killerwolf
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 286
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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ok so i was out tonight with my new EON 72 mm scope and shot off a few photos before the camera batt. died on me.
[IMG]http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8867/drumbellcropet2.th.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img87.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif[/IMG]
and
[IMG]http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9518/andromadacroplaylj0.th.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img508.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif[/IMG]
now the drum bell is only 2 images i layered up in ps each iso 800 one 25 sec and one 30 sec
androm was iso 800 5 X 30 sec. i think 1 at 60 sec.
now i have a few questions:
1. do i need like 50 shots of andromada to bring out detail in the arms ex.
2. Do i need longer exp times then avg of 30sec
3. for proccessing do you adjust curves and noise reduction on each image before layering??
i have been layering them then trying to clean up the images.
for androm i used DSS.
Please help iam very new at this.
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Skywatcher syncscan HEQ5 200mm 1000mm/f
Skywatcher 80mm/400mm short tube
Orion EON 72mm
DSI pro, and Olympus 330
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Panza
sage
Reged: 09/26/07
Posts: 222
Loc: Lillehammer, Norway
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You don't need 50 shots but you need longer exposures. You need to fix your tracking first. The stars are trailing.
There is something seriously wrong with the DUMBBELL. Maybe the photoshop stacking...
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10" LX200R
Losmandy G-11
Astro-Physics 2" MaxBright Diagonal
Some TV Eyepieces
Canon 1D Mk2 and 5D with lots of lenses.
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nofxrx
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 1460
Loc: palm bay,florida
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Killer shots Killerwolf!!! 
You are doing a great job...these are WAAAAAY better than my firsts..big time!!
I dont want to scare you but I have seen beautiful works of art images of M31 that are 10-12+HOURS of exposure...sometimes with 10-20-30minute sub exposures.
You do not NEED to image that long to get a decent image..you just need to add more of what you have.As many as you can.If your setup will allow you to go longer then go longer on this object,it can take it...
The images look pretty well processed.I tried to bring out some detail in M31 and had little success w/o bringing out too much noise(which is always the battle right?
I like to think of it as...well...yea know  ) 
Good luck Killer,hang in there buddy(I just became one of those cheesy motivational posters didnt I......ahh well)
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Brent Oliver
3 Wonderful dogs: Sadie, Kara and Ozzie
Celestron C10-N///C9.25///Orion 80ED///WO ZS66SD White
Celestron CI-700 & ASGT Eq. Mounts
Nikon D40Xa///SBIG ST-402ME/Class 1/CFW///DSI-PRO...
My Gallery
Ohh yeah,and a VERY undersanding wife!! 
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NyxAither
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 835
Loc: Arlington VA
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Good job! Keep it up!
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Thomas
✸Orion XT8i✸Orion 80-T✸CG5 GT Mount ✸Meade DSI II Color✸Meade DSI (THANKS TODD N!!!)✸Orion 4.5" Reflector OTA✸Trusty Mac Powerbook G4✸1960's Gilbert 3" telescope✸10x50 binoculars✸SPC900NC✸
..::*~*Clear Skies*~*::..
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orenabah
member
Reged: 05/21/08
Posts: 88
Loc: Connecticut
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Thing with M31 is that you have to combine different exposure times to get the best out of it. Short exposures for the core, longer ones for the arms. Otherwise you get arms but a severely washed out core.
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Celestron NexStar 130 SLT
Celestron NexImage
Zhumell 20x80 binos
Meade DSI pro
Panasonic DMC-TZ3
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john D
All you have to do is ask!!
Reged: 08/05/07
Posts: 4973
Loc: Midlothian, VA
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nicely done!  
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Meade ETX-125
Meade LXD55 mount
Philips SPC900NC webcam
Seymour Solar filter
Backyard Observatory
 -Midlothian VA
--Land Of The Free Because Of The Brave--
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EdmontonAB
super member
Reged: 04/30/08
Posts: 174
Loc: Edmonton Alberta Canada
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Great start. I really like your M31. Stars are sharp. You have to remember it's only 2.5 min worth of exposure. I just started this hobby myself and I learned a lot by doing this on no budget.
1) Use DSS to stack. You are already doing this, but read ALL the help files. Lots of good info in there.
2) Download PixInsight. Again its free. You can do some good processing in there. Learn the "dynamic background extraction mode". This kicks butt on vignetting. Again read ALL help files and tutorials.
3) If you have Photoshop use it with Noel Carboni's Astronomy tools. (Pixinsight will do if you do not have)
4) Have a good read of this http://www.samirkharusi.net/sub-exposures.html. This should answer some of your questions.
5) The guys and gals on CN know their stuff. Use them
Good luck. Hope to see more.
