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arpruss
super member
   
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 197
Loc: Waco, TX
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Last night I discovered the answer to the riddle: How can one get seven magnifications with two non-zoom eyepieces and one Barlow? (Actually, one can get eight if one chooses the eyepieces right.)
I was using a cheap Owl Astronomy 2X Barlow, a 27mm Kellner, and a cheap 10mm Owl Plossl. It's easy to get four magnifications:
27mm -> 33X (on my F/4.5 8" scope)
10mm -> 90X
27mm + Barlow -> 67X
10mm + Barlow -> 180X
Two more are pretty easy. Unscrew the lens from the Barlow and screw it into the front of the eyepiece:
27mm + Barlow-lens-only -> 50X
10mm + Barlow-lens-only -> 135X (This is actually my favorite combination--I typically store the 10mm eyepiece with the Barlow lens on it)
What was trickier was to get the seventh magnification from my collection of optics. It turns out that the Barlow tube can be unscrewed into two pieces. One of these pieces is about 2 inches long, and has a filter thread on one end, and a somewhat larger thread on the other. The 10mm Plossl has an outside barrel that is screwed into the eyepiece with a filter thread. I remove the Plossl's barrel, and replace it by the tube from the Barlow. I screw the Barlow lens into the bottom of that tube (that's it's proper place, after all). Now, I put the Plossl, without its outside barrel, into the tube. It has about 1mm wiggle-room, as the tube's ID is wider than the OD of the Plossl's inner barrel. But I attach the Plossl with masking tape (or I could just leave it to sit there by gravity--the top part is wider than the tube, so it won't fall in).
Ploss + masking tape + 2 inches of tube + Barlow-lens -> 155X
(Jupiter looked almost as well at 155X as in my 135X combination. The pretty center of M25 looked better at 155X than at 135X.)
It's a bit of a nuisance to do all this shuffling of lenses, and one is likely to get them dirty.
I haven't tried the same trick with the 27mm, but I don't think it disassembles the way the 10mm does. If it did, I'd also be able to add 58X to my armory. But I don't need 58X if I have 50 and 67X. The 155X, though, was nice, because I wanted something a bit more than 135X, and 180X was too much.
I had more fun shuffling eyepiece pieces than observing last night. But at least I had fun.
It wasn't entirely a pointless exercise. I was thinking of buying a 6mm or 7mm EP, and wanted to see if 6mm would be too much magnification. (Answer: it's fine.)
-------------------- Coulter Odyssey 8"
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
25(?)mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, Owl 10mm Plossl, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
Edited by arpruss (09/22/08 07:35 PM)
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E_Look
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/06/08
Posts: 574
Loc: near New York
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Impressive study! I might try this sometime, though knowing me, I'm going to have to be very careful not to get dirt on the lenses, particularly fingerprints. I must admit, I'm not sanguine on the extra tube and masking tape part!
-------------------- Ed
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arpruss
super member
   
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 197
Loc: Waco, TX
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I haven't tried it in the scope, but it looks like EP + tape + tube + Barlow-lens would also work with the 27mm. So, that's eight magnifications with 2 EPs, 1 Barlow and a roll of paper tape.
-------------------- Coulter Odyssey 8"
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
25(?)mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, Owl 10mm Plossl, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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RussL
Music Maker
   
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1575
Loc: Cayce, SC
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You can get even more than that, I believe, if you try this trick. If your scope uses a diagonal, you can put the barlow in ahead of the diagonal and turn a 2x barlow into a 3x. It worked on a friend of mine's SCT. I tried it in my ST80, but ran out of focuser. Haven't tried it in my own SCT yet.
-------------------- --Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1142
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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You guys have not discovered the Baader Hyperion eyepieces yet? The 21mm Hyperion with their 2 fine tuning rings and a barlow gives about 12 different magnifications from 32mm down to 7mm! Throw in the 8mm Hyperion and you now have about 24 magnifications down to 2.1mm! And that is without putting the barlow element on the front of the diagonal or using tape. Check out www.agenaastro.com they have the full range of the Baader Planetarium Hyperion eyepieces and accessories at very good prices and all with free shipping. I did not even mention the Hyperion Zoom which goes from 24mm down to 8mm and then with the barlow takes you down to 4mm. Talk about having fun, I really enjoy these very reasonably priced eyepieces.
-------------------- George
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LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom
2" GSO ED barlow, Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese Scopes, Chinese Eyepieces, Chinese Wife, Love them all!
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arpruss
super member
   
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 197
Loc: Waco, TX
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Yes, but the Hyperion is a $119 eyepiece, and the fine-tuning rings are about $12 each. I'm doing this with a cheap binocular surplus Kellner, and a $19 Plossl. Of course one gets what one pays for in terms of quality. :-)
-------------------- Coulter Odyssey 8"
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
25(?)mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, Owl 10mm Plossl, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1142
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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Oh I am sorry! I guess I missed that riddle and the part where it says the CHEAPEST way to get seven mags with 2 eyepieces and a barlow! I read the riddle that says "how do you get the maximum versatility with good quality eyepieces and barlow. The kind that can last you a lifetime?"
-------------------- George
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LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom
2" GSO ED barlow, Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese Scopes, Chinese Eyepieces, Chinese Wife, Love them all!
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Bugsi
member
   
