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Pess
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What's a Higgs Boson?
      #2665888 - 09/27/08 08:18 AM

Last night, while watching the presidential debates, a friend asked me what, in simple terms, a Higgs Boson was.

Despite all the popular press on it he admitted to only a vague idea about this 'Higgs thing'.

After thinking about it a bit I came up with the following analogy. So I thought I would share it to encourage commentary.

Like anything else at this level of resolution, the Higgs can be seen as a field or as a kind of particle depending on how one looks at it. Hence the terms Higgs field & Higgs boson.

The Higg's field and Higgs boson give all matter in the universe the characteristic of 'mass'. So it's kind of important.

To conceptualize it, think of yourself standing out in a large field surrounded by geese. The geese are standing all around you.

Now you start walking in any direction. The geese in front of you are taken by surprise and you meet resistance as you accelerate up to walking speed and your feet hit the geese trying to flee out of the way. this 'resistance' is called inertia.

After getting up to walking speed the geese anticipate your travel and flee before you as you continue walking in a straight line. This is the old 'once put in motion an object stays in motion," kinda thing.

Now as you start to run the geese are again taken by surprise and you encounter resistance as your feet whack into the fleeing geese once again. This occurs until you stabilize your speed and the geese can once more anticipate your path and get out of the way.

This is the concept of the Higgs Field.

Now you stop. As you come to rest the geese around you suspect you may have birdseed in your pocket and those nearest you gather close in a knot. They kinda 'hold' you in place and offer resistance to easy movement (ie: give you rest mass).

This 'knot' of geese is the concept of the Higgs boson.

Let me stress that there is no evidence that the Higgs theory is correct other than two little things: It describes how mass arises perfectly and, there is no other theory that remotely comes close to explaining how objects in our universe come to have mass.

The LHC will, hopefully, allow a picture to be taken of a Higgs Boson as a few form under the immense collision energies.

The Higgs may or may not exist. Either way it will be a monumental piece of information put towards our understanding of the universe.

I tend to think it won't be found. I don't like the entire Higgs concept as too ad hoc. But I offer no alternative.

As always, I welcome commentary on these thoughts.

Pesse (Geesh, I hope with all these collisions at the LHC that France & Switzerland are no-fault states.) Mist


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letimotif
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: Pess]
      #2665955 - 09/27/08 09:26 AM

It's an interesting analogy you have there. I would only expand the analogy by adding that different "people" would have differing impacts on the the geese around them, with each "person" carrying along greater or lesser numbers of geese.

Honk if you love bosons.

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JerryWise
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: letimotif]
      #2665970 - 09/27/08 09:40 AM

I would step lightly in that situation. We have an invasion of Geese here on the lake and the Boson problem is real.

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Mike K
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: JerryWise]
      #2666204 - 09/27/08 12:10 PM

I had never considered the possibility that the Higgs field might feed on birdseed.

--------------------
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llanitedaveModerator
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: Mike K]
      #2666428 - 09/27/08 02:45 PM

So, what happens when the Higgs Bosons molt?


Seriously, whether the analogy is accurate or not, it sure is a nice one!

--------------------

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George Jones
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: llanitedave]
      #2666537 - 09/27/08 04:12 PM

Normal atoms are made of electrons, protons, and neutrons, and protons and neutron are themselves made of quarks. Interaction with the Higgs field does gives mass to electrons and quarks. A great deal of the mass of a proton or neutron, however, comes from the kinetic/binding energies of the constituent quarks. Consequently, the Higgs is not directly responsible for the majority of mass of normal stuff in the universe.

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letimotif
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: George Jones]
      #2666637 - 09/27/08 05:40 PM

Still, like Pesse, I'd sure like to take a gander at one.



--------------------
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Celestron C6R-GT
Orion 120ST
B&L Banner Astro 80mm
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Sundry Oddments

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?

Ad astra per aspera


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jfosc
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: letimotif]
      #2666972 - 09/27/08 10:03 PM

Columbia Professor and Physicist Dr. Brian Greene makes an analogy of the Higgs Field to molasses.

Imagine moving a tennis ball through the air. Pretty easy to do, eh? Now move that tennis ball through a big vat of molasses. It feels like the tennis ball has gained mass.

--------------------
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"The Universe is expanding. That should help ease the traffic" - Stephen Wright

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Pess
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: jfosc]
      #2667185 - 09/28/08 12:32 AM

Quote:

Columbia Professor and Physicist Dr. Brian Greene makes an analogy of the Higgs Field to molasses.

Imagine moving a tennis ball through the air. Pretty easy to do, eh? Now move that tennis ball through a big vat of molasses. It feels like the tennis ball has gained mass.





The problem with that analogy is that it doesn't accurately reflect what a Higgs field does.

The molasses analogy would slow a tennis ball that was pushed through it, eventually stopping it.

What the Higgs field does is resist motion but once something is put into motion the Higgs field does not alter this motion.

A tennis ball in space requires a certain amount of 'force' to accelerate its 'mass' to a specific speed. But once that speed is acquired that tennis ball will stay in motion forever if no other force comes into play.

Pesse (Is the Higgs field a reflection of a quantized structure of space/time?) Mist


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LesB
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: Pess]
      #2667334 - 09/28/08 04:40 AM

Are you saying that the Higgs Boson was goosed?

