Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1648
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My Tale of Woe or How I Learned a Life Lesson (LONG)
Where It All Began...
Picked up a used 12.5mm X-cel for a song the other month. Wanted it for some toss-in-the-pocket solar observing. Discovered it had some dust specks... Aargh! I'm sure the seller didn't notice--one wouldn't at night, but against the Sun's face, well it made it looks as if the Sun was rapidly coming out of solar minimum! Several tiny sun spots.
Mr. Clean
I thought, well, this will be easy (right!), just brush off the accessible top and bottom lenses (with camel's hair fine arts brush). No dice. Tried a lens cloth moistened with lens solution. Specks still there. Then figured, well if I remove the bottom barrel maybe I'll expose a lens I could brush off. You see where this is going, right?
But I was smart... I followed the standard advice and flipped the eyepiece upside down. MISTAKE! The Xcel/Epic lines should be worked on straight up. Fortunately, no damage occurred as the avalanche of lenses spewed forth. But what order were they in?
I cleaned them off with a solution of alcohol, water, and dish-washing liquid, dried them with a clean, lint-free handkerchief. (Or so I thought!) Re-assembled... in most cases, the lenses and spacers only went in one way. Whew!
More Specks...
Held the eyepiece up to my eye... Oh, no! Far more specks than there were before. Redid the entire process, this time drying with a camera lens cloth. Aargh! A different set of specks. Tried another... Ugh! At one point holding up the top lens, I magnified the specks and saw one with feelers that was moving--a dust mite?!! Yuuch!! (Your house and environment are probably filled with these things.) Re-assembled and let it all sit for several days as I just couldn't face it.
New Plan Leads to First Disaster
Yesterday, had a bit of time, and so took up a new plan. Work in a "steamy" bathtub so there wouldn't be dust in the air to contaminate the lenses. Sloshed the lenses around in a nice plastic cup filled with the cleaning mixture. Cleaned each part, and gently repositioned it within the eyepiece barrel. Had everything in place--except for the final, top lens. Picked up the lens out of the solution, it slipped out of my hand, hit the bottom of the cast iron tub-- and chipped! Aarghh! Double-aargh!!
Mission Impossible
On re-assembly, everything was pristine-- no dust specks, mites, or anything. Save for water streamers everywhere-- hadn't dried it enough. Brought out another lint-free handkerchief. Took apart and dried each part. Re-assembled. Perfect, save for a handful of small bubbles. Should've stopped. Went for perfection. On second drying, dust specks again! Tried special mini-cloths received with an eyepiece. Oh, no! Left little cloth strands everywhere. Tried a cotton ball for drying-- even more strands. (How does anyone ever get these things dried without leaving flecks, specks, and strands?!)
I'm Really Stuck!
After another couple of tries, with the occasional strand or speck, the bottom lens gets stuck at an angle and won't come out. Tried tapping side. Tried rapping barrel against ground. Gave it a vigorous shake. No luck! Then tried a pen knife to get between the edge of the lens and inside of the barrel. Doesn't budge. Try again. Edge of lens chips. Try screwdriver, no luck. Try screwdriver with a small tapping hammer. Chips worse.
The Solution
Open up trash can. Discard eyepiece. Vow to never again open up an eyepiece!
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Mr. Mike
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/08/05
Posts: 858
Loc: Churchville, NY
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Sorry for your experience, Paul. Im anal about my glass and I panic if I see dust specs/whatever and the tendency is that I want to break out the cleaning stuff. This is a BAD choice.
We've all been there... trust us! But, yeah, Im gonna trust you and never disassemble any of my eyepieces!
-------------------- Stellarvue NG 80mm ED
Meade 7x50 Binos
Pentax XW 5mm
Meade 5K UWA 8.8mm
Vixen LVW 13mm
Vixen LVW 22mm
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4312
Loc: Inner Solar System
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I've never been quite there THAT bad, and I'm sure going to learn from your experience! Just be glad it wasn't a Nagler or something - you'd probably have to shoot yourself!
-------------------- - Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C
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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1175
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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I ignore internal dust for just that reason. I once disassembled a cheap 10mm eyepiece that came with a scope to see if I could put a reticle in it. One tiny lens element fell to the floor and shattered! It had so little weight I could not believe it but there it was. Luckily the eyepiece was not worth anything anyway. I did pick up a Celestron Polaris right angle 8x50 finder at the Swap Shop for $5! They sell for about $130. this one has a nasty chip in edge of the objective lens. Looks like someone dropped it. Looks terrible but at night when viewing through it, no sign of it at all! Seems perfect and that is all that matters.
-------------------- George
--------------
LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom + FTRs
2" GSO ED barlow, Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese Scopes, Chinese Eyepieces, Chinese Wife, Love them all!
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
   