Steve
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Steve
Equinox 80ED Pro f/6.2 Refractor
WO 0.8x FF Type III
HEQ 5 Pro with SyncScan
Unmod Canon XTI
Bahtinov Mask
see my other attempts at: www.flickr.com/photos/above_the_horizon/
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ChazK
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
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Those are some of the basic questions that we all ask might I suggest http://www.saratogaskies.com/articles/cookbook/index.html That will give you the basics.
I cannot give you many pointers on M27 but M31 need about 2-3 hours of exposure to really get what your looking for. You will need short and long exposures to capture the whole thing and it is a bear to process but I took the liberty to do a "drive -by" adjustment of your jpeg. (You really need to be shooting in RAW and adjusting that) There is more there than you think....and think what 2-3 hours can get you? Be sure to study up on flats/darks, and biases.
I'd look into this next http://www.amazon.com/Photoshop-Astronomy-R-Scott-Ireland/dp/0943396859
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Tak TOA 130mm/NJP Temma2
Tak FS 60CB
Canon 40D (unmodded)
Astronomik CLS
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6
www.digitalunatic.com
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killerwolf
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 286
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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thx for the tips but some of the links are dead steve, also is it ok that you collect images from other nights? and why is it that on the corners of my photos they turn red from noise?
a question for chazk as far as shooting in raw and having more data to play with why do this? and also what would be a good Compact flash card to get for my evolt??
Also would shooting through my skyglow help the image in my slitly lp skys? or would it hinder my exposure times?
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Skywatcher syncscan HEQ5 200mm 1000mm/f
Skywatcher 80mm/400mm short tube
Orion EON 72mm
DSI pro, and Olympus 330
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killerwolf
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 286
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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Quote:
Those are some of the basic questions that we all ask might I suggest http://www.saratogaskies.com/articles/cookbook/index.html That will give you the basics.
I cannot give you many pointers on M27 but M31 need about 2-3 hours of exposure to really get what your looking for. You will need short and long exposures to capture the whole thing and it is a bear to process but I took the liberty to do a "drive -by" adjustment of your jpeg. (You really need to be shooting in RAW and adjusting that) There is more there than you think....and think what 2-3 hours can get you? Be sure to study up on flats/darks, and biases.
I'd look into this next http://www.amazon.com/Photoshop-Astronomy-R-Scott-Ireland/dp/0943396859
how did you get my image to look like that??? i tryed but i couldnt get any detail outta it.
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Skywatcher syncscan HEQ5 200mm 1000mm/f
Skywatcher 80mm/400mm short tube
Orion EON 72mm
DSI pro, and Olympus 330
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EdmontonAB
super member
Reged: 04/30/08
Posts: 174
Loc: Edmonton Alberta Canada
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Try this http://www.samirkharusi.net/
Look for "Minimal Exposures"
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Steve
Equinox 80ED Pro f/6.2 Refractor
WO 0.8x FF Type III
HEQ 5 Pro with SyncScan
Unmod Canon XTI
Bahtinov Mask
see my other attempts at: www.flickr.com/photos/above_the_horizon/
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1480
Loc: New Mexico
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Like several have said, you have two things you can do to improve the image:
1)If you're shooting short exposures, you should shoot a lot of them and stack to help reduce the noise and present more data.
2)Ultimately you'll want to shoot probably two exposure lengths, short ones to get the core detail, and long ones to bring out the arms then layer them together. This is a good process to learn, as you can use it on tons of targets out there, particularly the ones with significant variance in brightness, i.e. Orion Nebula, Andromeda, or targets that have a bright star in the field of view of a dim object.
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-Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My Messier Project Gallery
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killerwolf
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 286
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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k i was doing some reading so how many darks is recommended for Stacking? what i mean is if i shoot say 80 shots at ISO 800 and take say 3 darks one before one in the middle of the shooting and one after the 80 would that be enough for DSS to create a master Dark file??
On another side note my camera has started to show red color and lines of noise going through the image after doing 40 or up second exposures. What is this and how do you fix this problem?
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Skywatcher syncscan HEQ5 200mm 1000mm/f
Skywatcher 80mm/400mm short tube
Orion EON 72mm
DSI pro, and Olympus 330
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1480
Loc: New Mexico
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I notice the same issue in my DSI with long exposures (+60sec) if there is a lot of light pollution in the direction I'm shooting, or when the moon glow is heavy. I don't know if the issue is the same with your camera, but generally if I run shorter exposures or image in darker skies, that problem goes away for me.
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-Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My Messier Project Gallery
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killerwolf
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 286
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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hmm i guess that could be a possiblity but it also does it when i have my skyglow on would this still be the problem.
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Skywatcher syncscan HEQ5 200mm 1000mm/f
Skywatcher 80mm/400mm short tube
Orion EON 72mm
DSI pro, and Olympus 330
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