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JerryWise
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: LesB]
      #2667457 - 09/28/08 07:52 AM

What, in an overview and simplification, does the effect/particle do? How does it merit being called the "God particle"?

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George Jones
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: JerryWise]
      #2667624 - 09/28/08 10:07 AM

Quote:

What, in an overview and simplification, does the effect/particle do? How does it merit being called the "God particle"?




Particle physicist Leon Lederman wrote a book titled The God particle. According to Wikipedia (which can't always be trusted), "this is a code name for the familiar expression 'the *BLEEP* particle' which working physicists frequently used in desperation." Physicists hate this name, because it leads to misunderstandings, and they never use it. For example, a BBC web article states "The Higgs' importance to the Standard Model has led some to dub it the 'God particle'."

In the hot, dense early universe, the weak nuclear force (which is involve in fission processes in nuclear reactors) and the electromagnetic force were unified, and this unified force is called the electroweak force. As the universe expanded and cooled, this symmetry between the forces was broken by the Higgs mechanism. The LHC hopes to see the Higgs particles by recreating through collisions of protons the conditions of the early universe at the time that Higgs was involved in the symmetry breaking.

Higgs also gives mass to all the electrons and quarks; hence, Pess's interesting original post, with its analogies for mass, a quantitative measure of inertia, and for Newton's first law.

Quote:

Still, like Pesse, I'd sure like to take a gander at one.




Yes, goosey, goosey, gander, where dost thou wander? Sorry, I have a two-year-old.

I would be shocked if the LHC doesn't find Higgs, but I hope that it doesn't. This would be very exciting, as it might mean that we need something completely new! Between 1905 and 1975, physicists made myriad fundamental experiment and theoretical discoveries, but there has been a bit of a lull over the last thirty years. Stephen Hawking made a bet the LHC won't find Higgs, and Peter Higgs has his shorts in a knot

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/09/11/scicern411.xml

over the publicity caused by this bet.

Quote:

Is the Higgs field a reflection of a quantized structure of space/time?




No.

There were some observations reported a year ago that could be taken as evidence for the quantization of spacetime

http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=8364,

but more mundane astrophysics might eventually explain the result. Time may massacre this result, just as it did the St. Valentines Day magnetic monopole.

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JerryWise
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: George Jones]
      #2667853 - 09/28/08 12:15 PM

Thanks George. I really like that last article. Buts the mind to work for sure.

--------------------
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LesB
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: George Jones]
      #2667902 - 09/28/08 12:39 PM

Quote:

more mundane astrophysics might eventually explain the result.




Could be as simple as the index of refraction. That might explain 4 minutes difference over 500^6 years. I wonder if they are planning observations from another part of earth's orbit for comparison. I hope so. That explanation would be a lot easier to digest that the quantized structure of space/time.



I posted an article about Lederman's The God Particle a while back. The mods didn't like the title and immediately pulled it.

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JerryWise
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: LesB]
      #2667945 - 09/28/08 12:59 PM

Quote:


I posted an article about Lederman's The God Particle a while back. The mods didn't like the title and immediately pulled it.




Now that is funny.


--------------------
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jupiterzkool
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: JerryWise]
      #2668225 - 09/28/08 03:31 PM

I doubt if a book called "The Goose Particle" would sell as well with the public as "The God Particle".

-S

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Pess
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: jupiterzkool]
      #2668299 - 09/28/08 04:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Is the Higgs field a reflection of a quantized structure of space/time?






No.






While I might tend to agree, I wouldn't share your conviction about it.

Let's keep in mind that the Higgs field is a pure mathematical construct.

He worked backwards from the observed universe and developed a mathematical description of a scalar field that explained everything.

The concept of a Higgs field may end up cannon or just elegant nonsense that just happens to generate descriptions of the real world.

That is not to take away anything from Peter Higgs. The man & his buddies are true genius.

Pesse (As an aside, it is a little know fact that the term "god particle" was originally shorthand by scientists for 'that god-dxmmed particle" they would utter when looking for s specific something to confirm their pet theory. Popular press kinda distorted the meaning when Lederman's book came out.) Mist


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StarWars
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: jupiterzkool]
      #2668307 - 09/28/08 04:19 PM

What's a Higgs Boson?


Didn't he play on Magnum PI...

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gazerjim
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: StarWars]
      #2668378 - 09/28/08 05:06 PM

Is the Higgs Boson concept compatible with Mach's Principle as an explanation for inertia?


Confusedly,

Jim

--------------------
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Pess
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Re: What's a Higgs Boson? new [Re: gazerjim]
      #2668618 - 09/28/08 07:37 PM

Quote:

Is the Higgs Boson concept compatible with Mach's Principle as an explanation for inertia?


Confusedly,

Jim





Depends on what you accept as the Mach Principle. It tends to vary depending on who you ask.

But the mach principle can best be referred to as the Grandpappy of Einsteins general relativity theory.

In a nutshell, one way to phrase it would be to ask the question, "If there is only one object in the universe and no one is around to see it, does it still have mass?'

Pesse (Sorry, maybe not so simple. Gotta stop the late nightcaps...) Mist


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