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28681
Loc: montana
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Paul, I have but this to say:
Arrrrrrgh!
Sorry for the experience, but it will save many fellow CN'rs from the same bad experience, (hopefully )
-------------------- Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Mike Hosea
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 3234
Loc: "Metrowest" Boston
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We talked about the safe barrel removal advice before. I agree with you that the standard statement should be something like, "In most cases you want to turn the eyepiece upside down." What I'd prefer to say (and do say sometimes) is that you want to orient the eyepiece so that gravity holds the lenses in.
I agree with the sentiment that people should generally try to ignore these things. I can't remember the last time I went into a lens stack to clean it and didn't have to take it back apart at least once or twice to repeat the job. It's hard, and sometimes new debris specs come from inside the eyepiece as you reassemble it. And then there's the odd strand of Q-tip cotton fiber that snags on some threads or something. Even when things go pretty well, it's still quite unpleasant.
-------------------- Mike
- 7" f/6.7 home-built planetary Newt
- 35mm Panoptic
- 13mm Ethos
- 5mm Tak LE
- 2x TV Barlow
- Canon 10x30IS Binoculars
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Ed Kessler
professor emeritus
  
Reged: 05/17/06
Posts: 749
Loc: Millersburg, PA
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It took me about five tries before I successfully cleaned a very dirty 6mm Zeiss aus Jena eyeiece. The black anti-reflection paint(?) was flaking off onto the internal surface of the lenses. Everytime I put it back together more flakes appeared.
Frustrating . . . .
-------------------- Ed Kessler
sic itur ad astra (Just to look profound!)
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
   
