Scott Rose
member
Reged: 04/20/08
Posts: 86
Loc: beachwood ohio
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Deciding on a 102mm OTA. I like these to tubes, but huge price difference. Want to put it on an iOptron Mount. Using it for moon, planets, and brighter DSO. Any thoughts?
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 855
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Well, Ive never looked through a TV refractor. Im sure they are very good. My 80mm ED SV is a great performer and reviews seem to unanimously praise the SV 102ED as well so I bet the SV will suit you just fine. And think of all that extra cash you'll have to blow on high-end eyepieces! 
3x the cost seems like a lot for the TV. Perhaps you can find a TV 102 used for less? Even then... the SVs are great scopes!
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Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
Edited by Mr. Mike (09/25/08 11:14 AM)
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10237
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Hi Scott.
IIRC, the SV scope starts at $995.
The version with FT focuser is $1295.
A new TV-102 (basic OTA) is $2250.
$145 for the tube mounting.
Not quite a 3x difference.
The TV-102 uses a lower dispersion ED element and has a longer f/ratio than the SV102ED. So, it will show superior color correction. You'll probably only notice that looking at the brightest objects at the highest powers.
Both the SV and TV scopes have excellent quality control.
Bottom line (if it wuz me)-- if you're after the best image possible in a 4" doublet, I'd go with a gently used Takahashi FS-102.
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27291
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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As per 4" doublets typically I'd look for a used FS102 (NSV version), TV102, SV102ABV, or Orion/Synta ED100 (listed in no particular order - they all have their advantages and disadvantages). The only reason I'd go for one of the common 102ED's would be if I were really looking for a small 4" scope for travel purposes.
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1141
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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The list could go on and on Scott. Each one of us will expound on the virtues of what most appeals to us! You really have to make your own decision because, if you let others make the choice for you, you will always wonder if you would have been better off with what you would have chose.
I have viewed through the TV102 and the NP102. They were nice. I have the SV102ED2 and it is nice also. Other than snob appeal I could not see myself spending the extra money for some perceived improvement in the view.
If I had more discretionary funds I might make a different choice but for now I am happy with what I have. You asked for any thoughts and these are mine!
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George
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LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom
2" GSO ED barlow, Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese Scopes, Chinese Eyepieces, Chinese Wife, Love them all!
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ranger
super member
Reged: 04/30/08
Posts: 153
Loc: Chicago
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Snob appeal? Ouch. I think TeleVue does an amazing job of surrounding the consumer with a completely integrated solution to astronomy and I think that is worth the extra investment. I also own Nikon cameras for the same reason.
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ranger
super member
Reged: 04/30/08
Posts: 153
Loc: Chicago
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I read comments like that on this forum routinely so I am now going up on the soap box for a moment.
Corporate branding is my line of work and I know first hand that building and maintaining a strong brand, which TeleVue has done, doesn't come cheaply or easily. Companies are constantly tested in the marketplace and have to earn and maintain their reputation though every single touch point the consumer has with that brand. Every product TeleVue makes carries a high level of expectation in the mind of the consumer and therefore must meet or exceed that. I have spoken with Al Nagler himself, as many of you have as well, regarding the most mundane maintenance questions. The fact that he will talk to his customers on a daily basis speaks volumes about the consistent level of quality in the products they make and that they stand by every single product that leaves the warehouse. To run a successful company like this with such highly successful products that are aimed at a consumer set that thrives on parsing minutia is mind boggling to me and comes at a cost.
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Preston Smith
Military Observer
Reged: 04/24/05
Posts: 2120
Loc: Eureka, Pa
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Well-stated Ranger! 
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Preston Smith, Eureka, Pa
For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then shall I know, even as also I am known. 1 Corinthians 13:12
Stellarvue SV115T
Stellarvue NHII, SV70, F50 "Sparrow Hawk 1"
1960s Unitron 160 102mm f15
1950s Unitron 114 60mm f15
1980 Edmund "Voyager" 60mm f8
1960s Tasco 15TE 76mm f15
1960s Tasco 7TE-5 60mm f16
1950s Asahi-Pentax 50mm f12
More refractors!
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 7619
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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TV scopes rather remind me of buying a Ferrari-the auto is not an assembly line product. I think purchasing the scope might have a number of similarities involving the advanced engineering of the product, painstaking measures to assure the near perfect assembly and collimation of the telescope before it ever leaves the factory. From what little I know about how these scopes or how many of them at a time are produced having never been invited the the factory and from what little I've heard,the QC on these telescopes may be second to none. Quality never comes cheap but much like the cliche in sports that speed never has a bad day,quality usually wins out under the stars as well.
In the particular comparison to the 2 refractors in the thread title,the higher grade of glass and the longer focal ratio would better suit my purposes for the highest quality planetary views I could obtain out of a "reasonably" priced refractor. Portability would not be factored into my choice between the 2. One users poison is another users treasure. Whatever the actual price differential is in comparison to the 2 scopes,paying the extra for the TV would be worth it to me.
Those are my thoughts,Scott,FWIW. 
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Kenny
"When dealing with a mystery,choose the most unlikely of the likely possibilities"-Sherlock Holmes
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David E
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 1728
Loc: North Carolina
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TV102: better glass and longer focal length- my choice for Moon and planets.
SV102: wider field for extended DSO's, shorter tube means a little more portability as well as stability on your mount, easier on the pocketbook, will still give you darned good lunar/planetary views.
In all candor, I'd call Stellarvue and ask to talk to Vic as he is also a Televue dealer, he has at least used and looked through a TV102 and may have even sold a few.
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David E
So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.
