In order to test and figure R3, I would need a foucault tester. I made mine from the Stellafane plans.


larger version: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/2532304120_886cddcaf5_b.jpg


larger version: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2243/2531488655_f138696d4d_b.jpg


larger version: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2531488613_f33588b5a0_b.jpg

And of course a lens holder in my case

larger version: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2189/2532304158_c3a6b04fdf_b.jpg

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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plyscope
sage


Reged: 11/23/06
Posts: 326
Loc: Perth, West Australia
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2675427 - 10/02/08 01:17 AM

This is a very interesting project James, thanks for sharing it. I have a copy of Norman Remers book, it is very informative. I have a 6" f15 D&G lens which I have mounted in a home made tube and use with an alt-az mount. It is a lot of fun and gives great views. I admire your patience and hard work to fabricate your own lens.

--------------------
Andy

6" f15 refractor
90mm f16.7 refractor


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Mason Dixon
member


Reged: 06/29/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Huntsville, Alabama
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: plyscope]
      #2697349 - 10/13/08 07:44 PM

Can't wait to see this progress, nice job!

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jcham21
sage
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Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: Mason Dixon]
      #2701606 - 10/16/08 12:45 AM

Thanks for all the comments! I have been really busy trying to finish up the scope and I am currently taking midterms. But on with my progress.

While waiting for my lens blanks to come in, I decided to make a test plate to test R1. I had bought some 3" opthmalic glass blanks from ebay last year and thought I would use that as the test plate. Grinding this small optic would also give me a bit more experience in the glass pushing process and polishings.

Here is a shot I took after I started polishing:

Larger version: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2890531772_4dab96a303_b.jpg

I probably could have had less channels in that pitch lap.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/2889696273_8b0c7ece1e_b.jpg

The pitch is acculap very firm (too hard) and I used a soldering iron to make the channels.

Here is the lap and test plate in an overnight coldpress. I used aluminum foil to prevent drying:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/2889696177_12f466737a_b.jpg

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2701635 - 10/16/08 01:15 AM

In order to get nice readings using the test plate against R1, I went ahead and made a Newton Interferometer. I got the idea from Gary Fuchs in this thread:

link

Here is my version:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3005/2946440998_1fe0e3caa1_b.jpg

It is a rather crude one I will admit but it works great. I made it from some scrap wood my dad had in his work shop. I believe it is 1/4" thick wood. I used small finishing nails and glue to hold it together.

Here is the top part that holds the lamps. I got the bulbs from ebay and the fixtures from Lowes. I have two lamps in the top

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/2946441198_01401f9043_b.jpg



I also used some green cellophane to help filter the light:



And just like Gary did, my beamsplitter is a two-way mirror:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2946442094_017a0febb7_b.jpg

Edited by jrcrilly (11/15/08 10:36 AM)


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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2701656 - 10/16/08 01:32 AM

And here is what the fringes look like when viewed through the two way mirror:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3002/2945662337_1474010452_b.jpg

This is the crown lens on top of the flint, R2 against R3. I can count the fringes all the way to the edge. I counted 59 in this case. From the number of fringes and the known radius of R3, I can determine the radius of R2.

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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jcham21
sage
*****

Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2701670 - 10/16/08 01:48 AM

As for my 3" test plate, here is how it turned out:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/2946552100_17d38022b8_b.jpg

I decided I could use the central 2" as my test plate and didn't care for the outer zone. I just used a mask to cover the outer zone when I was counting fringes.

--------------------
James
Canon XTi
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II Camera Lens
Celestar 8
Main Astrophotography Gallery

Comet Lulin Gallery

How To Make a 6" F/15 Refractor


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Mike I. JonesModerator
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/02/06
Posts: 1571
Loc: Fort Worth TX
Re: 6" F/15 Refractor Project new [Re: jcham21]
      #2701866 - 10/16/08 08:15 AM

Hi James,
Enjoying the pictures! Can't you just use shorter strokes on the test plate and get a good sphere across the full aperture? The more of that test plate you can use, the better.
Mike

--------------------
56 mirrors, lenses, 16" f/6 Newt, 6" f/10 refractor, TOA-130S, Tinsley 5" f/15 Mak, 6" f/4 RFT, Coronado PST. Still to build: 24" f/10 Modified Dall-Kirkham, 10" f/26 Mak, 8" f/12 apo, spectrohelioscope, Herrig, Schupmann, and others.


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