Reged: 09/20/07
Posts: 87
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
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I just want to second that the Hyperion zoom is one of my favorite eyepieces, I use it on every viewing session on any of my three scopes. 24mm to 8mm in just seconds, without fiddling with swapping eyepieces and parts and assembly / disassembly of lenses. Yes, it costs more, but I think the reward is in spending more time viewing and less time fiddling with eyepieces. It does also barlow well.
-------------------- Orion 150mm Mak, Orion 100mm Skyview Pro Refractor, Orion 80mm ShortTube Refractor.
Foothill Observatory, Los Altos, CA
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RussL
Music Maker
   
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1575
Loc: Cayce, SC
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Quote:
You guys have not discovered the Baader Hyperion eyepieces yet?
Yes, indeed. I just looked at the thread as being about what fun you can have with everyday cheap eyepieces.
-------------------- --Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1142
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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On a more serious note, I do find it refreshing to see a discussion of good, inexpensive eyepieces. I get so weary of reading about Ethos this and Nagler that. Eyepieces that cost more than all my equipment put together. I know, it is good stuff and I am happy some of you can afford that stuff but some of us can't. To me, the Hyperions are the expensive stuff but still just within my range. Because of their great versatility I can look on them as very economical and fun to use at the same time.
-------------------- George
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LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom
2" GSO ED barlow, Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese Scopes, Chinese Eyepieces, Chinese Wife, Love them all!
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john D
All you have to do is ask!!
   
Reged: 08/05/07
Posts: 4942
Loc: Midlothian, VA
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i did the just Barlow lenses on a eyepiece. it works pretty well!
nice study and thanks for sharing!
-------------------- Meade ETX-125
Meade LXD55 mount
Philips SPC900NC webcam
Seymour Solar filter
Backyard Observatory
-Midlothian VA
--Land Of The Free Because Of The Brave--
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RussL
Music Maker
   
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1575
Loc: Cayce, SC
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Quote:
To me, the Hyperions are the expensive stuff but still just within my range. Because of their great versatility I can look on them as very economical and fun to use at the same time.
I agree. Been looking at 'em myself.
-------------------- --Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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NerfMonkey
super member
Reged: 06/12/08
Posts: 187
Loc: NE Ohio
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Yeah, I can't believe I never thought of this. I just tried it tonight and was pleased to find that it improved the edge sharpness of all my eyepieces I tried it on. I used to have a gap between 120x and 240x but now I can achieve 180x using your Barlow lens method. That's the perfect magnification for tiny open clusters and planetary nebulae.
Thanks!
-------------------- Mike
71 Messiers
149 total DSOs
6 planets
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RussL
Music Maker
   
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1575
Loc: Cayce, SC
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On another note, has anyone else ever tried using an eyepiece as a hand-held microscope, looking through it backwards up close to something? Mine have helped me get spinters out of my finger.
-------------------- --Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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starquake
member
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 132
Loc: Nádasdladány
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Actually, I believe (and correct me sir if I'm wrong), the first (unscrewable) part of the Hyperion is a Barlow element in itself. The other lenses are optimized to work WITH this Barlow element on. Without that or with any combination of the fine tuning rings on the image is distorted heavily. At least to my taste, but I understand that the result may be acceptable for others. Perhaps it's only that I'm using a Dobsonian mount, therefore I demand a sharp image throughout the whole FoV. With a motorised equatorial mount, that would keep the object in the middle of my EP, probably I wouldn't mind a little optical trouble near the edges. I'm also a Hyperion owner, but I rarely use its tricks because of the above.
In my opinion the best is to use a separate EP for all the needed magnifications. But the method described in this topic is just fine for someone on a low budget, and worths giving it a try: in certain cases it may happen, that the image will be even better corrected than without the Barlow tweak.
-------------------- "At night astronomers agree." /Matthew Prior/
"Astronomers, like burglars and jazz musicians, operate best at night." /Miles Kington/
10x50, 114x900, 300x1500
My astronomical sketches: Graphite Galaxy
Don't take my words too seriously, I might be wrong. And sorry for my English.
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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1142
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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Ferenc, I Google Earth'd you and found you are South West of Buda-Pest in Hungary! I spent Christmas and New Year 1960 in Buda-Pest as a student. Your English is great by the way.
Here is another trick with the Hyperion. After you remove the barlow element, you can unscrew the main body of the eyepiece, being careful not to drop any lenses! And remove the next doublet above the barlow and you now have an 80deg wide UWA eyepiece! I call them the Erector Set of eyepieces. The picture is the property of William Paolini, hope you don't mind my using it BillP!
-------------------- George
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LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom
2" GSO ED barlow, Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese Scopes, Chinese Eyepieces, Chinese Wife, Love them all!
Edited by GeorgeDuke (09/24/08 06:09 PM)
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