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 3337
Loc: Cattaraugus Co., NY
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Just a hunch but I'll bet that you are glad that the eyepiece was not an expensive one.
-------------------- Ted
Tectron 25" dobsonian 10x70 binoculars
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4312
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Quote:
It took me about five tries before I successfully cleaned a very dirty 6mm Zeiss aus Jena eyeiece. The black anti-reflection paint(?) was flaking off onto the internal surface of the lenses. Everytime I put it back together more flakes appeared.
Frustrating . . . .
That happened to me with my 14mm UWA. Luckily I only used an air bulb, and got the flakes out after about 3 or 4 tries. No lenses fell out (whew!)
-------------------- - Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C
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Mike Hosea
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 3234
Loc: "Metrowest" Boston
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Quote:
(How does anyone ever get these things dried without leaving flecks, specks, and strands?!)
I'm not sure you really need the information now, and as I said, I am rarely successful on the first try, but the gist of it is that I use Q-tips, acetone, and a plastic air pump and Tele Vue's cleaning process (or at least the one they recommend to us). I clean each lens surface as I reassemble it (can't do them all at once) and use puffs of air judiciously (have to be very careful about the intensity or the lenses will jump) to remove any dust that happens to settle during the assembly process while I am working on the next lens. I do not worry about cleaning the outer surfaces of the stack until the stack is secure. I do not use any sort of cloth except to create a safe work surface. Once a lens surface has been cleaned with acetone, I may fog and wipe with a fresh Q-tip. If debris remains, I have no escalation plan, no nuclear options. I simply try again, maybe a few times, and I am usually satisfied at some point, but I have given up before.
-------------------- Mike
- 7" f/6.7 home-built planetary Newt
- 35mm Panoptic
- 13mm Ethos
- 5mm Tak LE
- 2x TV Barlow
- Canon 10x30IS Binoculars
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ckwastro
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/23/05
Posts: 735
Loc: AZ
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Paul, sorry to hear of your experience, but I can't thank you enough for sharing it with us. 
This thread came just in time for me as I was seriously considering taking apart two EP's this weekend to clean them. After this, I will leave well enough alone and deal with the specs.
-------------------- Kerry
- 92mm AP Stowaway (f/7 version, uh...actually f/6.57
)
- Takahashi Mewlon 210
- Giro 3 Twin View
- 10x42 Audubon Equinox
- Bogen 3221 tripod / 3047 3-Way Head
- Denk Std BV
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2682
super member
Reged: 02/18/08
Posts: 194
Loc: The Heartland
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Quote:
Vow to never again open up an eyepiece!
Which is what I will no doubt be saying after I do most of the above with a Meade Series 4000 40mm Plossl.
-------------------- Benders 1000/11 1180/9.29
Folder, Newt 1219/6
"(Sigh!) I sold it for a song. But, that song was 'White Christmas.' I made millions!" - Montgomery Burns
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skypilgrim
sage
Reged: 12/25/06
Posts: 416
Loc: Under a cloud
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"After this, I will leave well enough alone and deal with the specs" - Kerry
Amen. A little while ago someone posted a "Wanted" ad for some Pentax orthos over at that astro classified site. In the ad he specifically called out wanting pristine orthos without any specs on any lens surface, inside or out.
I've never heard anyone ask that before but it made me curious. So I pulled out my wifes light table (an opaque tabletop that is back-lit) to look at my oculars. Well, every single one of them had some sort of flaw, from tiny bubbles to minute specs. Even eyepieces I prize for their sharpness and almost non-existent ghosting had some garbage in the optical path. 
At first it depressed me but then I came to my senses. Their performance has always been first rate and really, knowing this shouldn't change anything.
All it took was taking them out the next clear night and I fell in love all over again. 
Sometimes it's better not to know!
-------------------- Equipment:
Scope #1: 5" f/8 refractor.
Scope #2: 3" f/6 refractor.
Daughters scope: XT6 dobsonian.
Area of interest: Ethnoastronomy
My Blog: http://fathersky.wordpress.com/
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E_Look
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/06/08
Posts: 587
Loc: near New York
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I think this dust is like having one of our normal size Newtonians' secondary... in the light path of some 10 meter scope! But if the dust accumulates...
-------------------- Ed
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CHASLX200
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/29/07
Posts: 742
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I learned the hard way when i was 13. Took apart a 9mm 965. eyep in the back yard, out plopped the lens in the grass. I never could find that tiny lens.
Chas
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Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1648
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Say, I appreciate the moral support you all provided! A nice community reaction.
Thanks also for the extra tips on how to dry lenses without leaving strands. I do, from time to time, clean the outer lenses of my eyepieces (no dis-assembly required! ).
I never would have embarked on this--or probably even seen the specks-- save that I was observing through a PST!
Celestron used to offer a cleaning service--alas, no longer. Televue, of course, has a solid reputation for its service-- just read about someone over at AM who was quoted $50 for cleaning and inspection of a Panoptic. That's a plus; a real consideration in making a buying decision among high-end eyepieces from different companies.
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UKrosie
newbie
   
Reged: 08/28/08
Posts: 3
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What I have found useful for getting dust off of camaera lens for photography is to use a combination of air pump after getting rid of any static by using a zerostat gun device.
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kaaikop
sage
   
Reged: 07/13/08
Posts: 468
Loc: Ste-Therese, Canada
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A-ah! dont tell me you are also an "audiophile"? got good old "vinyl" records, right?
-------------------- Benoit, RASC Montreal
-C 9.25XLT on EQ6 Pro / ED80SF on Portamount
-Plossls, Radians, Naglers, LVW's & Orthos.
-a pair of 7x50's
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