-Robert Frost
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phanfave
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/21/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Pioneer Valley
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I think there is a very noticeable difference between the SV102ED and TV102. It might not mean much to some viewers, but the SV102ED has MUCH more color than the longer and better corrected TV102. But then again there is a reason why the TV102 retails for $2700 and the SV102ED for $1300 (for comparable accessories). Which one will you like better? Hmmm tough decision. Me I personally liked the TV102 better than my SV102ED (I used to own a NP101 as well) but not for twice the money. Now instead I did order the 102ABV because I think it's better than the TV102 for the same price. All of these are doublets, so if you're thinking photography, a doublet is good, but no where near as good as a well corrected triplet. But now you're talking $3000+ for a good 102 triplet. As always with topics of this nature YMMV.
Sean
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SV70ED, SV102ABV, C8
Vixen Sphinx & Super Polaris, SV M1
Denkmeier II
Meade DSI II Pro
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IDA Member
Astro League At-Large Member
Planetary Society Member
Amherst Area Amateur Astronomer Association
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Teal'c
Indeed
Reged: 08/02/05
Posts: 3456
Loc: TN
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"Now instead I did order the 102ABV because I think it's better than the TV102 for the same price."
Owned it.... It's an incredible doublet. As Tom Trusock suggested, look into a Tak doublet as well.
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Etch-O-Sketch and an eraser. Although....the eraser dosn't work 
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 428
Loc: East Tennessee
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I faced a choice similar to the OP's question a few years ago and wound up buying a used C102f for $1450. Although some newer scopes in this size show little or no false color out of focus my Celestron shows no color IN focus. And this is where I do actual observing so no desire to move up to anything else.
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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LivingNDixie
Lord of Ferrets
Reged: 04/23/03
Posts: 15782
Loc: Hoover, AL
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C102F, thats a Classic 
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Preston
Celestron 11" Nexstar GPS XLT
Lunt LS60T/Ha 60mm f/8.33 (on order)
It’s not finishing something when your tank is empty that makes you a stronger person. It’s brushing yourself off and refacing the foe that defeated you with the same determination and willingness to fight that you had when you began your journey.
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 855
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Quote:
TV scopes rather remind me of buying a Ferrari-the auto is not an assembly line product. I think purchasing the scope might have a number of similarities involving the advanced engineering of the product, painstaking measures to assure the near perfect assembly and collimation of the telescope before it ever leaves the factory. From what little I know about how these scopes or how many of them at a time are produced having never been invited the the factory and from what little I've heard,the QC on these telescopes may be second to none. Quality never comes cheap but much like the cliche in sports that speed never has a bad day,quality usually wins out under the stars as well.
Those are my thoughts,Scott,FWIW.
Fair enough, but Stellarvue has just as good QC as Televue. Vic checks all scopes prior to the consumer getting them. That explains the pretty much universally good reviews they get. Sure, TV scopes also get these sparkling reviews, but the SV is just as much "Ferrari-built" as any other product. Try finding an angry Stellarvue customer... may as well try to hunt down the Lost Ark or the Shroud of Turin. 
Of course, NEITHER scope is made in Maranello Italy so thats an issue....
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Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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DBA52
sage
Reged: 08/24/05
Posts: 452
Loc: Roseville, MN., USA
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I asked Vic to make this comparison some time ago. While not commenting on price, he was very frank: the 102ED is not intended to compete with the TV102. More information is not difficult to find: there are some reviews on the Stellarvue website which compare the 102ED with another Stellarvue telescope comparable to the TV102. Also look at the reviews on Astromart. Mark Lee Webb, a contributer on this forum who did one of the Astromart interviews, owned a TV102 and the SV102ED. He sold the Televue because he didn't think the difference was worth the money.
As for myself, the SV102ED is just fine--the amount of color is small and never intrusive. On the moon and planets, I use my binoviewer which for some reason eliminates almost all false color anyway. There are times when I've seen more false color through my Dobs. But for some viewers, even this would be too much.
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Dave
T-scope 14" Dobsonian f/4.7
Hardin 8" Dobsonian f/6
Stellarvue 102ED Meade LXD75 mount
Orion ST80 f/5
Meade ETX90
WO binoviewers
Baader MPCC
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10237
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
Fair enough, but Stellarvue has just as good QC as Televue. Vic checks all scopes prior to the consumer getting them. That explains the pretty much universally good reviews they get. Sure, TV scopes also get these sparkling reviews, but the SV is just as much "Ferrari-built" as any other product. Try finding an angry Stellarvue customer... may as well try to hunt down the Lost Ark or the Shroud of Turin.
Of course, NEITHER scope is made in Maranello Italy so thats an issue....
I think it's safe to say that both companies have very good QC.
Unless we know what each company does when it comes to checking their equipment before it's shipped, it's speculation to suggest that Brand X's is just as good as Brand Y's.
One company has a much larger segment of the premium refractor market than the other. If both vendors can say that they have almost no consumer complaints, then the bigger manufacturer's QC could be more rigorous than the smaller one's. 
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27291
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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FWIW, I think one major difference between the companies is that Tele Vue builds their telescopes in Chester, NY from parts they design and have manufactured exclusively for them.
Another is Al. There's very very few people with his expertise and experience in this field.
T
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 855
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Quote:
FWIW, I think one major difference between the companies is that Tele Vue builds their telescopes in Chester, NY from parts they design and have manufactured exclusively for them.
Another is Al. There's very very few people with his expertise and experience in this field.
T
Agreed, although I believe final assembly is done by Stellarvue in California. Only some of the inital parts are sourced in from wherever.
Either way, having a scope from Televue or Stellarvue is going to be just fine for the end user!
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Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1141
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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Dave, the binoviewer is introducing prisms which, like the prism diagonal may be causing the OTA to act more like a triplet because of the added glass element. What do you think Clive?
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George
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LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom
2" GSO ED barlow, Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese Scopes, Chinese Eyepieces, Chinese Wife, Love them all!
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